Where is MAURA MURRAY

The New Hampshire murders link goes to a blank page.

Wowzer wrote:

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Did the Dr come to NH to look over any evidence to come up with these findings?
I'm just amazed that he can tell that the killer has done it twice before. Why could it not have been done once, three times or more times before?
How does he know there is even a killer when there is no evidence that I'm aware of that a crime was even committed.
Not trying to be a pain but just wondering how it's possible that he came to these conclusions.

You're right, there is no evidence that a crime was even committed.

She could be alive and well and working as a waitress somewhere in northern New England or Canada or somewhere else for that matter.

I've been thinking about Dr. Godwin's statement for a while, and I too have some problems with it.

First, there is apparently no evidence whatsoever that Maura was abducted and murdered -- if there was actual evidence of that (i.e., signs of a struggle, blood, etc.), I doubt that LE would have done two or three in-depth searches in the immediate area. They would have had every reason to believe she had been taken somewhere else.

Second, if there was evidence such as signs of a struggle, blood, etc., then her disappearance would have been immediately put forth as an abduction and possible murder. Instead, even her father, a couple of days later, issued a plea to her to come home and they could work out anything. So obviously whatever the "red liquid" in the car might be, it wasn't blood or Fred and Billy and other family members who saw the car would have known that.

The reason that her disappearance became possibly an abduction and/or murder is apparently solely based on the fact that her family has not heard a word from her in all this time. If I were her family, then assuming I didn't know of anything at all that could have caused her to just take off, I am sure that by now (if not before), I too would believe she had to have been abducted and probably is no longer with us. Because who, in a loving family, can believe that a family member would just go and leave them like that?

But it happens, unfortunately. For reasons a family may or may not know.

My problem with Dr. Godwin's conclusion that Maura has been abducted by a serial killer who has done the same thing at least twice in the past, is that there is no evidence to support that conclusion. The simple fact that she has not been seen or heard from since that night is not evidence of abduction or murder in the first place, and in the second place even if she was abducted and murdered it is not evidence there was a serial killer with or without prior experience. It could have been the first time for someone who just got lucky.

Advocator & all,

I very much try to keep an open mind in the case of Maura, as there are so many various alternatives as for what may have happened.

Personally, however, I do happen to think that Maura could well be suffering from a serious case of amnesia or dissociative fugue. This could also explain why the family has not heard from her, as her memory of her previous life might be temporarily erased.
I still think thare is a good chance that Maura actually was the mysterious "Rachel" in the Barton, VT, church back in June 2005.

Again, there are many alternative explanations as for Maura´s heartbreaking disappearance and I certainly do not discount other, far bleaker scenarios.
Still, I keep the hope of light burning brightly for Maura in my heart.

Euro...... citigirl stated many moons ago that the Barton sighting had been investigated.....

hi all ,can anyone think of a case where foul play is suspected and nothing is released by P.D.or family for four and a half years.all the facts we have about Maura are about her life before she vanished.P.D. says there was no foul play.what do we know about Mauras life before she vanished,she liked vailla coffee from dunkin donuts .she ran cross country for umass i think in 2002.her coach said she never ran a race for umass uh!i know i have asked this before and was banished from the old forum for asking about Mauras life is a mystery. i am writing this for anyone that may be new here or has some fresh thougts.i cannot think of one reason why ,the gallery she worked at,where and when she had classes needs to be kept a secret.i was told on the last forum that it was an unknown.if i asked mr Maitland about Briannas classes and job i am sure he would tell me or refer me to an article.r

mcsmom,

Yes, I recall that having been stated before.
None the less, I just keep asking myself how thoroughly that sighting actually was followed through.
Also, what could really have been accomplished in that respect beyond asking the witness (DS) for an account of his impressions of "Raykel"?
Not very much, I would imagine.
The track of "Rachel" had presumably gone cold long before the Barton sighting became known.
Most likely "Rachel" never had the time or the inclination to sign the visitors book in the church, which would preclude any leads from that direction.

