Where is MAURA MURRAY

Maura Murray in Amherst and Fred's Saturn in Haverhill are two very different locations.

What's troubling to some of us is the repeated tendency to blur these facts when better is known. Repeated blurring of these facts keeps the dialogue going in circles.

WTF and I are not splitting hairs. We are trying to keep important facts straight.

Hi NorthernLight,

In a previous post you very kindly asked whether there were things which you may be able to assist with as regards Maura´s case.
With you being in the Waterbury area of Vermont I presume that you perhaps might be familar with the reported sighting of a Maura look-alike (calling herself "Raykel") in the Church of Solid Rock Assembly of God in Barton, VT, on Fathers Day in June 2005.
There are conflicting accounts as to whether "Raykel" actually signed the visitors book of the church or not.
My thought is that if "Raykel" actually did sign the visitors book it should be possible to compare her handwriting with that of Maura´s, in order to rule this possible sighting of Maura in or out.
The question is:
Is there a signature of the mysterious "Raykel" in the church´s visitors book, or not?
I would be more than willing to call the church myself, but being Swedish and having lived for some time in England my accent is rather one of "British" English.
From a psychological point of view I´m sure that whoever replies at the Barton church in question would feel much more at ease speaking with a caller who actually speaks American.
The phone number for the Barton, VT, church is:
(Six Zero Three)- Five Two Five - Three Eight Eight Eight.(Number must be spelled out like this due to Topix rules).
I´m sure we would all here be extremely grateful indeed were you possibly willing to do this potentially vital "detective work" on behalf of Maura.
Warmest thanks!
Euro

gvmeabrk wrote:

BeagleBart, I am not loking for anyone's 401-K or small or large feet. Sorry I asked. Gee!
Now, back to Maura.

Whoa, there. No one said you were gold-digging. Or looking for Big Foot. Joke. Small joke. Nothing there to take so seriously. Sorry if that wasn't clear. But thanks for the thought (ooops, joke, small joke, nothing serious).

Eurobserver wrote:

Hi NorthernLight,
In a previous post you very kindly asked whether there were things which you may be able to assist with as regards Maura´s case.
With you being in the Waterbury area of Vermont I presume that you perhaps might be familar with the reported sighting of a Maura look-alike (calling herself "Raykel") in the Church of Solid Rock Assembly of God in Barton, VT, on Fathers Day in June 2005.
There are conflicting accounts as to whether "Raykel" actually signed the visitors book of the church or not.
My thought is that if "Raykel" actually did sign the visitors book it should be possible to compare her handwriting with that of Maura´s, in order to rule this possible sighting of Maura in or out.
The question is:
Is there a signature of the mysterious "Raykel" in the church´s visitors book, or not?
I would be more than willing to call the church myself, but being Swedish and having lived for some time in England my accent is rather one of "British" English.
From a psychological point of view I´m sure that whoever replies at the Barton church in question would feel much more at ease speaking with a caller who actually speaks American.
The phone number for the Barton, VT, church is:
(Six Zero Three)- Five Two Five - Three Eight Eight Eight.(Number must be spelled out like this due to Topix rules).
I´m sure we would all here be extremely grateful indeed were you possibly willing to do this potentially vital "detective work" on behalf of Maura.
Warmest thanks!
Euro

Just out of curiousity. Why don't you call? I am not being a smart ass but this is the second time you have given the number out. Not sure what your phones are like over there. But it is actually very reasonable to call over seas nowadays. I am not jumping on a bandwagon or anything, but I can understand what certain posters are stating now.

Be sure to call ahead to this very provincial church, so they will have time to think about why you're asking before you get there. Be polite. Always call first. And be careful to leave behind some fingerprints and DNA samples, proving that you've been there and are trying to pin the blame on someone else.

This is "Sleuth" (Laurence Olivier and Michael Caine) on steroids. Or maybe "And Then There Were None" by Agatha Christie. That's partly the reason for the high question/answer ratio. If the perp is among us, s/he'll eventually say the wrong thing. We'll all be waiting for the answer to who is Raykel?

In the meantime, there's this reference to think about.

In Ramah is heard the sound of moaning,
of bitter weeping!
Rachel mourns her children,
she refuses to be consoled
because her children are no more.

Thus says the LORD:
Cease your cries of mourning,
wipe the tears from your eyes.
The sorrow you have shown shall have its reward...
There is hope for your future.

