Where is MAURA MURRAY

Jerry Fletcher's Comments: "Euro/BF I have looked at Euro list and though it would be difficult to speculate on some of the points, there were a few that I would like to hear opinions about…
1. Why the rag in the tail-pipe of the Saturn?
Ben, found your comments on this interesting. Didn’t Brian Rooney allegedly use a rag with chemicals to overcome some of his victims? I must say that I found this to be a curious conclusion."
I remember this from 'My Life Amongst the Serial Killers' I think John Wayne Gacy used it. Not sure, but one of them did.
But the important thing is: Whoever is investigating *might* see our speculations, think about the logic behind the conclusions based on the speculation. If its flawed somehow - the investigator will just ignore it. If it has merit, he might look and see if a chemical test was done on the rag. If no chemical test was done, and something was found - the unlikely happened (due to numerous possibilities)- they got help from us.
Part I

Part II
BF‘s comment:“If the rag was still in the trunk (requiring prior knowledge for use), then if it was used to subdue Maura, then whoever subdued her must have known her.”

Jerry's Comment: "Seems to me if the rag were in the trunk and somebody opened the trunk, it might have been seen. Doesn’t necessarily mean that the person must have known her. When I think about it, I can’t say my ‘significant other’ knows what is in my trunk or vice versa."

Anyway the logic judge is going to be the investigator. I agree with another poster that if Chloroform was used - then more likely they brought their own rag.

What do I think the logic is? Based on PI saying that she was abducted about 3 miles away - then this happened pretty fast. If someone she knew was following her, that person would have little time to subdue her, and because they couldn't see the rag, had to know it was already there.

Jerry's Comment: "9. The supposed description (by LE) that some of the alcohol in the Saturn appeared to be missing.

Jerry Quoting someone besides myself:'How could anybody know whether any of the alcohol was missing, unless the contents of the car had been observed some time previously?'"

Jerry's Comments: "Ben, you say that you’re a CPA and yet if I’m reading what you say correctly, you appear to dismiss what Weeper is suggesting."

My comment "If looking in the local area and asking the locals hasn't given a solution yet, and extensive ground searches have produced nothing - well that's for one evidence that she didn't end up where you looked. But two its evidence that something happened somewhere else.”

I believe the PI said he ruled out accidental or wandering death and the focal point of the investigation is now 1 - 3 miles from the crash site. I think he's doing what I'm talking about up there. So I don't understand what you mean.
If the 1-3 mile range comes up dry - he'll probably move on and I'm certainly not going to discourage him. Bottom line is that he's going to do what he thinks is right.

On the below - I'm guessing that your point is that he's qualified and therefore shouldn't be contradicted as implied above - but I hope I have explained that I have not so far.

Jerry's Comment "I find that curious as he has so kindly supplied us with information about the group of private investigators and I quote:"

Weeper’s post:“Allow me to explain/extrapolate on our (The Maura Murray PI Task Force Team) reasoning for not wanting and/or accepting any documents obtained from the New Hampshire Major Crimes Unit as related to this investigation. To begin with, our group of investigators has over 150 years of “criminal investigation” experience combined/jointly in every aspect of investigations. That is to say, we have experts (Court Certified Experts) in Accident Reconstruction (automobiles, trains, boats, etc.), Defense Investigators, State Police Homicide Investigators (retired, now Private Investigators), Search and Rescue Experts, Statement Analysis and Body Languish Experts and Missing Persons (cold/unsolved cases) Investigators. All these investigators come from Professional Associations from the State level and National level.”

If I had a rag to cover my face or wipe off prints, I wouldn't bend down seemingly awkwardly to put it in a hot tailpipe. I'd stuff it in my coat or something as I ran off

Whiston, I don't know about "H1" -what is "H1"?- I read #1, but do you mean to say "Haverhill 1"? This is news to me.

Do you know that they were looking for a black Saturn running drugs? Again, this is something that I've never seen before - yes, the references to the person in Woodsville at the McD with a black Saturn, but never this reference.

I thought that RO did stop at the store. The "tire tracks in the snow"? Dunno. There was not new snow, as I understand it.

I don't know where you got some of the information in this post, but it seems new to me, and shows a lot of possibilities that haven't been disussed before.

Sophie, it might have just been a theory, or the beginning of one.....because MY reaction on seeing that was, "Hunh. That might make sense. Somehow. Not sure how yet." But it's apparent there were drugs moving through the area.

Don't think he meant anything definite by it.

And yeah, I hadn't either (acceleration then thud) until I was typing that out last night. Even retyping it tonight makes me ill.

