Where is MAURA MURRAY

I knew as i posted that it could be a hurtful and sad idea to post. i suppose we can drop the idea of Maura wanting to end her life? That leaves running away, accident, or foul play. It just keeps jumping out that suicide is more likely than a serial killer coming by, a witness harming her and hiding her during a short period of time, her being brought into a cult, a hit-and-run criminal that hurt her not just leaving her at the scene rather than getting her into his/her vehicle and moving her, etc.

College-aged students under layer over layer of stresse are sometimes brought to the point of not being able to deal with stuff anymore, even with great backgrounds, families, brains, and achievement.

If i remember, there's a timetable (by "rocket?") on wikipedia, and it might help (me and you) to just look at the facts and timetable again.

I wish there was an authority who could tell us, this or that has a certain probability of having happened to Maura. I will listen to everything; i have no agenda here, altho i have been belaboring the idea that Maura had just had it with all her stresses.

The more complex the scenarios get, the less likely they are --- not that they're not possible... just that each step of the scenario (combinations and permutations) makes that particular one less likely chance-wise. I'd like to hear everyone's simplest ideas of what happened with Maura, if you're willing.

1Anne wrote:

Ouiija, Although all possibilities should be considered and rendered repeatedly, I personally believe Maura never came to commit suicide. As far as Dad and Billy knowing more than they thought. This would ring true for any traumatic situation they were thrust into. We all have great hindsight. It is not that I dismiss this idea out of hand, it is with careful consideration of all the information available.

Anne, i was just thinking of Billy early Sunday morning (2/8) after the car accident in Fred's car, listening to Maura's upset on the phone and thinking that it was "more than just the accident" (paraphrased).

As for Fred, I wonder if a friend of Maura's had used the saturn and had an accident, if Maura might have shared that with her dad, who was such a close friend.

Posters were supposed to watch what they said on the family-run website, but on a public one, shouldn't we be able to toss out all ideas, as long they don't include direct accusations? I mean, my mom and my friends' moms knew about situations we'd been in that other people did not know about --- so that's a common thing --- Even the respected Hansen Express Series included in its poll about Maura.... "Do you think she took her life?" Is it OK to keep that possibility open, as well as the chance Maura shared something with her dad about the Saturn?

Beagle wrote:

In the dog house, are we?

Yup, in the beagle house.

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>
Yup, in the beagle house.

I may not always agree with you, but I sure am trying to stick up for ya. You bring up good points. They're tricky and sticky, but they do need to be discussed. And you're much more diplomatic than I will ever be - bless you.

1Anne wrote:

... As far as Dad and Billy knowing more than they thought. This would ring true for any traumatic situation they were thrust into. We all have great hindsight. It is not that I dismiss this idea out of hand, it is with careful consideration of all the information available.

You're right. A close family member might put things they knew into a pattern in hindsight. During a traumatic event who is even focusing on putting together pieces of a puzzle, a pattern???? Who? At that point it's about panic, horror, shock, survival, getting through that day, the next minute, doing whatever it takes. Don't think I don't have an idea what that's like in terms of loved ones.

I don't know the way to explain this. It's not about "withholding" from LE; for example, with a teen many parents ignore what they can, deny what they can. Not referring to Maura here:... Say parents realized a child was smoking cigarettes secretly at age 12-13. Say they found a little grass in a pocket at age 13-14. Say relatives that teen's age were into heroin at that time. Say the teen headed to Boston and disappeared. Everyone else would think --- good girl, good student, etc. etc.--- and only a very few people (primarily the parents in denial, maybe a friend or two) would have the info necessary to wonder --- did she get hurt trying to try some new drugs, going to someone's apartment to get some? The parents wouldn't even GO THERE in their heads --- they'd wonder about a bad guy waiting outside the Boston Public Library, etc. AGAIN, THIS IS NOT MAURA.

I'm just trying to say that many parents can ignore signs of problems in their kids BECAUSE they love them, BECAUSE they respect and admire them, and because they don't want to even think otherwise; they think it's a fluke. That was why I wondered if Maura's dad had any idea about the Saturn having been in an Amherst accident. I think my dad might've repressed it or worked it around in his head to make it more acceptable. And I don't know what I would do if i was that dad. By the time i finish this, i'm sure there'll be more slams for my mentioning the chance of suicide....

