Where is MAURA MURRAY

We don't know for a fact that Maura and Fred were going car shopping that weekend. Where did that fact come from? Guess it's not "a fact".

It was said Fred showed up that weekend for car hunting, but we don't know for sure it wasn't for another crisis.....

What are the chances that the Saturn really was towed 150 miles north, with Maura's keepsakes in it????... but it just seems too VISIBLE a thing to do, doesn't it?

It's a whole new game now starting from scratch in terms of facts....

Hi Quija,

You´re right, of course. The supposed car shopping by Maura and her father cannot be regarded as "fact".

What if the Saturn after all was towed north from Amherst?
Imagine if the perhaps privately-owned pick-up/towing-truck somehow "lost" the Saturn due to some severe frost heaves on the Rt112 in or near Swiftwater = the place of the first reported "mystery" accident?

Perhaps the original plan was to tow the Saturn even further east on rte112, possibly staging it somewhere in the vast wilderness of the White Mtns National Forest between Swiftwater and Lincoln.

Maura´s objects left in the Saturn have always, according to the descriptions I´ve read, left me with a feeling of an artificial "stage-set".
I may be wrong, of course, but that´s my gut feeling here.

Quija & all,
what are your opinions about this?

whiston wrote:

hi all, what if Maura called the Salamones in Bartlett N.H. to speak with someone that she was meeting there and not to get a room.did the Salamones have a condo for rent or run a whole resort.if Maura dug up there number, how, was it on her computer search, in her phone .was it on the bookmark in her book 'lost without peril' found in the car Sharon Rausch did not mention any calls to information found on Mauras phone bill.what about the phone call that Maura made to a dorm on campus that was deemed a dead end.Lots of 'deeming of not being important' going on on the old site.i cannot take credit for these questions.take care philip

Deemed a dead end does not equal deemed unimportant.

You mentioned "the bookmark in the book Not Without Peril." It states in several news stories that she was using a picture of her younger brother as a bookmark, so no.

WeWii wrote:

If I was over seas, and the person I love and want to spend the rest of my life with was missing. I would be as involved in it a much as I could be. Meanwhile, hating the fact I could not be stateside to help out in the continuing effort. But in my personal mind that would drive me to stay more vigilant and alert so I could hopefully see that person again someday. It could be a distraction. But then again, like I said I would feed on the hope that she woud be found.

WeWii, the beauty of different people in this world (and one of the reasons this forum can be so successful) is that different people have different emotions, reactions, and responses. You've just told us what YOU would do if YOUR beloved was missing. The simple fact that Billy responded differently does not make him suspicious, or worthy of judgment as "uncaring". It simply means he is a different person, with different ways of responding to his emotions. And the truth of the matter is also that we none of us ever know how we'd respond to a tragic situation until it's upon us. We can theorize all we'd like, but we don't really know. I hope you never have to find out what you'd do--I hope none of us do. I wish Billy hadn't.

[QUOTE who="Eurobserver]Maura´s objects left in the Saturn have always, according to the descriptions I´ve read, left me with a feeling of an artificial "stage-set".
I may be wrong, of course, but that´s my gut feeling here.
Quija & all,
what are your opinions about this?[/QUOTE]

To a certain extent, yes, but not necessarily a stage set by someone who knew Maura well, if at all. There were very personal things left behind that don't seem to make any sense to someone who knew her.(I'm thinking of the jewelry, which was from Billy, and Joseph the monkey in particular.)

Oh crap, I can't seem to navigate the backspace button tonight. Sorry about that quoting fubar.

Eurobserver wrote:

Remember, Sergeant CS of Haverhill PD asking "Where is the girl with the rag in the tail-pipe" or something similar when looking for Maura (?) at the Weathered Barn incident site.
This clearly implies that CS must surely have been seen Maura (or whoever) at the site of the first "mystery" accident some approx. 20-30 minutes earlier.
Questions:
a)Where did that first accident take place and why no known public witnesses? Several cars must have passed by the scene if it happened on the 112 and even more so on the 10/302.

I don't know about Putney, VT being any part of the whole equation, seems far-fetched to me to then have the Saturn towed back to the Swiftwater area. Plus there is the time-frame ... If we assume she left Amherst around 4:30 PM that day, then Maura had just about enough time to drive from Amherst to the site the Saturn was found at the TIME it was found.

Re where the first accident may have occurred. One thought I've had is that since the Saturn could not have been driven very far at all with its headlights so far out of kilter, the earlier accident might have occurred in the vicinity of the Bunga Road/Rt. 112 intersection. The woman RO who was walking on Bunga Road when the red pickup truck slowed down and then stopped after passing her, went on up Bunga, turned onto Rt. 112 and walked down to the Stage Stop store. If the red pickup was involved in any way with the first accident, might be why the driver/s appeared to be "looking for someone" in that Bunga Road area.