Jerry's Comments: Fred Murray stated the following in a letter to NH Governor:
“Phone records reveal that Maura called a couple who rent their condominium in Bartlett, New Hampshire, where our family has vacationed for decades, just before she left the University of Massachusetts and headed directly that way last February 9. When I recently discovered that these folks had never even been contacted by Troop F it felt as if I had just been struck across the face with a two-by-four.”
http://www.mauramurraymissing.com/Fredsletter...
I must say, I would be curious to hear some thoughts on the information presented."

Ben's comments: Based upon the directions to Stowe in her car, I have some doubt that she wanted to end up in New Hampshire. Yeah there are reports of two accidents in the area local to the car sighting - I can see how that would lead to looking onto it further. But, if that turns a fluke - I suggest that an approach be taken that assumes she wanted to drive where her directions tell use she was going - Stowe, Vermont.

[I've read that she called for reservations in Bartlett, but didn't actually book any - none available.(I can agree with Fred's disappointment - the motel wasn't called by police - doesn't show that that possibility was checked - a possibility with no speculation)]

If she intended to go to Stowe, as the directions say - she would have taken 89. Yet, the car ends up North, traveling on either 91 or 5 may be 10.

*Now I see it Sophie Bean* I AM VERY SORRY - no kidding.

But still not where her directions say she's going.

It could be that she stopped at a fast food place in White River Junction or stopped at a store and got robbed there outside.

As of now, these are the two places I think should be checked - cameras specifically - I think a possible solution lies in both places and but I also see value in eliminating the possibilities.

1. White River Junction
2. Nearby gas stations (based on report tank was nearly full) But this would be to see if she was there if at all possible to prevent a larger area hunt of resources.

paris wrote:

If I had a rag to cover my face or wipe off prints, I wouldn't bend down seemingly awkwardly to put it in a hot tailpipe. I'd stuff it in my coat or something as I ran off

Good point too.

I'm still trying to figure out why a rag in the tailpipe.

Sophie's Comments: "I did come off more harshly than may have been necessary about the "facts" - I did not mean to say that anyone was intentionally misleading. We have all had snippets of information that we have mis-read or remembered incorrectly, not with any malicious intent at all, and when those become assumptions of fact, it doesn't help the investigation."

I'M SORRY SOPHIE. I think I was harsh too. I appreciate and respect your work.

EVERYBODY HERE.

:)

Thank you very much, Ben. We'll do a lot better if we can work together.
FireCat, yes, I got that. It's just a bit confusing to see it stated that way. And yeah, as a theory, it makes sense to me - at least the mistaken black Saturn identity part. All the driving about by various people, the mysterious Bronco, the red truck...several investigators, including I think it was "MLC" or something, have said that they DON'T think drugs are part of the picture, except as a diversion. It could certainly go either way (or both or none. wow).

Ben, I believe that the stores and truck stop have had cameras checked, but I don't know that they still had the tapes from that time.

Ben is making me think a lot more about WRJ, and I wonder how much that area has been investigated. It seems very possible to me that the car ending up in Swiftwater could have been the result of events that started in or near WRJ, the most populated area enroute from UMass to Swiftwater.

But Weeper says no, or probably not, and I'm inclined to trust that. Probably within 5 miles, or even less. That narrows the possibilities a whole lot. It makes me very interested in previous crimes in that area. Tom Conrad. Pauline Clark. The gentleman who was murdered in Warren.
Again, I have more questions.

Maybe a rag was put there so the scapegoat would be stopped too......and then?

Sophie...I believe the Bronco H1 is as Post #4032 by Weeper...want more confusion?...read the report
where H2 cleared....then the officers numbers
PO42 CS. Still trying to find H1 in Log within the Maura time frame. Again the blank spot...

Thank you..(I think) Irish Terrier for your time.

This may be of interest ...

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshir...

"Police serve scores of warrants in Grafton Co.

HAVERHILL, N.H.—State, local and county authorities, joined by federal agents, have served scores of arrest warrants in New Hampshire's Grafton County."

.

Advocator,

Thanks for sharing that particular news article. Maybe it has something to do with the Governor's Crime Commission and Project Safe Neighborhoods.

Weeper,

Thank you so much for your postings in the late, your presence really means a lot.

hi sophie bean and al i miss read it .there is no H1 i should have written #1.Weeper thank you for the information.take care philip

Advocator wrote:

This may be of interest ...
http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshir...
"Police serve scores of warrants in Grafton Co.
HAVERHILL, N.H.—State, local and county authorities, joined by federal agents, have served scores of arrest warrants in New Hampshire's Grafton County."
.

