Where is MAURA MURRAY

Ben Franklin wrote:

Just to add - I think it more likely that a bad guy would take Maura FAR AWAY from the area.

I don't know that I agree with that. Most killers, especially serial killers hunt in cities. They often drive their victims far away but this is because they need to hide what they have done in a reasonable fashion. I believe that they drive long distances away from the initial location to hide what they have done and deflect suspicion from the area it happened and their links to the deed. That might not be needed in the Whites. Plenty of very secluded areas in the woods nearby that people almost never travel through. He or they might take them far but if there is little risk of the body being discovered nearby they might not go that far. Pure guesswork on my part.

Bill

As for taking Maura far away from the area, what area are we talking about if it was *not* Maura driving after all? I keep thinking someone had something on her and she was going to make good. It seems like she didn't want to go. That in the week prior she was at loose ends and seemed at times to want to tell people. Yet even the friend Maura spent time with on Sunday was suprised to learn of the accident the night before. Some people on campus may have been targets to/for something, I don't know. But I want to point out that Maura did socialize and invited a friend to dine along with Dad while he was in town. She knew she'd be getting another car, brand new or not and she knew which one. If she had to hide something with the Saturn, why not pay someone to take it and wreck it somewhere. If there was another person in the phone call "Vasi's" been hit theory, why not have them take the car away so you could seem calm like a cucumber and say something like, "oh, my car is gone, what? Where could it be"........
Instead we have a 'worried' Maura who seems to be pondering what she was about to do, with just telling Billy or her dad what the problem was.

Thank you, Quija for that list. It is definitely helpful. When I read the following, I am left wondering just what BF means:
Also it occurred to me that it is possible - at least in my mind - that Maura crashing her Dad's car may have actually been an unsuccessful attempt to accomplish whatever was accomplished with the second crash. Whatever was accomplished I can guess.
As to a timeline, I know whiston questions the ‘source’ of the information, but I believe the original timeline was backed by quotes from the newspapers (primarily the Caledonian Record, IIRC) and Mrs. R’s notes of the events, and yet people wanted the information presented differently and apparently still do. As a result someone ever so kindly put up the Wiki page. Advocate has also done a great job of organizing info in another format. Whiston you say you have access to the old forum, perhaps you could organize the information and add it here.Just how many timelines and what sources of information would be believable so some people is a mystery to me. Ben you indicate that your responsibilities preclude active involvement in helping prepare another timeline and yet you seem to be the strongest advocate and yet you seem to bop in just when there is some serious discussion to bring the subject back to YOUR theory. I’ve always reacted somewhat negatively to your posts and well as a few others. There is one word that particularly troubled me…”accomplice”. The following are excerpts from a google search for the term “definition accomplice”:
a person who joins with another in carrying out some plan (especially an unethical or illegal plan)
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
At law, an accomplice is a person who actively participates in the commission of a crime, even though they take no part in the actual criminal offence. For example, in a bank robbery, the person who points the gun at the teller and asks for the money is guilty of armed robbery....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accomplice
Accomplice is a 1946 black-and-white film. The film, from Producers Releasing Corporation (PRC), was shot in four days.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accomplice (1946 film)
A cooperator; An associate in the commission of a crime; a participator in an offense, whether a principal or an accessory
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/accomplice
A person who, knowingly, assists the primary perpetrator in a crime.
www.karmayog.org/childsexabuse/childsexabuse_...
In fraud, a partner to the fraud scheme. See also Perpetrator and Shill.
www.foriuscommunities.com/mod/glossary/view.p...
What exactly are you implying with your comments about an ‘unsuccessful attempt to accomplish whatever was accomplished” and ‘whatever was accomplished’ you can guess. I’m not being obtuse, I’d really like to know what you’re talking about…what could possibly have been accomplished by having an accident in her father’s car on Saturday/Sunday? And, if you are using the word ‘accomplice’ correctly, what exactly are you saying?

Part 2

WTF, in the past, I have to tell you that I found many of your posts offensive. Now, however, I actually find them informative. You are appear knowledgeable about many things and have added some useful information in the past few days, I hope you keep up in that endeavor.
Caveman…appropriate handle. While I didn’t always like the discussions of alcohol on MMM, at least I understood the camaraderie it represented. Your ‘attempts’ at humor are just offensive.
Paris your theory about the accident and the possibility had for some reason turned around and was heading west is interesting and seems to actually fit better with how the vehicle was found.
Don’t remember who posted the link to “Brian’s” website, but I had gone there quite a while ago. Strange, there seem to be more drawings…Did anybody else notice what appears to be the word Powell on the left side of one of the pages. I wish I could read some of the other words better.
Curious you mention that SBD said Maura was shivering. While it is certainly possible that this was from the cold, it could also have been from shock either from the accident itself or an injury.
I found this by Mcsmom most interesting. Why 44? For some reason this number is very familiar though I can’t for the life of me remember why.
44 was a number we sometimes based our discussions on.

Jerry Fletcher wrote:

WTF, in the past, I have to tell you that I found many of your posts offensive.