Firecat, wanted to agree with you but had a warning from moderator in an immediate way. It is almost like someone read as I typed....interesting!

FireCat,

Your comments regarding the reported contents of the Saturn make sense in the context of where the car ended up at the Weathered Barn curve.
I agree that it would seem strange that Maura would leave her jewellery from Billy and Joseph the Monkey in the car.

But what if the hypothetical towing-truck were to have towed the Saturn much further east, deep into the wilds of the White Mountains National Park between Swiftwater & Lincoln?
Perhaps Maura would then have had more than enough time to transfer her most cherished objects from the Saturn to the towing-truck before leaving the Saturn in the wilds of the woods.
If for some reason that hypothetical original plan was scuppered due to the towing-truck perhaps "dropping" the Saturn by accident a few miles west of the Weathered Barn, then Maura might understandably have been in such a state that everything was thrown into chaos. The main point being to get away from the Saturn as soon as possible in a situation when every second was of importance.

Now, Maura may well not have been the lady seen by the SBD by the Wéathered Barn. The witness statements by the SBD are too vague and changable here to be of much use in determining the ID of the lady driver of the Saturn.

Also: if it was indeed Maura who was seen there by the SBD, she could have been blackmailed/forced/coerced into such a scheme for whatever reason by an unknown person/persons.

Please note:
I´m in no way whatsoever blaming Maura for such a hypothetical scenario.
In my mind, she is clearly a victim of some vicious circumstances whatever may have happened.

quija wrote:

It was said Fred showed up that weekend for car hunting, but we don't know for sure it wasn't for another crisis.....

Yeah, that sort of crossed my mind, too.

1Anne wrote:

Firecat, wanted to agree with you but had a warning from moderator in an immediate way. It is almost like someone read as I typed....interesting!

Du-what, now????

quija wrote:

What are the chances that the Saturn really was towed 150 miles north, with Maura's keepsakes in it????... but it just seems too VISIBLE a thing to do, doesn't it?

I sort of doubt the staged scenario. I don't see the exertion being worth the benefit. All they had to do was ditch the car and Maura's nowhere to be found. Beyond that, it sounds too complicated.

Does anyone know when the contents that were found in the Saturn were last somewhere else? Is it possible that the jewelry, gloves, monkey were in the car for a week or two?

Perhaps Maura was going away for a couple of days with someone she knew but for a purpose she did not know. So thinking she was going to stay with a friend in a hotel or something, she brought along her ususal things.

Euro, also re: Joseph the Monkey, I cannot cannot cannot figure out why they chose to scent off leather gloves that looked (indeed were) new, when they had a well-loved and slept-with monkey AND RUNNING CLOTHES. Like Maura, I'm a runner.(slower by far, but a runner nonetheless.) No matter how much detergent you use, your running clothes will always smell like your running clothes. As will your stuffed monkey.

Even if, as has been pointed out here, leather is a good tool for scenting (is it really? I've not been able to confirm this. I know they use squares of leather for training scent dogs, but what scent is applied?) when you've got such obviously personally scented objects.....I just can't get my brain around that.

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't know about Putney, VT being any part of the whole equation, seems far-fetched to me to then have the Saturn towed back to the Swiftwater area. Plus there is the time-frame ... If we assume she left Amherst around 4:30 PM that day, then Maura had just about enough time to drive from Amherst to the site the Saturn was found at the TIME it was found.
Re where the first accident may have occurred. One thought I've had is that since the Saturn could not have been driven very far at all with its headlights so far out of kilter, the earlier accident might have occurred in the vicinity of the Bunga Road/Rt. 112 intersection. The woman RO who was walking on Bunga Road when the red pickup truck slowed down and then stopped after passing her, went on up Bunga, turned onto Rt. 112 and walked down to the Stage Stop store. If the red pickup was involved in any way with the first accident, might be why the driver/s appeared to be "looking for someone" in that Bunga Road area.

I agree the Putney towing is unlikely. Just thought I'd see whether it rang a bell with anyone else who might have some info to add.

A possible "issue" with the red pickup seems like a good possibility. Maybe Maura was tailgating the truck, and the driver of the truck slapped on the brakes? Maybe the nose of the Saturn went under the back of the pickup? Sort of a setting for a conflict?

