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Where is MAURA MURRAY

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BeagleBart

Greenfield, MA

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#2722
Jul 14, 2008
 

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I think I'll go out for an ice cream. That should really get them going.

Just for the record, as I said earlier, I gave the UMass police officer no indication of the connection between the Saturn and the parking decal. The image he saw included ONLY the image of a parking sticker, no car, no mention of Maura Murray, no nothing. I was totally polite and friendly. It was a simple question that received a simple answer.
BeagleBart

Greenfield, MA

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#2723
Jul 14, 2008
 

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Tetra Tech??? Goodness, gracious!
BeagleBart

Greenfield, MA

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#2724
Jul 14, 2008
 
FireCat Wrote: The fact of the matter is, Haverhill is where Maura was when she disappeared. Maura was attending school in Amherst MA. Her car turned up in Haverhill NH.

Maybe a definition of "disappeared from" is in order?

Does it mean the place where a person was last reliably seen or otherwise known to have been?

Or a place where a person is presumed to have been abducted or committed suicide?

Or something else?
whiston

Middlefield, CT

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#2725
Jul 14, 2008
 

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hi all, my opinion would be that Maura was last seen in amherst by the cameras at the a.t.m and liquor store.i wonder if any family membersr have ever seen them.i have to say honestly i have gone back and forth on my opinion of mrAtwwods sighting of Maura.i have stopped to help people that have broken down or are stuck in the snow.. could i recognize them 2 days later.i doubt it.remember where we got most of our' facts' in the past.remember amherst and Mauras prior life is still a mystery.how many emails did Maura send to her teachers and mystery gallery employer and who would have the right to publish or conceal them.anyone disagreee that Mauras prior lfe shold be kept private and why.take care philip

Joined: Jun 7, 2008

Comments: 137

Arizona

ISP: Denver, CO

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#2726
Jul 14, 2008
 
whiston wrote:
anyone disagreee that Mauras prior lfe shold be kept private and why.take care philip
I do think *most* of Maura's prior life should remain private, but not all. Knowing every single thing about her life isn't necessary, certainly. But knowing her general habits in terms of her weekly school schedule at UMass, including whether she in fact attended classes on Friday Feb 6th (day after the upsetting phone call she received) and also on Monday the 9th, would be helpful and might provide more clues to her state of mind. For example, if she went to classes as usual on Friday and Monday, then maybe after all she was not AS upset by that phone call as we have surmised. If classes were canceled due to weather (which was suggested on the MMM forum), then what did she do on those 2 days?

Also, it could be helpful to know what her reading tastes were, and what she liked to do with her spare time other than running.
BeagleBart

Greenfield, MA

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#2727
Jul 14, 2008
 
For example, if you believe that Maura Murray was last seen in Amherst, does that mean you believe she disappeared from Amherst?

If she was last seen in Amherst, but took her own life in Montreal, after traveling there voluntarily from Haverhill, then where did she disappear from?

I don't raise the question as an overly-academic one. The meaning of where a person is believed to have disappeared from is maybe not a huge issue, but sometimes I wonder whether or not it throws the exchanges off a little more than necessary.
BeagleBart

Greenfield, MA

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#2728
Jul 14, 2008
 
Advocator wrote:
<quoted text>
I do think *most* of Maura's prior life should remain private, but not all. Knowing every single thing about her life isn't necessary, certainly. But knowing her general habits in terms of her weekly school schedule at UMass, including whether she in fact attended classes on Friday Feb 6th (day after the upsetting phone call she received) and also on Monday the 9th, would be helpful and might provide more clues to her state of mind. For example, if she went to classes as usual on Friday and Monday, then maybe after all she was not AS upset by that phone call as we have surmised. If classes were canceled due to weather (which was suggested on the MMM forum), then what did she do on those 2 days?
Also, it could be helpful to know what her reading tastes were, and what she liked to do with her spare time other than running.
Good questions, but, again, getting answers is nearly impossible. The old reply to asking why there could be no useful answers about Maura's life was simply that the answers were not known or were irrelevant or were "diversionary." The more you poke and prod this thing, the weirder it gets.

Any word on the recent search? Was it of land (as in terrain), the interior of a house, water? Any announcement regarding who exactly performed the search? To what extent persons from the Molly Bish Foundation were included? Did the Molly Bish Foundation offer only some funding? Or did they supply people, animals, and/or materials, too?

One would hope that the answers to these questions are not a secret also.

Joined: Jun 7, 2008

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Arizona

ISP: Denver, CO

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#2729
Jul 14, 2008
 

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[QUOTE who="BeagleBartAny word on the recent search? Was it of land (as in terrain), the interior of a house, water? Any announcement regarding who exactly performed the search? To what extent persons from the Molly Bish Foundation were included? Did the Molly Bish Foundation offer only some funding? Or did they supply people, animals, and/or materials, too?[/QUOTE]

According to the report on the main page of www.mauramurraymissing.com , a group of licensed private investigators from NH, MA and VT along with K-9 teams, searched wooded areas. There is a photo of the participants, looks like three K-9 teams. No idea of funding, although apparently the private investigators are doing this work for free.