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>I may not always agree with you, but I sure am trying to stick up for ya. You bring up good points. They're tricky and sticky, but they do need to be discussed. And you're much more diplomatic than I will ever be - bless you.

Thanks, Beague, I've definitely noticed your support and I appreciate it. It's new to me to be in a venue where the prime motive isn't "for us all to get along". Motive is pursuing what happened with Maura, following gut instincts or even Touretticly elaborating on fragments of information. College is different because disagreements never edge over into the personal. Some criticism here has been excellently phrased, tho -- and really helpful.

Eurobserver wrote:

... As for Maura being physically well, but not making herself known to her family is not quite as impossible and improbable as it might seem to be.
Please, look up the expression "Dissociative Fugue"...

Hey Euro,
Dissociative fugue would explain disappearing and not contacting a loved family. Since I'm learning how to disagree, I'll say that if Maura did not suffer from this fugue state, running away and leaving mom, dad, brothers, sisters, grandma and others would be far more painful for the family than a young woman stressed beyond tolerance deciding she couldn't cope anymore. Her emotional breakdowns would be evidence of how hard it was for her to even think of this, since her thoughts would be for the pain of the loved ones she was to leave.

I'll continue to read about dissociative fugue, tho. There are so many things that can happen with the mind.

Beagle, Quija and all,
Thanks for responding to my constructive criticisms in such a thoughtful manner. I appreciate that.
Now what do you and others think of the possibility of Dissociative Fugue (or similar syndrome) as an explanation for Maura´s sudden departure from Amherst?
Any ideas, theories, etc?
Thanks!

I think the suicide scenario is certainly the most economical one - and maybe the best one. The problem with concentrating on it is that unless a body or some other really convincing evidence, like a note or video, shows up, then there is the danger that a criminal goes unapprehended and a crime unpunished.

There's certainly no reason to rule out a suicide, but without evidence, there's no place to take it. It comes down almost entirely to intuition without conclusion.

I have to say that I am still disappointed that the thick brush area you mentioned never received the interest it should have. What would the harm have been - assuming a search could otherwise have proceeded (with landowner's permission and all).

Hello again,
Please, read the excerpt from the following web site. Highly interesting research very much applicable to the life and stresses of college students, etc.
The conclusions could possibly explain quite a few college related disappearances.
Due to Topex rules I have had to divide the text into two separate sections.
__________
VisionAndPsychosis.Net ©
In Montgomery, AL.
Copyright 2003 Edit Wednesday April 30, 2008
Subliminal Distraction
If you use computers in small business offices, dorm rooms, or at home save this page to your desktop.
Scroll Down
Skip intro text- go to list of pages..
How to use this site.
Introduction: 400 words 4 screens
This site is a five year psychology project about a "conflict of physiology" related to the vision startle reflex.
If you have startled when someone stepped up beside you, that is the brain system featured here.
It is written for the general public at a sixth grade level.
Forty years ago designers and engineers accidentally discovered
that under special conditions normal features of the physiology of sight could cause a mental break.
The phenomenon is thought to be a harmless nuisance in the design of crowded office workspace.
The Cubicle was designed to deal with this problem and stopped the mental events after 1968.
It hasn't occurred to anyone that in today's world students and others can replicate those "special circumstances."
Seng-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech shooter did that.
We all saw the paranoid psychotic rant Subliminal Distraction exposure produced.
Subliminal Distraction arises from normal features of physiology taught in first-semester college psychology.
Two of those features form a "conflict in the physiology of sight."
You can successfully ignore distracting movement in peripheral vision but you can't stop "subliminally seeing" it.
There are no "off switches" for the sensor cells on the rods and cones in your retina.
If stimulus reaches them neural impulses go to your brain no matter what you are doing.
When you learn to ignore distracting movement in peripheral vision, the startle will stop
but the subliminal functioning of the reflex system prevents you becoming aware
of your brain's continued efforts to warn you of threat-movement.
Those neural impulses and your brain's efforts to form a startle and vision reflex are a Subliminal Distraction.
When you create the "special circumstances" so that the startle is attempted many times each hour,
for several hours daily, and for many days, the subliminal appreciation of threat
eventually colors thought and reason.
In all of human history this phenomenon has only been discovered once.
In the 1960's designers, engineers, and human factor scientists were hired to modernize the business office. Their first prototypes were movable close-spaced workstations. Some of the workers using that design began to have mental breaks. Because they knew what they had done to start the problem they quickly solved it. But the investigation stopped there. No one ever made the connection to mental illness.
They made three basic mistakes.
They thought their encounter was the first time the phenomenon had appeared.
They believed that it could only happen in a business office.
To this day they believe it can only cause a harmless episode of confusion.
This site gathers historical records to show that none of that is true.
So few people are aware of it that it is never considered when there is a mass school shooting, college suicide, or strange student disappearance.
Through Qi Gong and Kundalini Yoga the outcomes of exposure can be shown to be:
unattributed fear - to the point of trembling,
paranoia,
psychosomatic symptoms and strange skin sensations,
panic attacks,
depression and thoughts of suicide.
This phenomenon of physiology has always been present in any human population.

