Where is MAURA MURRAY

While the above post,#15139, has some merit in the questions posed, it is an example of ineffective communication.
The poster concludes with two emotionally charged statements/judgments before the questions can even be considered and answered.

Here are two quoted texts written by mcsmom at the "new" forum site. For someone asking such "innocent" questions, she surely is doing a lot of backpedaling.

"PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 20

I wonder what Judge Vaughn/Cyr would say about dangling the prized "on going" investigative work via White Wash for all the World to see on the Internet.

How pathetic.

The Father takes the only legal recourse he can to gain access to these records, and was denied in a court of law.

What did you have to do White Wash?"
********

"Just to clairfy a few facts. If one does not follow the procedure similar to that of the "soup nazi", chances are you will not be granted an audience in Haverhill.
Members of the investigative task force themselves have been turned away for simply failing the etiquette of proper sequence when introducing themselves.

True story folks.

And so, with extraordinary curiosity, born from the travails of those most intimately, and directly involved in Maura's case, I will again pose the question:

What did you have to do White Wash?

oink. oink."

suzanne wrote:

Squaw Walk - I find this phrase course, vulgar, crude, insulting, degrading, sexist and racist. Unlike certain people here I am neither an FM worshipper or defender but I find it very hard to believe that ANY father would ever say this about his missing daughter. Did someone actually hear/overhear Fred say this? Where did the report of him saying this originate? If Fred actually did say this then it puts a completely different complexion on this case. Disregarding the vulgarity, I would still have to wonder wherever he would have gotten the idea that his daughter would commit suicide? I linked here and on MM an anniversary piece (Fox44) in which a local (NH) is interviewed and says "i think she had a fight with her father and ran away to start a new life." Why I should be influenced by this 'man in the street' opinion, I do not know but it hit me in a certain way, it just seemed to have the ring of truth about it. Coupling this with the cruel squaw walk statement (IF he actually did say it) changes everything for me.

Suzanne,

Check White Wash's Topix message # 8426 at page 419, where White Wash quotes from an article in the Journal Opinion regarding an interview with HPD.

Here's the quote.

"Smith was able to speak to Fred Murray at 8 p.m. on Feb. 10. In the initial, official police statement, Fred Murray stated that his daughter, Maura, was depressed and he was fearful for her safety. He informed Smith that she had an accident in Hadley, MA on Feb.7, 2004, wrecking another vehicle of his and totaling thousands of dollar's worth of damage.

Murray told Smith that he hoped Maura wasn't doing the "old squaw walk" which Murray explained was something the two of them often joked about. The squaw walk referred to when it came time for the old Indians to die, they would walk off into the woods and die. Fred Murray requested that HPD call in the FBI, state police and a search began immediately for his daughter."

Fred

Suzanne,

Here's another reference to the Fred Murray's "squaw walk" remark to Sgt Smith. This is Quija's Topix message # 10116 at page 503,

"Fred's reaction to Maura's disappearance --- What I've read here made me think that since he spoke with her around 11:20PM Sunday night before she left that he might've had an inkling of SOMEthing... something more than writing accident reports...

Whatever that inkling was, Fred has sadly and relentlessly searched the area around the abandoned Saturn, extending outward for a good distance.

This brings up lots of ideas, including Fred knowing Maura well enough to know where she might've run off to in order to get away for a bit.

It also makes me wonder (this will be controversial) if he was between shifts in Bridgeport, CT and arrived in Amherst, MA (by 4:30PM Monday) to drive in tandem with Maura for some reason, like getting rid of the Saturn?.(Was the Saturn used by some driver and involved in the Petrit Vasi hit and run?) If so, if they were driving together in 2 vehicles, and if at some point he noticed Maura wasn't in his sight anymore, maybe he turned around to see what happened and arrived upon a scene with the Saturn and SBD in bus, or a little later and Maura gone! What the heck do you do in that case? I don't know what I'd do if I was protecting a loved one or my family and I felt the Saturn might (after one or two skidding accidents in NH) still have evidence of a hit and run. I don't know if I'd talk to the officer at the scene. I don't know if I'd drive back to Bridgeport for my next shift, believing Maura being smart and resourceful found a place to stay overnight. The posts I've read here led me to this, including the fact (?) LE had been trying to reach Fred over a 20-hour period from Monday evening to Tuesday late afternoon. Fred returned the call at 6PM Tuesday and the police log (if correct) indicated Fred was frantic --- as anyone would be in that situation.)

This would explain his initial fear logged in the police report that Maura may have run off ("old squaw walk") to end her life. It would explain him stating Maura was endangered. And, sadly, later, when she didn't contact her close family, it would explain the shock of realizing it was also possible she was abducted during that small window of time. Far-fetched scenario? I don't know... but it's the same huge pain for a father.

