Where is MAURA MURRAY

Advocator wrote:

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Since Maura is known to have been working the security desk on that night, then she probably would have an airtight (or nearly so) alibi re personally being the driver of the car. We've been told in the past by her supervisor that aside from a short break -- during which Maura was in full view of a supervisor -- Maura had no other breaks and could not have been away from the security desk because a supervisor comes by to check the desks every 20 minutes.
It would seem to depend on how reliable the supervisor's words are. For example, "every 20 minutes" might be what is supposed to be done, but were the supervisors typically pretty lax about that? Maybe in reality they only checked the security desks once an hour. And a supervisor can't be expected to necessarily tell us that he/she "breached" the rules or knows another supervisor did on that night.

So are you saying (in a Vasi scenario) Maura would have good reason to believe that, after identifying the driver to police, that she (Maura) would not get arrested as the driver because she had an alibi?

Beagle wrote:

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Just speculating here myself...
IF Maura permitted someone she knew to take the Saturn late Thursday night, and IF the Saturn hit Vasi AND Maura was not driving or riding in the car at the time, and IF she was informed of the hit that night, not long after it happened, why could the driver rely on Maura not to tell the police what happened?
Personal loyalty to family or friends?
Fear of being physically harmed, by a secret lover or friend, for example?
Fear of the police being told by the actual driver that Maura was driving the Saturn at the time Vasi was hit?

just speculating, as well....

if, under the circumstances you describe, Vasi was hit, and Maura was notified....and i will add, notified that it was a HIT AND RUN....then

if it was a close friend/relative/romantic interest...she might be protective of that person and try to figure out an option (to report? ditch the car? keep the secret)

if it was an acquaintance...she might have also searched for options....and/or she could have been threatened by this person to remain silent

and, yes, Maura might have been threatened by the actual driver to be named as the driver

i'm thinking it's stupid to try to ditch a car anywhere, as the vin # would lead back to the owner history

and

it's not hard to imagine becoming hysterical at the news that your car has been involved in a hit and run, and that the victim may be critically injured

at the same time, that would seemingly not be an occasion to stop at the liquor store before departing on a trip under these circumstances

i think the strongest prompt to an hysterical reaction would be a hit and run with critical injury; more so than news of a confirmed pregnancy

FireCat wrote:

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Is it something as simple as Maura felt responsible because she might have lent (loaned, whatever Snowy! LOL) the car to someone who had no business driving it? Impaired, no license, no insurance, what have you? Wouldn't necessarily make Maura legally culpable, but morally responsible?

BRILLIANT!!!!

John wrote:

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This is why I add a particular emotoinal bond between MM and X in my version of this hypothesis, that for her would have conjured more complex emotoins post notification that X had hit someone. Worrying about affect of exposed affair on Rausch and dad would have been a factor too.
All speculation.

A person with whom Maura had a particular emotional bond? Maura might have had massive reservations about fingering someone like that - a secret lover, for example - but would she have feared being charged herself by LE with having hit Vasi? As a result of or in retaliation for having identified the real driver to police?

I'm in Seattle - The phone company has ALL the info - more info than most need. They can't give out that info without a subpeona and only to the requesting party - attorney le etc... What is on Wikapedia is a INCOMING call - someone calling her. You would need her phone info - identify the callers number - find out who the carrier is - contact them - have them trace back to see where they were when the call went out - which route it took. It is not always the one you are closest too - its the one that can carry the call with QoS ( that is for Ben F) he will know what that means. so there you have it.. hope that makes sense.. and it would never be in affidavit because it is really does not help the case in anyway - the call could have originated in peru and passed through londonderry........ Even though you are an attorney - my legal dept - which we do contracts with homeland security - DOD, soc security etc..provide dedicated backbone to microsoft - our lawyers know what they are taking about and they say it is not a real one and the part about the phone call really shows that its not true. but.. I am gong to contact the court house myself and see what I can find. Just in case that sliver of chance they are wrong about the affidavit... I know the call info is WRONG.. That is why I get so frustrated and can't imagine how the detectives and even LE feel when so many theorys that are not within a reasonable doubt keep going around and around.

Beagle wrote:

If Maura loaned the car to X and, after thinking it over, Maura decided to tell the police, truthfully enough, that X was driving the car when Vasi was hit and take a look at the fresh damage to the car, could X have turned right around and SUCCESSFULLY accused Maura of having driven car when Vasi was hit?
If the Saturn hit Vasi and if Maura was not the driver, was Maura TRAPPED by the actual driver's return accusation?
Did Maura have good reason to virtually know that the police would not believe her (Maura) when she told them that she (Maura) was not driving the Saturn?

Yes
Yes
and Possibly

Snowy White wrote:

i think the strongest prompt to an hysterical reaction would be a hit and run with critical injury; more so than news of a confirmed pregnancy

I agree. Vasi was left for dead and was in fact in a coma for 2 months. This was a very serious accident.

Snowy White wrote:

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it's not hard to imagine becoming hysterical at the news that your car has been involved in a hit and run, and that the victim may be critically injured
at the same time, that would seemingly not be an occasion to stop at the liquor store before departing on a trip under these circumstances
i think the strongest prompt to an hysterical reaction would be a hit and run with critical injury; more so than news of a confirmed pregnancy

About right regarding the pregnancy versus the hit and run. Sounds like Maura was pretty upset. Too bad she didn't have a roommate to console her.