Beagle wrote:

I think the suicide scenario is certainly the most economical one - and maybe the best one. The problem with concentrating on it is that unless a body or some other really convincing evidence, like a note or video, shows up, then there is the danger that a criminal goes unapprehended and a crime unpunished.
ere's certainly no reason to rule out a suicide, without evidence, there's no place to take it. It comes down almost entirely to intuition without conclusion.
I have to say that I am still disappointed that the thick brush area you mentioned never received the interest it should have. What would the harm have been - assuming a search could otherwise have proceeded (with landowner's permission and all).

Man! You're right: it's a useless theory without evidence. It's like a "do nothing more" theory. And no-one really wants to find that evidence --- even those who think it's the most likely thing. Maybe that area was searched, or part of that area, but it's large, as evident on an aerial photo.

Reading your last post it made sense that that "insisting" it was most likely Maura took her own life could diminish motivation and forces to look for a killer. Saying it's "for sure" that a girl took her own life is a cop-out (so to speak). I understand the need to keep on searching for anyone who might be responsible. And also, in a secondary mode, to continue looking for a place Maura might've hidden herself that night. That would not be as critical as stopping a killer. Beague --- "I got it."

Eurobserver wrote:

Beagle, Quija and all,
Thanks for responding to my constructive criticisms in such a thoughtful manner. I appreciate that.
Now what do you and others think of the possibility of Dissociative Fugue (or similar syndrome) as an explanation for Maura´s sudden departure from Amherst?
Any ideas, theories, etc?
Thanks!

It's kind of like suicide. It's a very clean, economical theory, but what do you do with it? Does it mean you drop other possibilities while a crime is ignored? In either scenario, all you can do is physically search for her. A psych expert, with access to Maura's psych history, would be in a far better position to reason out the probability of either event.

If suicide or dissociative fugue were the leading scenarios in the minds of LE, maybe they would not have taken back Maura's things, her computer, etc? LE, despite their zipped lips, seem to think a crime occurred. And I think the observation about RO not saying anything after being shown the photos of various trucks is a keen and highly relevant one.

I think something's going on behind the scenes, but darned if I can figure it out. Some crimes simply cannot be solved. Others take a very long time. Even known serial killers often negotiate their way out of an execution by agreeing to locate some of the victims of murders they committed, but were never convicted of having committed.

Personally, I tend to think the roots of Maura's disappearance are in Amherst, mainly for two reasons. There has been a ton of resistance to the notion that Amherst is relevant. And - regardless of where her father's car was found - Amherst is where Maura was last seen. I think it is very appropriate to look at Haverhill, but not to the exclusion of where Maura was last seen and known to have spent the previous few days.

I have to confess that "Maura Murray Fatigue" is setting in. There's only so much that WILL actually get done in an online discussion like this. The best that can be hoped for - if Maura was abducted - is that perpetrator is among us or is lurking and tips his hand somehow.