It's what dads do --- help their kids. Did Fred try to help Maura with this problem?

Last upsetting thought: With my family having alcoholism in its genes, if, as primary sources have said, the same is true in Maura's family... maybe with everyone trying to "help" Maura, she ran from the "threat" of rehab? I'm not trying to slander anyone -- we all have "stuff".

I hope I don't submit this post."

Fred

http://whitmanhansonexpress.com/index.php...

"Maura Murray’s father is calling a recent newspaper report about his daughter’s disappearance a “whitewash” and “pure fiction.”
The report, published Feb. 13, 2008 in the Journal Opinion of New Hampshire and entitled “Police Defend Procedure in Murray case,” does appear to contradict some established facts of the case.

Also in the article, Haverhill officer Cecil Smith says Murray told him Maura was “depressed” over a previous accident and that he hoped she wasn’t “doing the old squaw walk,” a euphemism for suicide. Murray denies saying his daughter was depressed and claims the squaw comment was taken out of context.

Murray called the article a “whitewash” and believes the police are simply covering their tracks. He pointed out the paper made no attempts to contact him for his side of the story." "

White Wash, you didn't contact Mr. Murray for your article?

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
Suzanne,
Check White Wash's Topix message # 8426 at page 419, where White Wash quotes from an article in the Journal Opinion regarding an interview with HPD.
Here's the quote.
"Smith was able to speak to Fred Murray at 8 p.m. on Feb. 10. In the initial, official police statement, Fred Murray stated that his daughter, Maura, was depressed and he was fearful for her safety. He informed Smith that she had an accident in Hadley, MA on Feb.7, 2004, wrecking another vehicle of his and totaling thousands of dollar's worth of damage.
Murray told Smith that he hoped Maura wasn't doing the "old squaw walk" which Murray explained was something the two of them often joked about. The squaw walk referred to when it came time for the old Indians to die, they would walk off into the woods and die. Fred Murray requested that HPD call in the FBI, state police and a search began immediately for his daughter."
Fred

The key phrase here, assuming the quote is accurate, is that Murray explained the old squaw walk was "...something the two of them often joked about."
The father is desperately seeking answers, IN HIS OWN MIND, to the sudden and unexplained disappearance of his daughter.
His consideration of past conversations re "the old squaw walk" was one possibility of many.
For his sake, it is unfortunate it was uttered at all, as its significance seems greater than he perhaps intended.

Bottom line is that if, indeed, she successfully committed suicide, her body has not been discovered in a period of 5 years.

Suzanne,

I might as well post White Wash’s four-part message that references the “squaw walk” comment as it is the scoop that is the subject matter that gave birth to the present disagreement between mcsmom and White Wash. I will start with her message 8423 at page 419, which preceded her four-part post.

"While still on scene, Smith requested that Grafton County Dispatch call the residence listed with the car's registration and to inform local hospitals to be on the lookout for a young woman with a description supplied by one of the witnesses. This broadcast was put out to responding units and the dispatch center called Fred Murray's residence in Massachusetts and left a message. At 7:57 p.m., according to Grafton County Dispatch, Woodsville's Fire Rescue Pumper Truck arrived with the department's officers."

The entire Journal Opinion interview with HPD.

Part 1 (Message 8424 at page 419)

“Though four years have now passed, the location and date of Maura Murray's disappearance are still etched in the memory of North Country residents: Route 112 in Haverhill on Feb. 9, 2004.
It is a mystery what happened to Murray after the 21-year-old woman crashed her car and disappeared. And four years of searches, investigations and speculation have seen leads turn to deadends and a family and small New Hampshire town get caught in the middle of a tragic mystery. After four years of speculation about the Maura Murray case, the law enforcement agencies involved want to speak out about the investigation and assure the public that procedures and policies that are used for any investigation were followed in the Maura Murray case.
Haverhill Police Chief Jeff Williams always strives to get the focus back to what is the most important question in this case, "Where is Maura Murray?"
In an interview, Williams took the opportunity to remind the public of the facts from the original case. For Williams, it is important to note that the Haverhill Police Department as well as all the law enforcement involved, handled the investigation according to regular procedure and protocol from day one. And he says that the investigation has been handled properly since Haver Police Department responded to the initial calls about a car accident in Swiftwater.
Williams said that Haverhill Police Department did all they could the night of the accident. Standard procedures were followed and photographs and documentation were made of everything that they found that night. The only thing he said he wished was different that night was that they could have made contact with the Murray family the night of the accident.”

