Where is MAURA MURRAY

Two things really bother me..
1. The comment by sniffin that he/she overheard Kathleen state that now that Maura is gone, her Father will will finally give her some attention. This is not a quote but what I remember getting from it.

2. I remember, but, cannot find a quote from Kathleen that "Something went wrong." Any one remember this?

hi all if Maura decided to leave her old life why would she care where her fathers old car ended up .if she was leaving to start a new life she would have had to register that car at some point etc.... if she was leaving to start a new life the only reason to email her job and teachers would be to stall the search from p.d. and the family.i don' htink the books in the car mean she planned she was going to return.she emailed her teachers and job in the p.m.on monday does this mean she had no classes monday A.M and monday was a free day did she have a 3 day weekend every week.why will the Murrays not post her schedule.was she seen at the a.t.m. in the saturn.i still cannot understand why the video has not been made public.who else might be in the saturn if not Maura.who else might be at the atm besides Maura.was Maura not in the saturn at the a.t.m.take care philip

gvmeabrk wrote:

Two things really bother me..
1. The comment by sniffin that he/she overheard Kathleen state that now that Maura is gone, her Father will will finally give her some attention. This is not a quote but what I remember getting from it.
2. I remember, but, cannot find a quote from Kathleen that "Something went wrong." Any one remember this?

Hi Gymeabrk-- I'm not sure that #1 was a documented fact or comment. It just doesn't sound right to me --- seriously, does it sound like something that would be uttered out loud? It's sure provocative but judging by the look on kathleen's face in photos around that time, she seemed lost and heartbroken, and sort of beaten-down. What do you (yourself) make of that posted comment? If i said that about a sib, it'd be an off-the-cuff kind of irritable thing, before knowing it was a truly serious situation, not for "real".

#2 I never heard it 'til now. I wonder where that comment appeared? Guess we'll all be checking up on it.

If a West Point cadet does something as tiny as telling a guard they are going to a class and they go to a store or the gym instead, it is a violation of the honor code. It's human nature to do small, independent things and it's a shock reading about the honor code and how strict it is! The repercussions are also stunning. I had no idea how completely regimented the cadets are! Here's a brief sample, but it's not the most readable:

http://www.usma.edu/Committees/Honor/Info/mai...

Advocator,

Interesting question there in your recent post (#3066). Someone would have to look up the statutes of the NH law here.

Now, considering that the Saturn ended up facing the wrong way at the Weathered Barn curve, i.e. facing west in the eastbound lane, it would seem to me that either

1. The Saturn - whoever was driving it - suffered a real accident at the Weathered Barn curve, spun round and ended up facing west in the eastbound carriageway.
This scenario would explain why the SBD found a young lady driver - Maura or not - sitting in the driver´s seat of the Saturn.

Of course, we still have no known corroboration of the SBD´s witness account that he actually saw and spoke with a young lady in the Saturn.
He may well have seen and spoken with a person in the Saturn, but we have only the SBD´s own words that this was a young lady looking more or less like Maura.
What if it were in fact a man in the Saturn and the SBD for whatever reason "adapted" his witness account?
I´m just pointing out - again - that, as far as we know, we only have the SBD´s word for a young lady driver actually being there.

or alternatively

2. The Saturn was quite accidentally "dropped" at the curve by a towing-truck, thus ending up the way it did, facing the traffic in the "wrong" direction.
But if this is what happened, why would the SBD find a young lady driver by the wheel of the Saturn (if we accept his account)?
She would hardly have been sitting in the driver´s seat of the Saturn while the car was being towed by a "proper" towing-truck, would she?
She would rather have been sitting in the cab of the towing-truck itself, perhaps quickly returning to the Saturn to grab some things before moving off, but hardly getting into the driver´s seat by a snow-bank.

If the Saturn was being towed by an ordinary pick-up truck with just a chain to tow the car, then the Saturn would probably not have spun round in the "wrong" direction if accidentally "dropped"/disconnect ed from the towing pick-up truck.
Admittedly, it is not impossible, but rather unlikely.