Otherwise, this whole thing is more like a meet-up, almost a hobby, instead of something really active and organized.

I would like to reign in on the possibility (??) of hurting Maura's family. Not to worry. Everything anger filled and hurtful has already been said on this thread. The 'stock' that Maura came from will rise above it with strength and courage. Anyway, it is way too late to worry about their feelings or what some posters will say!

Quija wrote:

Motive is pursuing what happened with Maura, following gut instincts or even Touretticly elaborating on fragments of information.

THAT'S IT! Beagle suffers from Topix Tourette's Temporaria (TTTS), which manifests itself occasionally in posts like "Tetra Tech!" with no accompanying explanatory context or apparent relevance. <grin>

Maybe Maura left Amherst after having received a NO TRESPASS ORDER because she asked a UMass police officer where her parking lot was located.

(Tourette's in-house joke.)

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
THAT'S IT! Beagle suffers from Topix Tourette's Temporaria (TTTS), which manifests itself occasionally in posts like "Tetra Tech!" with no accompanying explanatory context or apparent relevance. <grin>

I KNEW that's what you were thinking. Just because I tic doesn't mean I'm a bomb.

Beagle does suffer from Tourettes, repetative. just a joke...I have a personal family member with this syndrome so I understand Advoctor reference...<grin>

I agree that we on this thread/the Internet are not very likely to solve the matter of Maura's disappearance, but it's not impossible either. The Internet is after all WorldWide ... certainly it gives us a great deal of reach in terms of research, and it can hardly be beat for providing forums like this where people of all kinds of varying backgrounds and expertise can come together over a common concern.

To me, the group participating here is a Think Tank. We do Research and Development on possibilities and theories about this case. If LE, or the private investigators, or Maura's family members come here and read, they may very well see avenues of exploration that they have not thought of, scenarios that would not have occurred to them without this forum. One or more of those avenues may in fact lead to Maura, or tie in with something they know that we don't and makes what they know more significant than they realized.

For the last 3 or so years, I've been following Maura's case online, participating in the MMM forum/s to some degree and reading frequently. Even with all of that, I have seen some ideas and avenues here on THIS thread that I have not seen expressed before, and they are ideas and avenues well worth considering. Some of those are ideas/avenues that have been expressed in the past, but in discussing them again here, new information or understanding has occurred.

I think it is a real shame that both the MMM forums closed down without preserving the discussions. Forums can be closed and threads locked to prevent posting, but the threads remain available for searching and re-reading. While I fully understand the reasons why the forums could no longer be kept up with, at the same time it's kinda tough that all the time spent by so many who cared so much and worked so hard for several years to come up with ideas and information that could be helpful ... was just wiped out.

Hello Advocator,

No news as yet from the Barton, VT, church, I presume...
It shall be interesting to see whether they will be responding at all to your message or not.

Without any response from that direction, we would seem to be more or less at a standstill desipte the very best of intentions.
With a multitude of possibilities and theories that may make more or less sense we really don´t seem to be even close to anything tangible.
Sad, depressing, but unfortunately true.

Just one very important thing, though:

WEST POINT - we don´t seem to have any kind of information whatsoever regarding Maura´s three (?) terms at West Point and the many people she is bound to have met while being a cadet there.

Have any of you ever seen any kind of reference at all to Maura´s time at West Point, except for the obvious ones.

What about changing tack here for a while by at least temporarily shifting the emphasis to West Point? Now that we seem to have reached at least stand-still as regards Haverhill and Amherst, why not see what we may come up with as for Maura´s time at Amherst?

What do you say?

Hello again Advocator,

Just missed your last post there by a minute or so.

I fully concur with your views and conclusions, not least about the apparent loss of the contents of the former MMM Forums.
There must be a wealth of important information there which is now unavailable. Just too bad, really.

Re-reading the last paragraph of my previous post I apologise for having written Amherst instead of West Point. I must be getting tired towards the end of the day here...

My conclusion should, of course read as follows:

Now that we seem to have reached at least a stand-still as regards Haverhill and Amherst, why not see what we may come up with as for Maura´s time at WEST POINT?

Anyone?
Thanks!