Where is MAURA MURRAY

The lakes were frozen solid. The ground with those listed exceptions, frozen solid. Someone would have had to chop a hole big enough to pass a body through in the lakes. That would be a lot of work as the ice was probably pretty thick at that time. Have you ever tried to chop ice?

I didn't think it was being negative, just realistic. Was wondering if you would be able to reduce that search area at least a little.

Doing surveys from satelite photos to look for likely spots a body could be is a very good idea. That should show how many possible places a body could be in a 10 or 20 mile radius.

Bill

Quoted Quote Quote: "LT. Scarinza in his remarks ***First**** said there was a note and alluded to the fact that the note was a suicide note. Because UMass Police told the family they found no note."

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I'm just a Caveman. Your world frightens and confuses me. Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic make me want to get out of my BMW.. and run off to the White Mountains, or wherever...

But there is one thing I do know, either the suicide note had magical powers or LT. Scarinza killed Maura.

Thank You.

What about the ice houses on the lake? If you can make a hole to fish, you can make another hole to.........?

U Caveman Esq... I'm just a poster. Your world enlightens and amuses me....

Please elaborate.

paris wrote:

What about the ice houses on the lake? If you can make a hole to fish, you can make another hole to.........?

The problem with bodies in water is they always pop up. A body in water that cold would be preserved very well for a considerable period and when it did surface it would make itself known. Look at Laci Peterson and Conner and that was in an ocean bay. A very large, very deep body of water. And this would be no 8 inch hole. This would have to be much larger. Unless you did parts. But that would make pieces showing up even more likely.

Bill

Yeah Bill is right- the only way to get around that is if you attach cinder blocks or something to the body to weigh the body down. I don't think he would of made that much effort. I think it is more likely that he dumped the body somewhere around the lake. Maybe he lives by the lake and/or is familiar with the lake and the surrounding area. I mean if you think her disappearance is connected to other disappearances then it could be possible that he uses the same area to get rid of the bodies.

The perfect area would be on a lake of that size. There is so much area, a lot of it especially on the opposite side of where the road is looks deserted. There are just a bunch of trees and forests. There is no reason for anyone to go explore that area. I mean if he has killed/abducted before maybe he has a certain place? I don't know just speculating.

After learning about the type of girl Maura is I seriously doubt she ran away and has been missing for 4 years. Unless she is being held captive somewhere (which is unlikely too after such a long time) I feel as though this is a criminal case and more should be done to bring her home to her family. Someone has to know something about her disappearance and where she might be. After 4 years you would think someone would have something to say even if it is from a third party.

Hello all,

The trouble with Maura´s case is, basically, that there are such a number of possible scenarios available. I don´t really know what to believe anymore and have been going from one theory to the next.
I´m considering compiling a list of more or less plausible theories, scenarios and suggestions, where some may be overlapping while others would be cancelling eachother out.

I keep coming back to the apparent fact that the Grafton County dispatch log by all accounts seems to have been "white-washed" for approx. some 90 minutes between ca 6 pm and ca 7.30 pm on Monday 9th February 2004.

It is my opinion that this just cannot be a mere co-incidence timewise as for its correlation to Maura´s disappearance.
The big question here is, of course, how it would be possible and feasible to expect a substantial amount of people to keep absolutely quiet about such a "black-out" for 4 1/2 years?
Still, this would seem to be the case.
How and why?

Ideas, please....
Thanks!

The problem with a few or even several cinder blocks is they won't work. First they are not heavy enough. Everyone underestimates the buoyancy of a dead body when it decomposes. Even if there are enough weights attached to arms, legs, head, and waist. Eventually the body decomposes enough to fall apart and again things start popping to the surface. Bodies in water are usually discovered and water cadaver dogs are great at finding them even if they are decomposing under the water.

Its not impossible but I think it very unlikely she was disposed of in a lake by tucking her under the ice.

Bill

I guess I agree with that now. But taken to a fish house for example, would hide someone until the next step......We talked about this once before and why go down French Pond Road?