Dawn wrote:

Almost to the level of quotes such as I'm not a scientist not even a scientologist.. however that one is by far my favorite. Hard to beat that one. Knock your teeth out was pretty good too. It is like watching movie over and over just the charachters change

my absolute favorite...
"who is Karma"?

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>and, yes, Maura might have been threatened by the actual driver to be named as the driver

So what?

Beagle wrote:

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A person with whom Maura had a particular emotional bond? Maura might have had massive reservations about fingering someone like that - a secret lover, for example - but would she have feared being charged herself by LE with having hit Vasi? As a result of or in retaliation for having identified the real driver to police?

I agree. Fear for herself would have been an element in her myriad of emotions under the hypothesized scenario. If she goes to police, news gets to family and Rausch. If she doesn't maybe she gets blamed if car is forensically or via witness tied to event. Whether retaliation potential would have been a factor, it seems it could have been.

I don't have a strong sense of much about this case, but I do have a strong sense that there was a man involved intimately in the circumstances leading up to the Saturn getting to 112 and OPL. Whether he also was involved her disappearance, I don't know because I still think that whatever was going on that night, the disappearance might well simply have been a wrong place at the wrong time thing.

Just my sense, right or wrong. Better said, just my guess.

Following up on my last post, I feel like the rag in the tail pipe is the center peice of the puzzle. If we knew why that was there, we would know a lot more about what happenned to get her to 112 and OPL, about what happenned in terms of her disapperance and about the connection, if any, between the two.

Snowy White wrote:

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my absolute favorite...
"who is Karma"?

Who is the maker of these quotes? Beagle. I think I remember the tooth jarring one. I thought he was talking about the roughness of the road on 112.

Suzanne wrote:

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I agree. Vasi was left for dead and was in fact in a coma for 2 months. This was a very serious accident.

This is correct. Vasi's condition was grave at first. Although he was upgraded from critical, that only means that he was stabilized, not that he was out of the woods. If it was not known by Monday night whether Vasi would live, it sure was not known a day or two earlier. SOMEone hit Vasi. There must have been a real fear by the driver that Vasi would die (as if what happened were not bad enough).

Dawn wrote:

I'm in Seattle - The phone company has ALL the info - more info than most need. They can't give out that info without a subpeona and only to the requesting party - attorney le etc... What is on Wikapedia is a INCOMING call - someone calling her. You would need her phone info - identify the callers number - find out who the carrier is - contact them - have them trace back to see where they were when the call went out - which route it took. It is not always the one you are closest too - its the one that can carry the call with QoS ( that is for Ben F) he will know what that means. so there you have it.. hope that makes sense.. and it would never be in affidavit because it is really does not help the case in anyway - the call could have originated in peru and passed through londonderry........ Even though you are an attorney - my legal dept - which we do contracts with homeland security - DOD, soc security etc..provide dedicated backbone to microsoft - our lawyers know what they are taking about and they say it is not a real one and the part about the phone call really shows that its not true. but.. I am gong to contact the court house myself and see what I can find. Just in case that sliver of chance they are wrong about the affidavit... I know the call info is WRONG.. That is why I get so frustrated and can't imagine how the detectives and even LE feel when so many theorys that are not within a reasonable doubt keep going around and around.

Thank you, this clears up a lot for me. I fully understand what you are saying. My comments about affadavits etc. were off point because I mistook the context.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>So what?

and, therefore, frightened at the prospect of being unable to defend herself, especially in light of a recent accident involving her father's car

Beagle wrote:

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This is correct. Vasi's condition was grave at first. Although he was upgraded from critical, that only means that he was stabilized, not that he was out of the woods. If it was not known by Monday night whether Vasi would live, it sure was not known a day or two earlier. SOMEone hit Vasi. There must have been a real fear by the driver that Vasi would die (as if what happened were not bad enough).

For me, with the timing, that fear connects to Maura's reaction. I find the coincidence so compelling. But who knows.

All,

I am planing on Amtraking to Boston next Thursday. Was thinking I would rent a car and drive to 112 and OPL to see things for myself.

Any suggestions on what to notice, what to look for, etc?

John wrote:

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I agree. Fear for herself would have been an element in her myriad of emotions under the hypothesized scenario. If she goes to police, news gets to family and Rausch. If she doesn't maybe she gets blamed if car is forensically or via witness tied to event. Whether retaliation potential would have been a factor, it seems it could have been.
I don't have a strong sense of much about this case, but I do have a strong sense that there was a man involved intimately in the circumstances leading up to the Saturn getting to 112 and OPL. Whether he also was involved her disappearance, I don't know because I still think that whatever was going on that night, the disappearance might well simply have been a wrong place at the wrong time thing.
Just my sense, right or wrong. Better said, just my guess.

Obviously does not answer the question. Did Maura have strong reason to believe that by identifying the real driver the police would arrest Maura as the driver?

For example, to over-simplify, just as speculation...

Maura tells police that X drove the car.

X tell police that Maura drove the car.

Police arrest Maura based on the statement by X.

John wrote:

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When I join from my office, I show as NY as our eastern region HQ and servers are in NY.

Ok. I understand that ISPs move, but that was a BIG leap. not that I think you're prevaricating, it was just weird and highly noticeable.

For instance, I can tell when Beagle--and Alden, this is not to threaten you in ANY WAY, I promise--is at his local Panera, because when *I* posted from *my* local Panera last fall, I found out that their server is in Connorsville IN.

Beagle, hope you were having something tasty. I'm awful fond of their chocolate pastries.....yum!