Jeremiah 31:15-1

WeWii wrote:

<quoted text>
Just out of curiousity. Why don't you call? I am not being a smart ass but this is the second time you have given the number out. Not sure what your phones are like over there. But it is actually very reasonable to call over seas nowadays. I am not jumping on a bandwagon or anything, but I can understand what certain posters are stating now.

They have hardly any phones in Sweden and certainly no international calling plans for international reporters. And those British/English accents are so frightening to people from Vermont. They might think the Revolution isn't over after all. Call the Green Mountain Boys!! Where's Ethan Allen?

Of course, there's always an alternative to asking from Sweden someone in Vermont to go look at a church's guestbook. A FAMILY MEMBER could always request a copy of the page "Raykel" may have signed and if the copy shows a matching handwriting, then they could call NHSP. If none of this has been done already.

I have spoken to Mr. Murray in the past. I believe that he will leave no stone unturned and that has been checked out. But of course, that is my opinion only.

I remember discussing the RAYKEL situation on the MMM sight. It was like certain people wanted to stop that discussion as not important. Always wondered about that.

I think it has been easy to "assume" that Maura drove the Saturn to the Haverhill area because otherwise it would be awfully coincidental that the Saturn ended up in the White Mountains very near areas that she and her family were quite familiar with, i.e., the White Mountains were her favorite place. While it can't be claimed as a Fact that she was driving the car up there, it's pretty logical that she did.

Other thing: If anyone is going to take action on any of the various items that have been brought up -- such as calling the church in Barton, VT -- it would be wise to let this forum know you will do that thing. Otherwise, the church could receive X number of phone calls about "Raykel" ... I'd be glad to call them myself and will do so, but first I want to make sure no one else is going to do it or has already done it. I plan to call them tomorrow, unless someone posts on the forum that the call has already been made.

.

Next: anyone on here a graduate of UMass Amherst? Or have a close friend/relative who is? As an alumnus, possibly that person could contact UMass and protest BBart's banishment -- from a legal standpoint that just outrages me, frankly, and I'd do it but I have no clout with UMass Amherst whatsoever.

On the other hand, I have twice put someone in the hospital just with what I said to them, so maybe a phone call or a letter ....

.

Beagle --- I sure hope that "post-menopausal" pick-up bar comment wasn't in regard to me acting "friendly" with people here -- I'll act however I want!!! Man! I'm happily married and enjoy kidding with everyone I run across. You can act friendly and do decent research at the same time!

Still think most probable scenario is: Maura driving north, Maura in Saturn at snowbank. Seemed she was in despair, but the Barton, VT reported sighting seemed more reliable than most witness statements.

BeagleBart wrote:

<quoted text>
Therefore, Maura Murray disappeared from Haverhill, NH?

Uh, no. Did you see that anywhere in your quote?

When you guys are done pissing up ropes, you can rejoin us in the search for Maura, in whatever form you wish--pounding the pavement, researching, calling, hiking through the woods. Whatever you have to offer.

Advocator wrote:

Next: anyone on here a graduate of UMass Amherst? Or have a close friend/relative who is? As an alumnus, possibly that person could contact UMass and protest BBart's banishment -- from a legal standpoint that just outrages me, frankly, and I'd do it but I have no clout with UMass Amherst whatsoever.
On the other hand, I have twice put someone in the hospital just with what I said to them, so maybe a phone call or a letter ....
.

Thanks for your interest in seeing UMass a more hospitable place for the general public. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, but it's probably better to let this lie for a bit and see what develops from it. There might be more leverage in a few weeks, if you get my drift. But the idea that UMass can capriciously keep the public from asking about a parking lot location is pretty scary, to say the least.

Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps Eurobserver simply can't afford to call Vermont from Sweden? Not all of us are so well off. Or perhaps he was hoping it would be more convenient for someone local.

But, since in the past seven days this place has turned more dog-in-the-mangerish than ever before, you never know.

quija wrote:

Beagle --- I sure hope that "post-menopausal" pick-up bar comment wasn't in regard to me acting "friendly" with people here -- I'll act however I want!!! Man! I'm happily married and enjoy kidding with everyone I run across. You can act friendly and do decent research at the same time!
Still think most probable scenario is: Maura driving north, Maura in Saturn at snowbank. Seemed she was in despair, but the Barton, VT reported sighting seemed more reliable than most witness statements.

Little, little jokey poo. That's all. Nothing to jump on here. But if it makes you all feel better, then by all means... feel it was directed at you.

Actually, it was directed at, well, I better not say, but I think he's awfully cute.