FireCat,

I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding the seemingly absurd use of Maura´s new leather gloves in connection with the tracker dog(s).
As you rightly say, why not use Joseph the Monkey or Maura´s running clothes???
Like you and so many others I simply can not understand this, even less explain it.
The choice of the new leather gloves was incompetent at best and at worst - well, we may all guess here....

And now, I´m bidding you all a good night.

Oh, speaking earlier of the storage unit set-up biz, I noticed tonight there's a couple in town from Delaware whom I met almost two years ago at a Brattleboro storage unit facility right after they had transported stuff north from the Philadelphia and Greenwich CT areas up to Brat to be sold in a local auction.(Never, ever sell near where the stuff came from.) Dark slate-blue Ford expedition, Delaware tags, with a U-Haul trailer. Trailer had Ontario reg plate M12-082. Were parked here on the 200 block of Federal St for a while.

The Brattleboro storage unit owner I knew held the paper on the Bowman property from which Tina and Bethany Sinclair are believed to have disappeared in February, 2001.

So weird to buy things at the local auctions that have so many connections to missing or murdered people. Not sure why that happens. I'll never forget being offered practically a library of books that had previously belonged to a convicted ex-priest rapist from the Worcester Diocese. Really gave me the chills, especially when I discovered that he was in frequent contact with people searching for Molly Bish. Very weird world.

And then I found out recently that the Springfield RC Diocese gave - totally free - in 1980 a building lot in Chicopee Falls to the brother of the woman who was imitating Frank Kelly on YouTube. Their father had shot their mother to death at a truck stop about 16 years earlier.(Ooops, I think I already posted this. Sorry.) The mother was getting ready, with the assistance of her neighbors, the Monahans, to leave her husband. Horrible story. The appeal is online. She is also investigating the Molly Bish case. She has worked for my brother's best friend's jet charter company, Key Air, the biz that bribed Gov. John G. Rowland out of office and into federal prison in 2004/2005. Ex-military, close quarters combat training, bartender in Amherst area... Sorry if I've mentioned this before.

I mean, the rapist was getting phone calls from the Worcester County HOC, then calling the search and rescue group that was searching for Molly Bish right at the same time Molly Bish's bathing suit was found. And Molly Bish's father actually endorsed this search and rescue group on a video produced by Limulous [Productions?]. And Mr. Bish a Worcester County parole officer, had practically worked at the Worcester County HOC himself. Weird, weird world. Seven degrees, I guess.

BeagleBart wrote:

<quoted text>
I sort of doubt the staged scenario. I don't see the exertion being worth the benefit. All they had to do was ditch the car and Maura's nowhere to be found. Beyond that, it sounds too complicated.
Does anyone know when the contents that were found in the Saturn were last somewhere else? Is it possible that the jewelry, gloves, monkey were in the car for a week or two?
Perhaps Maura was going away for a couple of days with someone she knew but for a purpose she did not know. So thinking she was going to stay with a friend in a hotel or something, she brought along her ususal things.

Beagle, it's my understanding that Maura routinely slept with Joseph the monkey (thus it being a good choice for scenting) and I think I recall that she also wore the jewelry regularly; in any case, it wouldn't have been wise to leave it in a car in a university parking lot.

For all I know, the gloves may have been there for a while, but I doubt the other two. Again, don't know this for sure.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Beagle, it's my understanding that Maura routinely slept with Joseph the monkey (thus it being a good choice for scenting) and I think I recall that she also wore the jewelry regularly; in any case, it wouldn't have been wise to leave it in a car in a university parking lot.
For all I know, the gloves may have been there for a while, but I doubt the other two. Again, don't know this for sure.

Thanks. Then it makes sense that Maura believed she was at least going to stay overnight somewhere other than her dorm room.

FireCat wrote:

Euro, also re: Joseph the Monkey, I cannot cannot cannot figure out why they chose to scent off leather gloves that looked (indeed were) new, when they had a well-loved and slept-with monkey AND RUNNING CLOTHES. Like Maura, I'm a runner.(slower by far, but a runner nonetheless.) No matter how much detergent you use, your running clothes will always smell like your running clothes. As will your stuffed monkey.
Even if, as has been pointed out here, leather is a good tool for scenting (is it really? I've not been able to confirm this. I know they use squares of leather for training scent dogs, but what scent is applied?) when you've got such obviously personally scented objects.....I just can't get my brain around that.

As to your earlier post. I do agree and dislike the fact anyone would ever have to go through those feelings. I guess I figured more people feel and would react the way I would. but as to your question, I am not sure how good leather is for scenting. I just know that trapper don't wear leather boots or leather gloves when running or setting traps because the scent retaining ability that leather has. But then again, that could just be ones person procedure.