Frankly, I don´t really believe that the accident was wilfully staged at the Weathered Barn.
Why on earth stage an accident so very close to several houses, when the real wilderness is at hand less than a mile further east on rte 112?
That just wouldn´t make sense, would it?

What do you think?
Thanks for reading!

OMG -- I've never seen anything as strict as how this excerpt depicts West Point!!!!! You can't breathe without permission at West Point! The last paragraph is scary because most people I know would have done some little thing and been sent to some tribunal (if that's the word)! I didn't understand what cadets went through there!

WEST POINT HONOR SYSTEM ITS OBJECTIVES AND PROCEDURES By MAJOR GENERAL MAXWELL D. TAYLOR
Superintendent, U. S. Military Academy

THE HONOR SYSTEM AT WEST POINT
...
Honor, as it is understood by the Corps of Cadets, is a fundamental attribute of character. Honor is a virtue which implies loyalty and courage, truthfulness and self respect, justice and generosity. Its underlying principle is truth. It is not a complicated system of ethics, but merely "honest dealing and clean thinking." If a cadet is true in thought, word, and deed, there is no question about his meeting the standards of the Corps. On the other hand, quibbling, evasive statements, or the use of technicalities to conceal guilt are not tolerated at West Point.
which he is almost reluctant to talk about--it occupies a position in his mind akin to the virtue of his mother or his sister."

...the System has never outgrown its simple meaning--that a cadet will neither lie, cheat nor steal. A cadet's spoken or written word must always be acceptable without question. For their part, the authorities are careful not to use the Honor System to prevent the violation of regulations. Only if a cadet indicates by, a statement that he has complied or will comply with a particular regulation does the Honor System enter into consideration. When such a statement is made, it must, of course, be true. Sometimes a cadet is required to give a promise to comply with regulations in exchange for a privilege. For example, a cadet taking advantage of a dining privilege is required to sign his departure and return in a book. His signature means that he has taken no undue advantage of the privilege during his absence from barracks. If he is not willing to enter into this promise, he does not receive the privilege. Having once accepted the privilege, he is honor bound to report himself for any violation which he commits while absent from barracks.

...In another situation, a cadet's simple word is taken in lieu of a complicated official report. For example, a cadet crossing a sentry post tells the sentry, "All right." "All right" in this case means that he has legitimate business for crossing the post and is not going to take undue advantage of the privilege. The phrase is elsewhere used in a variety of circumstances as an official formula with a specified meaning. For example, "All right" may be used as the oral report of a cadet who has just performed a specific duty, or as an indication that the authorized occupants of a room are present at a given inspection. The system of "All right" is carefully explained to all new cadets so that there can be no mistake about its significance.

... Cadets who are found guilty of violations of the Honor Code are either allowed to resign or required to stand trial by court-martial. Cases of trial are comparatively rare, for most erring cadets prefer to leave the Academy quietly. Records of all alleged violations in which the evidence does not warrant trial are kept in a confidential file as long as the cadet remains at the Academy. When he leaves, this file is destroyed.

Ouiija, Thank you for your post. They have very high standards indeed! In this world of permissiveness, I appreciate the standards of conduct.

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm wondering ... if the Saturn was being towed behind a regular pickup truck with just a chain to tow the car, is that a legal way to tow or can people get a ticket for towing that way? If it's illegal, then if the Saturn "came off" the chain on the Weathered Barn corner, maybe the pickup truck vamoosed to avoid getting a ticket and swung back around to pick up Maura in the nick of time before LE arrived.

Illegal to use a chain. Also, driver of car needs to know how to use brake in order to keep chain taut so there is no sudden jerk. Especially true around sharp curves where the distance is effectively shortened between vehicles. At some point, either the truck stopped and the car did not stop, or the truck backed into the car. Icy roads or patches are treacherous with a chain.

50/50 chance driver of red truck knew person near crash scene.

Car most likely used to make it look like Maura simply disappeared. If Vasi hit, then car towed from Amherst. Otherwise, car towed short distance to Rt. 112 crash site due to small crash just prior.