Part 2 (Message # 8425 at page 419)
“As part of an interview with Williams, the Haverhill Police Department provided the following timeline of the early stages of the investigation into the car accident:

On Feb. 9 at 7:29p.m., a 911 call was placed by residents on Wild Ammonoosuc Road about a motor vehicle accident. At 7:46 p.m., Grafton County Dispatch received a call that Sgt. Cecil Smith arrived at the scene. Smith found the vehicle locked and without a driver. He had dispatch run the license plate for the black 1996 Saturn 4-door. He was informed that the car was owned by Fred Murray of Weymouth, MA.
During the first stages of the investigation into the accident, photographs were taken of tire tracks in the snow leading into a stand of trees on the side of the road and showed that the vehicle struck the trees with enough impact to deploy both airbags. Williams noted that taking photographic evidence and documentation at the scene of an accident are standard operating procedure.
Smith later began to question neighbors about the accident. After questioning a school bus driver who stopped to enquire if Maura needed assistance, Smith learned that a woman in her 20's had been seen at the vehicle. According to a statement given the police, the witness stated the woman's speech was slurred and she had to hold on to something while she stood.
"She begged me not to call police," according to the witness' statement

While still on scene, Smith requested that Grafton County Dispatch call the residence listed with the car's registration and to inform local hospitals to be on the lookout for a young woman with a description supplied by one of the witnesses. This broadcast was put out to responding units and the dispatch center called Fred Murray's residence in Massachusetts and left a message. At 7:57 p.m., according to Grafton County Dispatch, Woodsville's Fire Rescue Pumper Truck arrived with the department's officers. They were holding a monthly meeting when they received a call about a car accident in Swiftwater.
cont. JO article
They first cleared the car of any leaking fluids. Woodsville Fire Chief Brad Kennedy said that it is standard procedure with any vehicle accident called in to 911 that fire rescue are dispatched autimatically. There is only one person authorized to turn around a fire department responding to a call-the fire chief.
Once it was ascertained that the driver of the vehicle was not at the scend, Haverhill Police Department, New Hampshire State Police, fire and EMS personnel along with several neighbors began a brief search of the area surrounding Route 112 and Bradley Hill Road.”

Part 3 (Message # 8426 at page 419),

“A local towing company was called in to remove the vehicle, which according to Williams is part of police policy to impound and store in locked facilities any and all evidence. Upon removal of the vehicle from the accident scene, Smith retrieved a Coca-Cola soda bottle with a strong odor of alcohol which was filed as evidence.
At 9:26 p.m., Smith was dispatched to Pike and left the area. Later that evening, at 11 p.m., Smith made a second attempt to phone the residence of Fred Murray, owner of the vehicle, listed on the Department of Motor Vehicle records. He left a second message that the Haverhill Police Department needed to speak with the car's owner.
About the same time, at 11 p.m., Cpl. Byron Charles and Officer Mac Cashin assisted Smith in the accident investigation as well as working on securing a search warrant for the black 1996 Saturn that was now impounded.
The following day on Feb 10, at 9:30 a.m., a search warrant was issued by Judge Timothy McKenna of Haverhill District Court to search the impounded black 1996 Saturn. Charles and Cashin then completed a search of the vehicle.
At approximately 1:30 p.m., a be-on-the-lookout (BOL) communique was issued throughout Vermont, New Hampshire and Massachusetts for Maura Murray.
At 3:30 p.m., Smith returned to duty and called Weymouth Police Department requesting they check the residence listed on the DMV information. They still had not heard from Fred Murray. Weymouth PD instead directed Smith to contact Laurie Murray's phone number.At 3:40 p.m., Smith spoke to Laurie Murray who informed him that the black Saturn belonged to her ex-husband Fred Murray but is driven by their daughter Maura. Laurie gave Smith the number to Maura's cell phone and to her dorm at the University of Massachusetts. Right after that conversation, Smith again tried Fred Murray's phone number and left another message. He also spoke with Hanson Police Department again at 3:51 p.m.
Smith called Maura Murray's sister, Kathleen Murray at 4:40 p.m. requesting a photo of Maura. Kathleen said she would email one to Haverhill Police Department.
At 6 p.m., Grafton County Dispatch was contacted by Fred Murray. And at 7 p.m., Smith called the University of Massachusetts (UM) campus security and requested that they check Maura Murray's dorm room.
Smith was able to speak to Fred Murray at 8 p.m. on Feb. 10. In the initial, official police statement, Fred Murray stated that his daughter, Maura, was depressed and he was fearful for her safety. He informed Smith that she had an accident in Hadley, MA on Feb.7, 2004, wrecking another vehicle of his and totaling thousands of dollar's worth of damage.
Murray told Smith that he hoped Maura wasn't doing the "old squaw walk" which Murray explained was something the two of them often joked about. The squaw walk referred to when it came time for the old Indians to die, they would walk off into the woods and die. Fred Murray requested that HPD call in the FBI, state police and a search began immediately for his daughter.
I will be right back, theres just one more section)....Anne JO article continued)
At 8.25 p.m., Haverhill Police called fish and game authorities to advise of them of a missing person situation and possible search as it had just become apparent that they may have an endangered/missing person.”