Hello Peter,
You use the term 'black out' and I think about all the things we do not know.......naturally it would seem like a black out to us.
Main thing to me today is Maura could have waited for her upcoming checks,(more money) to run away with....she meant to call her bo later and fully intended to make good on the forms she needed for the insurance company. We think this because they were actually in the car. To me, it seems like she was going to do a stop, be somewhere around the time she needed to be, for the phone call to Fred.
The timing is right in there for that, yet she vanishes. Alot *was* going on at the time and we know there were at least 4 officers at or near the Saturn location. One who says he got the call at 7 or 7:30, One has since passed on and one who saw nothing therefore investigated nothing.....huh? The other officer I am not sure of and wonder about the official looking vehicle said to have stopped at the scene briefly. It was said it was white though, so how could we think it was Smith in the black Bronco. I'm sure the witness driving home from Cottage Hospital can tell black from white. It was about 7:15 she says and the cars were nose to nose with no one around. A *black* bronco and no one around. What comes first, the chicken or the egg, I'm serious. Why can't they be made to be accountable, by someone, anyone, in the name of the law? Were they or just one *he* there before the attention was called to a *galldarned*, new accident?

The board giveth, the board taketh away.
I just had the post before last plucked, must have hit a nerve.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

looking4amoose,
You must not have been an active member on Maura's forum when that Oct. 07 Union Leader Article was published.
Many who care about Maura and her family could not bring themselves to read it.
Thanks for the quotes just the same.

Actually I was a member of the forum then......are you saying that Sharon didn't say those things? If she didn't, she really should pressure the Union Leader to print what she did say---out of respect at least.

WTF wrote:

Depending on the amount of moisture in the soil the ground would have probably been like concrete to a considerable depth. There is a lot of moisture in the soil in that area I suspect. Near rivers and lakes and the soil type holds a lot of that water.
Bill

I believe the frostline is 42" in that part of NH in February--and in January of 2004, there were many many days that barely went above 0.

Does it really matter that Fred said what he did about going off on a mountain when he got too old? This was the early days of hearing conflicting info, being told to report Maura in her own state as missing, all the thoughts racing through everybodys weary minds, and Fred dares to say outloud many things, no doubt they would toss everything around, crazy or not. I think this is much different than:
Maura has been depressed, she's not getting along with her boyfriend, she had this book and I think she is suicidal. Maybe she drove here to kill herself.
That was all said by you know who and Sharon has tried to get them to recant and give it out straight to the media, reporters and such.
Yes, Sharon said the police flat out lied, taking things out of context and making it seem as though Maura and Billy were having tough times.
Scarznia was brought in to determine what this may have been and he can't even get the note "to Maura", "from Maura" note left behind story, straight. It just isn't right to build a case on someone when you have family telling you there's just no way. Why wouldn't they listen, what could make them so sure?

And then they come and secure "evidence", take back Maura's belongings, for what? To someday throw the book at her? No! To really start taking this whole thing seriously. Before that police went and *shook* CW for a story, almost as if to show Maura was surely fine. Those of us who know this story well just shake our heads, we have to wonder.

Euro, thank you for answering my question regarding "helper/passenger".. .
My thoughts are different about a possible "accomplice"...?
I think that if someone, unethical/immoral would ditch a car to cover up a prior hit n run, they wouldn't pack their car with personal items.
They/s/he would find a heavy crime area..park the car..leave it unlocked and the car would disappear..perhaps in parts. That could be easily
accomplished within a shorter distance of over 100 miles. I don't think, never have, that Maura had anyone with her or following.

I have been away the last few days....and came back to read what I have missed. I wish the analytical could tone it down a wee bit for those
of us who do "feel"...intuition IS a word after all. I "feel" every time I drive Lily Pond Road ...I feel when I drive by Lake Tarleton (315 acres shore 3.7 miles..not a large lake)
The roads into Tarleton are private residences and Youth Camp.

Paris, forgive if I read a Post of yours wrong..HPD had only Sgt.CS and 2 new rookie officers on duty that night...(both gone now)
unless you are counting SP Mon.....as far as the DL reads, the 2 officers weren't mentioned re: 112 "incident"...

For new readers/posters or twimc....we who started out in the Maura Murray Missing FIRST FORUM and hung in there with the SECOND FORUM are not ashamed to still be here.....
No matter what is said to us or written about us....united we stand. We hang in there.....just because.....of justice....