Thus there is absolutely nothing per se which would exclude the possibility of "Rachel" possibly being Maura.
Such a possibilty most likely cannot be proved and it probably cannot be disproved either.

Let´s by all means be realistic and probe all avenues of possibilities, but let´s not do this to the point of excluding a glimmer of hope as well.
Thanks!

Euro....your clogs are too tight.....some leads can become definitive, not that we have too many of those in Maura's case.
Besides, citigirl would not speak with a forked tongue....

I mean your blogs...your blogs

whiston wrote:

she ran cross country for umass i think in 2002.her coach said she never ran a race for umass

Yet, the definite results of a race she ran for Umass in Providence RI are posted on the web....... andtook the time to made arrangements to meet up with a friend from high school who was going to school at Brown Univ. while she was there.

So she ran a race for UMass, and the coach didn't remember it. That does NOT mean there's a conspiracy. It means that the coach has had a crap-ton of students since then, and especially if Maura sat out part of a season with a hamstring injury, the coach may well have misremembered.

I couldn't tell you the whereabouts or test scores of my students from four years ago, either.

Does it matter if Maura ran competitively a time or two at UMass. The overview is she just wasn't as heavily involved in athletic competition as she'd been several years before, or in high school; there WAS the injury. And she WAS at class, clinicals, studying, and working 2 jobs, totalling who-knows-how-many hours a week!

No-one who knows her well has spoken publicly about any changes in her motivation to compete athletically. Just the injury was mentioned. Maybe there were lifestyle or emotional changes too?

Having been a high-achieving student (skipping grades but (uselessly) having no "calling") I can understand that under external or self-induced pressure (not to mention her long-distance relationship and future uncertainties at 21) there might be the possible impulse to just get the heck off that train!

elsewherebriefly wrote:

Wowzer,
Hmm, Dr. Godwin instructed a class (via satellite) in Vermont for LE only within the past few years so I think it is safe to say that he's working on it along with many other state agencies.
If you go to his website you will see he makes mention of NH Murders.
Unfortunately, NH LE apppears they don't want any help and remain tight lippped but I'm hoping that there was at least one NH State Trooper who drove to Vermont and attended that particular class.
He also offered a course, where he was there, about a year ago in Conn. that was open to the public. I announced it on Maura's website.
Dr. Godwin is the best the US has got regarding expert criminal profilers. He writes the books, instructs LE, and helps whenever he can.
Not trying to be a pain (LOL).
Weren't you the one who told Sophie Bean to get a life. Something I did not appreciate.

I very well could have elsewhere. I'm sorry you didn't appreciate it but it wasn't directed at you.
Hopefully she has taken the advice and found some new interests so she can get over her fear of the NH woods being full of Boogy men. Poor girl.
I'm really not trying to be difficult but as educated as Dr Godwin is I still don't understand how he can profile someone when there isn't anyone to profile. How is this possible when there isn't even any proof that a crime was committed? There was no evidence to my knowledge that anyone was shot, stabbed, strangled or raped so what exactly is he profiling and how did he come to the conclusion that he did????

Advocator wrote:

My problem with Dr. Godwin's conclusion that Maura has been abducted by a serial killer who has done the same thing at least twice in the past, is that there is no evidence to support that conclusion. The simple fact that she has not been seen or heard from since that night is not evidence of abduction or murder in the first place, and in the second place even if she was abducted and murdered it is not evidence there was a serial killer with or without prior experience. It could have been the first time for someone who just got lucky.

All valid points that I was also going to bring up. My other problem with it is it feeds the fuel of serial killer in the area with no scientific validity at all while being self serving for what he is selling. It is reported he claims "two others". He doesn't say some others, or that there are similarities. No, he states "two others". That implies he has very specific cases in mind. Why not tell which ones? It is scientifically dishonest to claim valid scientific methods, and give answers but not tell how the data was collected or what the methodology was, especially when you have a financial stake in the process.