No problem. Some of my posts were meant to be offensive so it was a good match if the ones I intended were the one you found offensive. I have no issues doing that when I feel it’s necessary. Some people want to shout down information that they disagree with. It seemed acceptable on the MM forum, it isn’t here. Even that caveman guy gets to play. We are free to ignore anything we want. Some find the analytical part too difficult. I assume it makes their head hurt. I am not sure how you actually figure something out without figurin', you know, doing the analysis part. But they can skip those parts and do the other bits.

I am happy that you also find some of the posts informative. I am not particularly bright but fortunately I have access to some bright people.

Bill

Hi Jerry- I posted the website link to Brian's predictions. I thought it was very interesting. I didn't know it had been discussed earlier in the forum back in the beginning. But you are correct when you say there are more pictures. According to Brian, he put new information including pictures up on his website.

I made out a few words on his pictures which I found interesting. I didn't post them earlier but here is what I made out
(1) The first picture I make out the word Powell- just like you had mentioned

(2) Second picture at the top says "Maura ---was something (I think it says the word truck) driver pulled over" and on the right side I make out the word "coming back"

(3) In the last picture at the top I make out the words "West Thompton" and "Baldwin" and the words "dark dark" and on the left hand side I make out the words "16 Merrill Access Road Thompton NH"...There are other words that I just can't make out on the last picture because they are so faded

Now if you map out 16 Merrill Access Road it is RIGHT near the Lake Tarleton I was talking about yesterday...same with Thompton area...maybe he took that road?

Also, on the reference that she may be in shock...I doubt it. She was seen walking/running down the street. If she was in shock at that moment, she wouldn't be able to think properly..she held a conversation with Atwood. he said nothing about her state of mind...he said nothing about her seeming confused, anxious, breathing rapidly etc

Shock is a life-threatening condition that occurs when the body is not getting enough blood flow and it requires IMMEDIATE intervention. She wouldn't of gone too far if she was going into shock. The only type of shock consistent with a young person in a car accident is hypovolemic shock which occurs when the body has inadequate blood volume. There were no signs that she lost any blood UNLESS she was involved in another accident. However, no blood was seen in the car...

Most likely she was just cold, maybe the heat stopped working? so she was driving in the cold for awhile...maybe that's why she had her hair down too. I know they said that she likes to wear it in a bun but I know when I am cold I keep my hair down.

JF...I don't have exact answers except Silky's near death experience(from her accident) and her "7 oclock dream", coupled with some thoughts of my own led to some very analytical/mathematical theories. I guess it was sort of trying to incorporate "para normal" activity with good sound reasoning. Perhaps we were trying to give phsychic phenomena a boost, to be better accepted, generally speaking, as a credible tool for searches.
I spent a little time yesterday trying to figure out what Silky may have thought about LG's post #4468.
So I googled 4468 nh for the heck of it.....

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Electorate, your Presidential candidates frighten and confuse me.

When I hear names like Obama Biden Laden and John Mc Walking Stick, I ask myself how did the big Caveman Chief name these people. I don't know, I'm just a Caveman, my primative mind can't grasp these things.

Jerry Fletcher wrote:

Curious you mention that SBD said Maura was shivering. While it is certainly possible that this was from the cold, it could also have been from shock either from the accident itself...[I deleted the rest of your sentence by accident and was too lazy to start over.)

Jerry --- I think MM's family said the Saturn's heater wasn't working well. So it could've been a combination of things; or maybe (Maura or not driving) this "girl" had been standing outside for a while, 1-3 miles away at the "first accident", before winding up in the 112 snowbank.... neither girl had much body fat by the descriptions...

WTF --- can't remember if it was you saying, "of course railroads and roads follow rivers due to the flat topology!" (paraphrased); there are also several almost-parallel "back roads" on the other side of the river, tracks, and Rt 302. That's historically normal too, I believe.

I am not sure about psychic phenomena. I always thought I had psychic ability until, after several quite humiliating tests administered by my scientist-husband, I now admit to being correct at the approximate percentage of pure chance.

Also, WTF, if I sound huffy here maybe I am?--- I too am aware of the history and development of towns and transportation, etc. I may be "slow or challenged" (!!!) as someone said here, but not tremendously. Near here, the Old Middlesex Canal transported everything between Boston and Lowell until it became obsolete with train tracks built a stone's throw away on the same flat land by the canal. This was also (further off this off-topic) the canal that Henry David Thoreau canoed on illegally to do his nature meditation before returning to his hut at Walden Pond after stopping for a hefty dinner and laundry at a relative's home in Concord. Yeah, this was definitely a huffy paragraph.

But --- still wonder if a Grafton County DOC ex-con agricultural worker knew the woods, paths, and farmland (thanks to a local poster I see the DOC owns woods and wetlands too) not too far from where Weeper guessed the first accident might've occurred.

And, Jerry, in regard to the posters here each taught me something --- it was OH MY who gave the helpful instructions when we were all losing posts, to "right click SELECT ALL, then right click COPY" and you'll never lose a post again. And Beagle Bart taught me that even when you feel a kindred spirit to someone online, it's probably wise to stay at least a bit anonymous... See you all when computer's back --- good luck 'til then.