PS Paris I agree 100% with your last Post....and because I do agree...my intuition "feels" that you will get a "nuts..clueless...etc "..

I'm not going to be very active much more - got other responsibilities - but I might pop in on occassion when I need a break.

I think that if there was foul play - I don't think it likely her body was left in the area -{unless the foul play happened in a private building.}

I think good points are made here about the condition of the ground and the lake. There is that additional obstacle for a dumper to deal with before the search started a few days later.

In 4 years, no one has come forward and said they saw *someone* roaming the remote areas with a shovel (or another combination of behavior - suspicious or not [construction crew comes to mind].)

If there was a perpetrator (likely I agree)- that person would probably want some isolation from the search that would come up in the near future. That's another reason why I really question the likelihood that the car was moved only 1-3 miles to cover up whatever happened. That distance is not going to shelter a bad guy from arousing suspicion from onlookers when goes disposing.

On another subject I should point out that my "secret boyfriend theory" is incompatible with her being abducted at White River Junction. Its gotta be 1 or the other, not both.

Another thing is that no one knows for certain Maura's motives. So in thinking about what could have happened to her - some things could be true if the assumption is that her motive was to leave. Like a given in Geometry.

In using this "Given" given, you can only conclude certain conditional certainties. If she wanted to leave.(The word if, in the sentence, states that there is a condition.)

So here is a conditional what if:

Also it occurred to me that it is possible - at least in my mind - that Maura crashing her Dad's car may have actually been an unsuccessful attempt to accomplish whatever was accomplished with the second crash.

Whatever was accomplished I can guess.

Also on a time line - For now I think that folks should help Advocator with whatever she needs.

If I didn't have other projects I was working on, I might want to participate - but I can't.

I was really hoping to find a good place to put a time line where serious collaborators could create something like the 9/11 timeline here: http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp...

Problem is I can't get a response from historycommons and I just don't know where to go, what to install (even if I had a server) how to install PHP to create something like the historycommons.

In my opinion it would be worth the effort because everything there is backed up with some reference.

But it shouldn't be just facts - and that's the historycommons undiscovered strength in my opinion. It has both a filtering capability and
the ability to build sub events. I think the main time line should be built upon facts everyone agrees on, but then separate speculative time lines can be created and merged against the facts, plus detailed discussions and theories about items or actions taken can be discussed fairly in others. They could cross reference each other.

It would also be critical to know what goes where. Not to forget cross references - be able to use the timeline to know what theories are incompatable.

The point is to not have any bias - throw the theories together and see what happens.

At the end of the day - there should be some solid conditional possibilities. And those can be tested to see if they stand up to the test of reality outside what was already known by the public.

Oh and on the "Helper/Passenger" some of the very real possibilities of what could have happened requires a companion for it to be realistic. Certainly her leaving and starting a new life is a much more viable possibility if she had financial support after she left.

Just to add - I think it more likely that a bad guy would take Maura FAR AWAY from the area.

But since there isn't much traffic in the area - and the time constraint on how long it takes a car to get there from Amherst (outside of the area)- I think the likelihood that it was a random bad guy is very low - so that is where people get the idea that she started a new life - along with her turning down help from Mr. Atwood (unless you don't believe him and assume it was him)the very small time window, etc.

The most plausible explanation is that she had an accomplice.

But what if Maura is driving alone and she's seen in the process driving a long lonely road......maybe stopping for gas. food, break....or the other idea of an accident. Someone who has followed the progression would have time to put something together.
When Dru Sjodin disappeared, a guy I know told me about his CB and all his friends with theirs, and they could be on something in a heartbeat. Even just finding whoever was talking, they could find each other.

Ben Franklin wrote:

<snip>
In 4 years, no one has come forward and said they saw
*someone* roaming the remote areas with a shovel (or another combination of behavior - suspicious or not [construction crew comes to mind].)<snip>

Yes but don't forget about the man
with the knife and the story that his brother may have done this.
That the girlfriend was acting strange at the time,
that he thought this could be true and so he gave Fred the knife.
If Maura was harmed by these people, they could put her under the floorboards, in a freezer, you name it. So, I really hope the police checked that one HUGE lead to the fullest and can report back to Fred either way.