Jefferson

Wowzer,

Wow, you have your doctorate in criminal psychology and forensics. You write books that are used to teach in the field of LE, I’m utterly impressed!

I’m just a cleaning lady, who gets to bring my dog with me to work each day, who asks of hell of a lot of hypothetical questions to persons whom have worked in the field the majority of their professional careers. I do have an Associates Degree in Liberal Arts and an IQ well over 120 though.

I’ve known Sophie Bean for a number of years and often found myself tailing her research on the world wide web. She has also been a great help to the Murray family.

There are boogie men who rape and murder throughout the US - 55 on any given day according to FBI stats- so what makes everyone think that their home state is exempt? Given that your winters are long and dreary one would have to take into consideration that depression plays a factor in one's behavior.

The Valley Killer, Brian Rooney, and a woman I know who was brutally beaten and raped on the side of the road in a snow bank this past year is enough confirmation for me!

The Valley Killer has never been caught, LE is still sifting through photos and trying to identify Rooney's countless victims, and they guy who raped and beat the woman I know was caught but will more than likely be out of jail in a couple of years.

Dr. Godwin is the best we’ve got. So isn’t Philpin & Ginsburg. There are also retired members of NH LE who believe the person responsible for Maura’s disappearance has done it before AND WILL DO IT AGAIN.

Jeff,

Last I checked Maura’s was a major case listed on the NHSP website. It is highly possible that Dr. Godwin has submitted his findings directly to the agency in charge of the investigation. Ever thought about that?

I fully understand that the all mighty tourist dollar is at stake. It was 7% last I checked. I guess that’s why I was NEVER warned that it was unsafe for me to be travelling alone in NH between 1985 and 2002. Lots of women were brutally raped and murdered during this timeframe.

Hey look, I just so happen to rely on the experts for guidance. Advocator is right to question these theories and look beyond what's been provided.

I sincerely think it is best that I refrain from posting on this forum any longer. I know I stated this before but this time I am keeping my word.

I'm sorry but it's been way too fucking(sorry) long. The FBI should of gotten involved and taken care of this situation but the local LE screwed up tried to make themselves look compitant by trying to solve the case themselves and screwed that up too and it blew up into what we are looking at today and it makes me sick to my stomach. They need to swallow their pride admite they suck at what they do and let someone come in who know's what they are doing take of this, it's way over due.

hi all i think it does matter very much that ran cross country for umass.it tells us where and when and how far she may have travelled.from what i have read the meets were in many states.about the coach not remembering .the team has held there own circle of hope ceremony for Maura at a big meet in Richmond V.A.wh organised that.maybe the f.b.i. was asked to get involved but when they saw the saturn etc. they knew right away it was a waste of tax dollars to try to and build a case.elsewhere please stick with it.take care philip

Oden Yolin wrote:

I'm sorry but it's been way too f******(sorry) long. The FBI should of gotten involved and taken care of this situation but the local LE screwed up tried to make themselves look compitant by trying to solve the case themselves and screwed that up too and it blew up into what we are looking at today and it makes me sick to my stomach. They need to swallow their pride admite they suck at what they do and let someone come in who know's what they are doing take of this, it's way over due.

I believe I read somewhere that the FBI reviewed the ifnormation at the Amherst level to see if it was involved with another case. Wouldn't they have carried through if they felt it were necessary? If not, aren't they just as much incompetent as the HPD or NHSP?

Hello all,

Please, check out the web site of the West Point Parents´ Club of Massachusetts and you will find a list of all MA cadets for the years 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004.

In the class of 2004 there were apparently four female MA cadets including Maura.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

Wowzer,
Wow, you have your doctorate in criminal psychology and forensics. You write books that are used to teach in the field of LE, I’m utterly impressed!

I misread it that way at first, too, but that's not what he said....he said that Dr. Godwin is that educated.

Haven't read the rest of your post, will do so now. Just wanted to see if I could clarify that one awkward bit of sentence.