Was this regarding the recent sting on drugs in the area?

Advocator wrote:

This may be of interest ...
http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshir...
"Police serve scores of warrants in Grafton Co.
HAVERHILL, N.H.—State, local and county authorities, joined by federal agents, have served scores of arrest warrants in New Hampshire's Grafton County."

Hopefully they will catch a fish for Fred.:)

Now on a totally different subject. Off topix. The image of fishing reminded me of this: http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/...

And I say this to Weeper in only a light hearted way.
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/...

I look at those pages for humor when I'm so tired from thinking, my mind is mush.

I should add that I hope that we all strive to not place Weeper in the crossfire of any disagreement.

For myself - if I have done that previously in anyway - Weeper has my unconditional apology.

I have the highest respect for Weeper and I hope he feels welcome and that when all is said and done, he will remember us as good companions. I believe we have been so far - but I humbly welcome his correction should I be incorrect.

I would like to expand this, so that, it is my goal to not be a hindrance of anyone's expression here - who knows what might help solve the case.

B. F.

To all,

Thank you all for allowing me to assist you in your pursuit in seeking out the truth and facts in this case. That being said, there is now (or will there ever be in the future) any reason for anyone to apologize to me for anything you may post here on this Topix site, regardless of the context/content of your postings. I have been doing this work for many years and my skin is to thick to take anything personal. Our goal is the same, our methodologies may differ, our scenarios and theories range from close to the mark (utilizing the facts provided you) to the obscure/obscene (ignoring those facts). This is the purpose of “open and free public dialog” on this site. I do respect the amount of time and energy you all have contributed to this end, and thank you for assisting me and our Team in doing so. To clear up a misunderstanding we were all under for some time in reference to the black Bronco type police vehicle, this unit was in fact H1 (for Haverhill unit #1) and was operated by Sgt. C. Smith on the evening of Feb. 9, 2004. So there is no “mystery Bronco” to speak of, no “rouge make-believe-police vehicle” involved in any of this situation.

Respectfully,

Weeper

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text> Was this regarding the recent sting on drugs in the area?

Hey Sandy,

I am not sure if you may have been referring to my earlier post. The heroine/drug sting I mentioned happened in a town, which was the hub for the trafficking operation, in Rockingham County.

Whiston, thanks for clarifying about "H1" - I was getting even MORE confused than usual!
I am really happy that we are working together. This feels "better" (insofar as it's possible to 'feel better' about any of it) to me than it has in a long time.
The time thing is very strange. A police log is a legal document. It requires accuracy, including accuracy about time. The reluctance, actually refusal, of LE to discuss times and the contradictions seems to me the opposite of what I'd expewct and hope from LE. One possibility is that response time to the "first accident" was negligent to the point of inviting legal action.
My biggest questions at this point,after the over-riding one - where is Maura?- in no particular order:
1) why the refusal of LE to clarify times given in a legal, public document?
2) who owns / drives the black Bronco-like vehicel with the stencilled #1? this appears to be a locally familiar vehicle - it shouldn't be so hard to determine. Shack, is it really Lincoln PD? If so, did they file a report? Apparently Monaghan, though on the scene, did not. Why not?
3) what about the blood in the closet of the A-frame? is it significant as evidence? of what? of a crime that took place there, or as something planted there to divert attention from elsewhere?
4) what's CW's real story?
5) what do the locals fear, and/or is it fear that is keeping them silent? if so, what can we do?
6) is all of this related to the Grafton County sweep by LE? or, more probably, HOW is it related?
7) if the area of interest is a 1-3 mile radius of where the car was found, how does this relate to other crimes in that exact area?
8) not expecting or wanting a public answer to this one - just putting it out there - how thoroughly has every inch of that 1-3 mile radius been searched? if not, why not? I don't mean that as critical at all, just wondering if there are reasons that any of this area hasn't been searched - and how can we do it? CAN we do it?
Saying this as diplomatically as possible - it would certainly be wonderful if everyone within that 1-3 mile radius would allow, if not welcome, a search on their property.
Also, what does the 1-3 mile radius eliminate that has been previously considered "significant"? The first thing that comes to mind is the property just northeast of the easterly 112-116 intersection - pretty sure that's closer to 5 miles. I've only driven that circuit about a hundred times - barely an exaggeration.
There are some other areas well within the 1-3 miles which seem to have previously been dismissed - maybe those areas are functionally unsearchable.
Also, the account placing "someone in a hoodie hurrying / behaving furtively 4-5 miles east" specifically focuses attention outside the 1-3 mile radius, doesn't it?