Joined: Jun 10, 2008

Comments: 299

Woonsocket, RI

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#2730
Jul 14, 2008
 

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Advocator wrote:
I think it has been easy to "assume" that Maura drove the Saturn to the Haverhill area because otherwise it would be awfully coincidental that the Saturn ended up in the White Mountains very near areas that she and her family were quite familiar with, i.e., the White Mountains were her favorite place. While it can't be claimed as a Fact that she was driving the car up there, it's pretty logical that she did.
Not to be argumentative but, although the assumption is that Maura may have been returning to a place that was special to her, the reality is that Haverhill is on the other side of NH (haverhill is far west bordering VT, Bartlett is much more eastern...in addition, anyone familiar with the area would most likely choose NOT to travel 112 in the winter as the other end of it (the Kancamagus Highway) going east towards Bartlett, Conway etc. can be intensely stormy with little to no notice...a more treacherous road than the western end of 112 and there are no houses or services available for many, many miles. 302 to 116 is a far better and faster route, although it may be a longer distance.

I haven't seen anything but Bartlett mentioned---were there actualy places along 112 in Western NH that the family frequented or that maura would be familiar with?

Joined: Jun 7, 2008

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Arizona

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#2731
Jul 14, 2008
 

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looking4amoose wrote:
I haven't seen anything but Bartlett mentioned---were there actualy places along 112 in Western NH that the family frequented or that maura would be familiar with?
Maura and her dad had hiked all over the White Mountains in that general area since she was a child -- she apparently was familiar with Lincoln, Woodstock and so on. What she was NOT familiar with was coming up to that area from Amherst, so the route she traveled was not personally known to her. Had she reached Lincoln, she would have been in very familiar surroundings.

Joined: Jun 10, 2008

Comments: 299

Woonsocket, RI

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#2732
Jul 14, 2008
 
WTF wrote:
<quoted text>
LOOKING4AMOOSE, can you say where exactly these public access points for ATV's are in that area? I would really like to know that. I can post an email address if that is better than a public posting.
In one of the most amazing coincidences I have ever had I was talking with an uncle this weekend who I havenít seen in many years. He owns property (2 acres) in the Mountain lakes area. He bought it in the 70ís before the whole thing went bust during the oil shortage. Never built on it but he used to park a camper on the property during the summer. It sounds like he hasn't been there in a while.
Bill
The access points are right on 112---you take the trail off of Lodge Lane to the left, cross Valley and then head up hill to 112. You cross right over 112 a little further down the road from the Weathered barn, but there are a dozen or so offshoots that can be followed. Technically they are hiking trails, but they are too rough terrain in many cases to gently hike so most of us use the quads in good weather and snowmobiles in winter. You can also go up Lodge Lane to Pinnacle and access trails up that way behind the Ski Lodge. Lodge Lane is directly across the street from the A frame in question. If you want to post your email, I will send you more info on the area---not necessarily of interest to everyone else.

Joined: Jun 10, 2008

Comments: 299

Woonsocket, RI

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#2733
Jul 14, 2008
 
quija wrote:
<quoted text>
Still, several of us now have trips set up for Haverhill and Amherst/Hadley, and I'm tracking down people to talk to who are spread out all over the place by now,
Excuse me but I'm going for a marketting ploy here---for those of you planning trips to Haverhill, do know that I rent out my house pretty inexpensively when I'm not there relaxing.....(I'm sorry...had to get that in)
BeagleBart

Greenfield, MA

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#2734
Jul 14, 2008
 
looking4amoose wrote:
<quoted text>
Not to be argumentative but, although the assumption is that Maura may have been returning to a place that was special to her, the reality is that Haverhill is on the other side of NH (haverhill is far west bordering VT, Bartlett is much more eastern...in addition, anyone familiar with the area would most likely choose NOT to travel 112 in the winter as the other end of it (the Kancamagus Highway) going east towards Bartlett, Conway etc. can be intensely stormy with little to no notice...a more treacherous road than the western end of 112 and there are no houses or services available for many, many miles. 302 to 116 is a far better and faster route, although it may be a longer distance.
I haven't seen anything but Bartlett mentioned---were there actualy places along 112 in Western NH that the family frequented or that maura would be familiar with?
Actually, even if you look at an old fashioned paper map, you can immediately see that the distance from Haverhill to Bartlett is shorter by 302 than by 112. It's roughly 20 or so miles shorter, if I remember correctly. So it's difficult to see why someone would even want to take 112 on a February night when they know how quickly some pretty intense bad weather can appear?
FireCat