Part 4 (Message # 8427 at page 419):
“Haverhill Police Department received a call at 8:40 p.m. from UM campus security to report Maura Murray's belongings were all packed in her dorm room. Campus security had evidencce that she was last seen Sunday morning by a fellow student and that she was carrying a backpack, box of wine and a large hockey bag of beer. Fish and game informed the HPD at 9 p.m. that if the driver was not located by the morning of Feb 11, they would begin a search at daylight.
The next day on Feb 11, fish and game officers, state police, local police, along with family and friends of Maura Murray began one of the first of many searches at the Wild Ammonoosuc Road accident site.
Williams said he contacted the FBI early on and he, the FBI, New Hampshire State Police and UM campus security all met in Keene to confer about the investigation.
After four years of searches and heartache, no answers have been found. It is heart-wrenching for family members, friends and the community where the accident occurred that Maura's whereabouts are not known.
Still, the investigation continues and it will remain open until Maura Murray is found. Scarinza said that there is still the possibility that someday this could possibly become a criminal case.
"If that is where the evidence leads us," he said. "There has been such a push by some to have the case become open to the public. This would totally jeopardize any good investigation done by all agencies involved and who, in reality, would that serve justice to? Certainly not Miss Maura Murray." If you have any information about Maura Murray or the night of the accident, please contact NHSP Troop F at xxxxxxx or the Haverhill Police Department at XXXXXXX”

Fred

--- Forwarded message from "John Scarinza" ---

>Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:49:55 -0500
>From: "John Scarinza" <>
>To: <Kelly.>
>Subject: Re: Thank You

Kelly,

I just spoke with the Chief and he is all set on your meeting with him tomorrow...

thanks, John

>>> Kelly > 01/30/08 02:06PM >>>
Lt. Scarinza,
Thank You so much for speaking with me on
the Maura Murray case.

----------

White Wash posted this e-mail correspondence on the other forum.

White Wash, it was your article right? You were the one who conducted the interviews and wrote the JO article published Feb 13, 2008 right?

But Mr. Murray was never contacted/interviewed?

I am by no means trying to pick a fight or put you on the spot. I am just, personally, trying to get the facts straight in my brain.

LogicalSong wrote:

<quoted text>
White Wash, I really hate to be a party pooper or whatever, but your posting skills leave a whole lot of something to be desired. "I've yet to see two rights make a right" ... what is that supposed to mean? What is "a divided a force well needed"? What is "Murrays noble"?
Did you attend school after the second grade? Didja ever hear of a COMMA? Your posts are so messed up that I can't make sense of them. I get the vitriol and that's it. Maybe that is your only point.

Yo. Not everyone has super-duper writing or verbal communication skills. Can you take a photo that's as good as WW's? Can you sing? Dance? Paint? Furthermore, this is a web forum. sometimes people don't bother to proofread as carefully. You've never had a typo?

Yes, sometimes WW's posts are hard to read, and she's acknowledged that in the past (the phrase "I speak blond" comes to mind, and always makes me laugh.) What I have found is that if you ask her politely (the key word here is POLITELY) to try to explain herself, she will do so to the best of her ability. As I said, I've had issues with understanding what she's said sometimes, and whenever I've asked her, she's worked to try to clarify what she's saying. I don't always agree with what she's trying to say, LOL, but insulting someone doesn't help!

White Wash, like everyone else, gets less and less concerned about coming across clearly when she's angry, and she's been very hurt and insulted recently. Lord knows *I* don't make any sense when I'm in a screaming match with someone face-to-face.

You know, LogicalSong, I don't think I've ever heard you say a nice word about anyone, and I'm not even sure I've heard you say anything that relates to Maura. Seems to me most of your posts are to insult people. What's that about?

White Wash and I haven't always gotten along, but it seems to me that lately she's taken a bit of a beating that isn't deserved.