If Maura was working at gallery on Sunday, she may not have left gallery of her own free will, the gallery being the mystery it is.

Directions on computer probably a diversion by someone with key access to her dorm room and key access to Saturn, possibly key access to gallery also. Maybe 50/50 chance Maura went north at all. Probably was staying with someone somewhere else at night prior, but used her dorm room intermittently during day, thus boxes on bed. Possibly staying with person who participated in her disappearance.

Either Maura learned something about the dark side of the art world that she was not supposed to learn, or the Saturn hit Vasi, or possibly some combination of the two, such as location of Saturn on Chestnut St. immediately prior to hitting Vasi.

Probable theft ring along I-91 corridor thriving for many years. Possible someone in Haverhill area involved in ring.

Apparently, LE and PI's think differently or don't want truth public for whatever reason.

Just some thoughts, a scenario.

Advocator, This is not a legal procedure of towing, it simply is done all the time in these rural areas...maybe the truck vamoosed..or they were towing from a different direction and they were coming back around when RO saw them.

Sorry, meant to write… If driver of red truck knew person near crash scene, then 50/50 chance truck from Bernardston.

Also meant to write… If Maura worked at gallery on Sunday, then she may not have left gallery alone or without some obligation, the gallery being the mystery that it is.

Again and still, I am out of sync...for those who give a rodents rump..I drove my 95 Saturn
oil burner North on 3 cylinders last week....5 spd.Std...creative shifting and "gee ups" were required for the 2 1/2 - 3 hr. trip.(No time lost) Annoying and frustrating...but, doable. I had done it once before, a few years back, so I wasn't worried....I have never owned an automatic..so I wouldn't know if that could make a difference. Maura and car could have made the trip North on 3 cylinders...but, of course due to her youth, not pleasantly. I have had many field beaters...and been towed by chains...Never thought of it as illegal...but just a means to an end...and never more than a mile of two.
Hello MN !!.....

gvmeabrk wrote:

Two things really bother me..
2. I remember, but, cannot find a quote from Kathleen that "Something went wrong." Any one remember this?

""I want closure," Carpenter said. "It's every day ... you wake up and wonder. My Mom keeps saying she is going to come home. I know in my heart she won't. Something went wrong."

From an article saved on this site (there are a number of the news articles on Maura here):

http://209.85.141.104/search?q =cache:DhG5s045jDcJ:z13.invisi onfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index .php%3Fshowtopic%3D1823+%22kat hleen+murray%22+and+%22somethi ng+went+wrong%22&hl=en &ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=u s

Shack wrote:

Again and still, I am out of sync...for those who give a rodents rump..I drove my 95 Saturn
oil burner North on 3 cylinders last week....5 spd.Std...creative shifting and "gee ups" were required for the 2 1/2 - 3 hr. trip.(No time lost) Annoying and frustrating...but, doable. I had done it once before, a few years back, so I wasn't worried....I have never owned an automatic..so I wouldn't know if that could make a difference. Maura and car could have made the trip North on 3 cylinders...but, of course due to her youth, not pleasantly. I have had many field beaters...and been towed by chains...Never thought of it as illegal...but just a means to an end...and never more than a mile of two.
Hello MN !!.....

Good information for comparison. Daylight in July?... as opposed to darkness in February much of a factor?

Hmmm. To clarify ...

The website where the article is located is Porchlight USA, in their section on Missing Persons in New Hampshire.

The article itself is from the Caledonian Record, written by Gary Lindsley on Monday, Oct. 23, 2006 re:

K-9 Teams Search For Student Who Disappeared In 2004

No....car doesn't go faster/slower in July as
apposed to February..night or day ..huh..what..?
Except for perhaps the age of eyesight....

Shack wrote:

No....car doesn't go faster/slower in July as
apposed to February..night or day ..huh..what..?
Except for perhaps the age of eyesight....

Sorry, I meant daylight in July might have been less of a deterent than darkess in February in deciding to drive Saturn on 3 out of 4 cylinders that far north? Would you have made the same trip with same car in same condition in February after dark? Just curious. Thanks.