BeagleBart wrote:

Maura Murray in Amherst and Fred's Saturn in Haverhill are two very different locations.
What's troubling to some of us is the repeated tendency to blur these facts when better is known. Repeated blurring of these facts keeps the dialogue going in circles.
WTF and I are not splitting hairs. We are trying to keep important facts straight.

Which is why I corrected myself later in the post, which WTF seems to have realised.

If this is the manner in which you approached the UMass security/police, perhaps I'm beginning to understand their reluctance to have you on campus. One would hope that you're not this aggressive in all avenues of approach.

BeagleBart wrote:

<quoted text>Thanks for your interest in seeing UMass a more hospitable place for the general public. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, but it's probably better to let this lie for a bit and see what develops from it. There might be more leverage in a few weeks, if you get my drift. But the idea that UMass can capriciously keep the public from asking about a parking lot location is pretty scary, to say the least.

I still don't understand why you think it's capricious. Either you think they think you're suspicious, because you were asking about something related to Maura, or you think they're being capricious.

Again, the fact remains that you were asking about THAT SPECIFIC parking sticker--from a picture of her car. Whether or not a person agrees with what UMass did (and I can't actually judge that, because I don't know the whole story, I only know your "NEWS FLASH" report of it, and not anything they might have to say about it) it is notable that you did NOT simply approach a UMass officer and ask, "If I had x-and-such parking sticker, where would that have enabled me to park in 2004?" You showed them a photograph which seems to have been recognized as that of a missing person. If this raised their hackles a bit, I wouldn't call that "capricious" regardless of whether I'd call it "misdirected" or "mistakenly militaristic" or "overreactionary."

Some time ago, we talked about anonymous calls to Vasi's hospital wing that may or may not have occurred. I suspect you remember this conversation well, Beagle. It was posited that anonymous phone calls inquiring about Vasi's condition may or may not raise flags for police and nursing staff about who hit Vasi.

It may be, justified or unjustified, that this is the EXACT SAME SORT OF REACTION. Consider for a minute:

1. You have been the victim of a lawn-mower bashing and other assorted vandalisms.
2. No one has been apprehended or named in this (at least not publicly, even if you have a good idea who it may be)
3. Your wife, in your own words, may or may not have received anonymous phone calls regarding Vasi.
4. Vasi may or may not be related to Maura in terms of his accident/her disappearance.
5. You arrive on campus and ask campus police about Maura's parking sticker.
6. You get a no-trespassing order on the UMass campus.

Perhaps UMass police is starting to wonder if you have a vendetta of your own, even one of revenge? I am not suggesting you do or do not, I am simply trying to put myself in their shoes.

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
FireCat, this is the statement you made. I checked again to make sure I did not read it incorrectly. I am not sure why you are so upset with me. I thought I answered the question with relative civility more as a fact check than anything else. I have no axe to grind with you. I don't know you even by reputation so there was no malice intended in my answer to you.
I'll assume that something was misinterpreted and leave it at that.
Bill

Bill, thanks. I apologize if I seem to have overreacted, and I appreciate your saying there was no malice intended. Let's just leave it as a misinterpretation and go from here.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Uh, no. Did you see that anywhere in your quote?
When you guys are done pissing up ropes, you can rejoin us in the search for Maura, in whatever form you wish--pounding the pavement, researching, calling, hiking through the woods. Whatever you have to offer.

Good example of a deliberate disconnect.

FireCat refuses to answer the question. Just likes to pretend I said something he knows I did not say. Which says a lot.

Firecat IN HIS OWN WORDS said that Maura disappeared from Haverhill. This is not known.

Fred's Saturn was found in Haverhill. Maura was last RELIABLEY seen, according to published reports, in Amherst, Massachusetts.

Maybe Maura drove the Saturn to Haverhill and maybe she did not. If you want to go on the assumption that she drove the Saturn to Haverhill, then go for it. That's a totally legitimate line of thinking.

But there is NO PROOF that Maura disappeared from Haverhill. Or from Amherst.

So if some posters want to pursue Maura's diappearance as mainly an Amherst event, then so what?

No one is stopping you from talking about Haverhill. Go right ahead. Personally, I welcome responsibly acquired information about Haverhill and all other places. Haverhill is a good place to concentrate on because that's where the Saturn was left. But it's not the ONLY place to concentrate on.

Firecat claims as FACT that Maura disappeared from Haverhill. It is certainly possible that Maura disappeared from Haverhill; it may even be probable, but it falls far short of FACT.