White Wash wrote:

I'd go back to the Mr. Murray's first press conference which I couldn't figure out why
it was held in Bethlem until DC last posts.
More pieces to the puzzle.
<quoted text>

Wait, help me out here. My brain isn't working properly yet, despite the caffeine infusion, and I'm not making that connection. Hunh???

firecat...you can stroke WW ego to pump her for info on your own time.....leave me out of it.

Boy you all were pretty heated this weekend.

If it was not for beagle's riddles - I probably would SOB.. thought we all agreed to not - do this after I apologised to Mason/Fred.

Can we try to place nice?

While I'm at it, I'll point out that the JO article recounting what Sgt Smith did to investigate this case seems quite professional to me and his efforts to contact Fred Murray, who was the registered owner of the Saturn with a home address in Weymouth, MA, appear to be responsible and persistent. I believe he expended more effort to contact Fred Murray than most police officers would have in similar circumstances.

Fred Murray accused the Haverhill Police Department of not expending sufficient effort in timely fashion to search for Maura and contact him, but that does not appear to be the case, assuming the information in the article is correct. Sgt Smith attempted to contact the registered owner of the Saturn and the only information he had was that the owner was someone named Fred Murray with an address in Weymouth, MA. Unfortunately, Mr. Murray was living in Bridgeport, CT, and it took awhile to track him down.

I believe Mr. Murray's accusatory and confrontational response was grossly inappropriate under the circumstances because if anyone was to blame for the delay in contacting him, Mr. Murray only needed to look in a mirror to identify that person.

Based on the scent trail followed by the dog, we have reason to believe that Maura caught a ride from the scene before Sgt Smith arrived. Therefore, what could he possibly have done that would have made any difference finding Maura?

This is why I do not understand Mr. Murray's attitude. Yes, he was upset, as any parent would be under the circumstances, but why did he not only launch an attack against HPD, but continue blaming them for Maura's disappearance. At some point, one would think he would pause and reflect on his inappropriate conduct and seek to heal his relationship with LE, but that hasn't happened and I doubt that it ever will.

As a former criminal defense attorney who made a living exposing and attacking police negligence and misconduct, I doubt anyone would consider me to be biased in favor of law enforcement. Nevertheless, I think Sgt Smith and HPD did an exemplary job and to the extent that they might have searched more quickly and thoroughly, I don't believe it would have made any difference.

Unfortunately, the die is cast. HPD and the NHSP obviously detest Mr. Murray and will make no effort to communicate with him. I am not surprised because it looks like he asked for it. If the NHSP is professional, and I do not know if it is, it will not allow a strong prejudice against Mr. Murray to affect the investigation. We will never know if it did.

Fred

Mason wrote:

While I'm at it, I'll point out that the JO article recounting what Sgt Smith did to investigate this case seems quite professional to me and his efforts to contact Fred Murray, who was the registered owner of the Saturn with a home address in Weymouth, MA, appear to be responsible and persistent. I believe he expended more effort to contact Fred Murray than most police officers would have in similar circumstances.
Fred Murray accused the Haverhill Police Department of not expending sufficient effort in timely fashion to search for Maura and contact him, but that does not appear to be the case, assuming the information in the article is correct. Sgt Smith attempted to contact the registered owner of the Saturn and the only information he had was that the owner was someone named Fred Murray with an address in Weymouth, MA. Unfortunately, Mr. Murray was living in Bridgeport, CT, and it took awhile to track him down.
I believe Mr. Murray's accusatory and confrontational response was grossly inappropriate under the circumstances because if anyone was to blame for the delay in contacting him, Mr. Murray only needed to look in a mirror to identify that person.

Holy crap Mason.

Talk like this will not stand you in good steed with most of the posters here.

You are correct, but correct has little to do with many of what the posters here want.

Bill

From Wikipedia:

The "Couldn't Stand the Weather" tour is a concert tour by guitarist Stevie Ray Vaughan. The tour started on February 4 of 1984 with a television appearance on Charlie Daniels Volunteer Jam and ended on December 31, 1984 at Astro Arena in Houston, TX. One of the highlights of this tour is the famous Carnegie Hall show.

White Wash
I don't even think I can read anymore.

For an employee of a local paper

To say "one girl"

I am at a lost for words. That ONE girl has a name - her name is Maura Murray - a beatiful, daughter, sister, neice and granddaughter.

I have not used this word - from memory.
****
I am offically disgusted and surprised you didn't get a lashing from Beagle.
***
Because watch out - when he is pissed - watch out.
I think I have said enough.
****
Again - shame on you. People are trying to find that ONE GIRL - named Maura Murray.. God forbid something happen to your family. I sure hope you get the support of people that don't even know you. Or maybe - they will just dismiss you as - one girl( YOU )- big deal.. Who cares ? I doubt you would want that.