United States

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#2735
Jul 14, 2008
 

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BeagleBart wrote:
<quoted text>
Good example of a deliberate disconnect.
FireCat refuses to answer the question. Just likes to pretend I said something he knows I did not say. Which says a lot.
Firecat IN HIS OWN WORDS said that Maura disappeared from Haverhill. This is not known.
Fred's Saturn was found in Haverhill. Maura was last RELIABLEY seen, according to published reports, in Amherst, Massachusetts.
Maybe Maura drove the Saturn to Haverhill and maybe she did not. If you want to go on the assumption that she drove the Saturn to Haverhill, then go for it. That's a totally legitimate line of thinking.
But there is NO PROOF that Maura disappeared from Haverhill. Or from Amherst.
So if some posters want to pursue Maura's diappearance as mainly an Amherst event, then so what?
No one is stopping you from talking about Haverhill. Go right ahead. Personally, I welcome responsibly acquired information about Haverhill and all other places. Haverhill is a good place to concentrate on because that's where the Saturn was left. But it's not the ONLY place to concentrate on.
Firecat claims as FACT that Maura disappeared from Haverhill. It is certainly possible that Maura disappeared from Haverhill; it may even be probable, but it falls far short of FACT.
Beagle Bart, GET OVER YOURSELF. FireCat (who is not, in fact, male) has not stated as fact that Maura disappeared from Haverhill. FireCat CORRECTED HERSELF IN THAT SELF-SAME POST AND HAS TAKEN GREAT PAINS TO REESTABLISH THAT CORRECTION IN SUBSEQUENT POSTS.

The person who has continued to harp on this disconnect is not FireCat, it is Alden, aka BeagleBart.

Since we're talking about facts here.
FireCat

United States

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#2736
Jul 14, 2008
 
BeagleBart wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, even if you look at an old fashioned paper map,
LOL, whatevever THAT is....
FireCat

United States

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#2737
Jul 14, 2008
 

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BeagleBart wrote:
Tetra Tech??? Goodness, gracious!
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, and I suspect I'm not alone. Please explain?
BeagleBart

Greenfield, MA

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#2738
Jul 14, 2008
 
FireCat wrote:
<quoted text>
Beagle Bart, GET OVER YOURSELF. FireCat (who is not, in fact, male) has not stated as fact that Maura disappeared from Haverhill. FireCat CORRECTED HERSELF IN THAT SELF-SAME POST AND HAS TAKEN GREAT PAINS TO REESTABLISH THAT CORRECTION IN SUBSEQUENT POSTS.
The person who has continued to harp on this disconnect is not FireCat, it is Alden, aka BeagleBart.
Since we're talking about facts here.
Okay, I'm over myself. Sorry, I didn't see where you corrected yourself. I'll keep looking. Alden
BeagleBart

Greenfield, MA

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#2739
Jul 14, 2008
 

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FireCat wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, and I suspect I'm not alone. Please explain?
Please explain what?
FireCat

United States

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#2740
Jul 14, 2008
 
BeagleBart wrote:
<quoted text>
Therefore, Maura Murray disappeared from Haverhill, NH?
If I get car-jacked in my father's car after having stopped at a local liquor store, and the perp dumps my dead body down a nearby ravine, where no one ever looks for it, and then the perp drives the car 150 miles away until it fishtails off the road, at which point he abandons it and runs down the dark road ahead in a hooded sweatshirt, how have I "disappeared" from the location where my father's car was abandoned?
Pardon me if I did not recognise this as a legitimate question that seriously wanted an answer.

To answer it, though I still suspect--as I did this afternoon--that the question was more illustration than anything else--it's what we have to go on. Until proven otherwise, it's an assumption that must be made. If anyone can prove otherwise, feel free. We'd love to hear it. But it's in fact a reasonable assertion to make, much more reasonable than to say she disappeared from Montreal, the moon, or Sweden.

In fact, there in fact WAS an eyewitness who maintains he saw her, even though he said she looked "different."

Remember Occam's Razor?

(as an aside, I can't believe I just dignified this with an answer. But I have, since Beagle Bart seems to think I have something to hide. Apparently the only thing I have to hide is my gender.)
BeagleBart

Greenfield, MA

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#2741
Jul 14, 2008
 
FireCat wrote:
<quoted text>
Beagle Bart, GET OVER YOURSELF. FireCat (who is not, in fact, male) has not stated as fact that Maura disappeared from Haverhill. FireCat CORRECTED HERSELF IN THAT SELF-SAME POST AND HAS TAKEN GREAT PAINS TO REESTABLISH THAT CORRECTION IN SUBSEQUENT POSTS.
The person who has continued to harp on this disconnect is not FireCat, it is Alden, aka BeagleBart.
Since we're talking about facts here.
I'm way over myself now. I deeply apologize for not seeing where you corrected yourself. I'm glad you did correct yourself. I just didn't see it. I'm sorry you were so easily misinterpreted.

Just so I've got this right, do you think it is a fact that Maura disappeared from Haverhill? Do you think it is a fact that Maura disappeared from Amherst? What is a good working definition of a - for lack of a better term - a disappearing place? The place of the disappearance? Something like that'
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