What I meant was... To some people maybe breaking down mechanically is different at lunch time in July as opposed to supper time in February? Maybe it doesn't matter if you're 21 or maybe it matters more?

Advocator..your mentioning of Maura's Mom again brought me back to the stinging eyes..
only read your Post once..and then couldn't see anymore. I come to the point so many times
within these years...Dimmit..don't tell me anything..don't tell Forum/Topix anything ...but, I beg the authorities to please share with Mom and Dad. Please console them with "we are truly
working on it for you"....TWIMC ..if these words aren't to your liking..scroll on by.....

I'll add my own "nuts" Thank you...

Shack wrote:

Advocator..your mentioning of Maura's Mom again brought me back to the stinging eyes...

I hear ya, Shack. Really do.

Honestly, if Maura had been my child, LE would be *wishing* I was Fred. Fred has done all the right things, followed the procedures he has been given, and been a perfect gentleman ... doesn't deserve to be fobbed off like he has been. At the very least, LE should communicate regularly with the family.

Eurobserver wrote:

Advocator,
Interesting question there in your recent post (#3066). Someone would have to look up the statutes of the NH law here.
Now, considering that the Saturn ended up facing the wrong way at the Weathered Barn curve, i.e. facing west in the eastbound lane, it would seem to me that either
1. The Saturn - whoever was driving it - suffered a real accident at the Weathered Barn curve, spun round and ended up facing west in the eastbound carriageway.
This scenario would explain why the SBD found a young lady driver - Maura or not - sitting in the driver´s seat of the Saturn.
Of course, we still have no known corroboration of the SBD´s witness account that he actually saw and spoke with a young lady in the Saturn.
He may well have seen and spoken with a person in the Saturn, but we have only the SBD´s own words that this was a young lady looking more or less like Maura.
What if it were in fact a man in the Saturn and the SBD for whatever reason "adapted" his witness account?
I´m just pointing out - again - that, as far as we know, we only have the SBD´s word for a young lady driver actually being there.
or alternatively
2. The Saturn was quite accidentally "dropped" at the curve by a towing-truck, thus ending up the way it did, facing the traffic in the "wrong" direction.
But if this is what happened, why would the SBD find a young lady driver by the wheel of the Saturn (if we accept his account)?
She would hardly have been sitting in the driver´s seat of the Saturn while the car was being towed by a "proper" towing-truck, would she?
She would rather have been sitting in the cab of the towing-truck itself, perhaps quickly returning to the Saturn to grab some things before moving off, but hardly getting into the driver´s seat by a snow-bank.
If the Saturn was being towed by an ordinary pick-up truck with just a chain to tow the car, then the Saturn would probably not have spun round in the "wrong" direction if accidentally "dropped"/disconnect ed from the towing pick-up truck.
Admittedly, it is not impossible, but rather unlikely.
Frankly, I don´t really believe that the accident was wilfully staged at the Weathered Barn.
Why on earth stage an accident so very close to several houses, when the real wilderness is at hand less than a mile further east on rte 112?
That just wouldn´t make sense, would it?
What do you think?
Thanks for reading!

Either Saturn was towed from somewhere near Rt. 112 crash scene, probably by red truck using chain, or was towed by tow truck from Amherst because it hit Vasi or was otherwise damaged in or near Amherst.

1) If car driven to Haverhill by Maura, accompanied by red truck, and small crash occurred just prior to Rt. 112 crash scene, then red truck probably used chain to tow car short distance, causing damage. Destination, in that case, may have been house near location where Saturn was left. If so, then 50/50 chance red truck parked at driver's house in Bernardston. Meaning original idea was to ditch car up north, but Maura not told about plan, which probably made it look like Maura disappeared. Maura duped into making fatal trip north.

2) If tow truck transported car to Haverhill, then more likely car hit Vasi and needed to be ditched. In which case Maura may never have left Amherst/Northampton area. If so, then areas near Coolidge Bridge, nearby Connecticut River, and Elwell's Island should be searched.