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>WTF --- can't remember if it was you saying, "of course railroads and roads follow rivers due to the flat topology!" (paraphrased); there are also several almost-parallel "back roads" on the other side of the river, tracks, and Rt 302. That's historically normal too, I believe.
Also, WTF, if I sound huffy here maybe I am?--- I too am aware of the history and development of towns and transportation, etc. I may be "slow or challenged" (!!!) as someone said here, but not tremendously. Near here, the Old Middlesex Canal transported everything between Boston and Lowell until it became obsolete with train tracks built a stone's throw away on the same flat land by the canal. This was also (further off this off-topic) the canal that Henry David Thoreau canoed on illegally to do his nature meditation before returning to his hut at Walden Pond after stopping for a hefty dinner and laundry at a relative's home in Concord. Yeah, this was definitely a huffy paragraph.

Yes it was I that stated about the rails and highways and rivers.

I don’t know what you mean about huffy? I actually found that information interesting about the canal though I had heard of it. I also find it interesting about your relative and HDT.

Bill

WTF --- it was HDT's aunt IIRC, definitely not a relative of mine. We don't go back here in the U.S. that far! Now I'm really putting the tarp over this computer, hard as it is to do!

Jerry Fletcher wrote:

Part 2
WTF, in the past, I have to tell you that I found many of your posts offensive. Now, however, I actually find them informative. You are appear knowledgeable about many things and have added some useful information in the past few days, I hope you keep up in that endeavor.
Caveman…appropriate handle. While I didn’t always like the discussions of alcohol on MMM, at least I understood the camaraderie it represented. Your ‘attempts’ at humor are just offensive.
Paris your theory about the accident and the possibility had for some reason turned around and was heading west is interesting and seems to actually fit better with how the vehicle was found.
Don’t remember who posted the link to “Brian’s” website, but I had gone there quite a while ago. Strange, there seem to be more drawings…Did anybody else notice what appears to be the word Powell on the left side of one of the pages. I wish I could read some of the other words better.
Curious you mention that SBD said Maura was shivering. While it is certainly possible that this was from the cold, it could also have been from shock either from the accident itself or an injury.
I found this by Mcsmom most interesting. Why 44? For some reason this number is very familiar though I can’t for the life of me remember why.
44 was a number we sometimes based our discussions on.

Offensive. Welcome to the dredges of a public forum. Get over it.

Jerry Fletcher wrote:

Part 2
[text deleted] I found this by Mcsmom most interesting. Why 44? For some reason this number is very familiar though I can’t for the life of me remember why.
44 was a number we sometimes based our discussions on.

Bruce McKay's call # when he was on duty was "44."

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>
WTF --- can't remember if it was you saying, "of course railroads and roads follow rivers due to the flat topology!" (paraphrased); there are also several almost-parallel "back roads" on the other side of the river, tracks, and Rt 302. That's historically normal too, I believe.
Also, WTF, if I sound huffy here maybe I am?--- I too am aware of the history and development of towns and transportation, etc. I may be "slow or challenged" (!!!) as someone said here, but not tremendously. Near here, the Old Middlesex Canal transported everything between Boston and Lowell until it became obsolete with train tracks built a stone's throw away on the same flat land by the canal. This was also (further off this off-topic) the canal that Henry David Thoreau canoed on illegally to do his nature meditation before returning to his hut at Walden Pond after stopping for a hefty dinner and laundry at a relative's home in Concord. Yeah, this was definitely a huffy paragraph.

No, WTF, wasn't "huffy." The word is "ridicule." I also caught that Quija.

I can see differing opinions being justifiable and open to "debate;" however, there is a difference between debating an opinion and ridiculing an opinion.

One is with good intention and the other is meant to, well, duh, ridicule.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
No, WTF, wasn't "huffy." The word is "ridicule." I also caught that Quija.
I can see differing opinions being justifiable and open to "debate;" however, there is a difference between debating an opinion and ridiculing an opinion.
One is with good intention and the other is meant to, well, duh, ridicule.

Darn, I've gotta shut the computer down for construction repair dust, but how can I if I need to explain now that I wasn't ridiculing anyone! Except myself and what I thought were my psychic abilities. And I WAS being huffy because I thought WTF didn't think I understood the natural evolution of road-river-railway, and I wanted to let him know i wasn't a total idiot. And that was an overreaction to nothing. I was ridiculing Henry David Thoreau's thinking he was off in the woods on his own, when in reality he had a lot of back-up in town, sort of like a kid at college. He also didn't feel he had to obey the rules of the canal and that irritated me. But what was I ridiculing?? Are you talking about the psychic stuff? And I honestly was grateful to OH MY for the click and save stuff regarding our lost posts. The only time I used ridicule, I think, was when I got all heated up about the Accident Report; I was a sarcastic jerk in regard to the inconsistencies. So --- what did you mean?

Lady Gray, Oops! You weren't talking about ME ridiculing, were you? Ha ha! I guess i AM challenged! I just went into a long rant for nothing! Reminds me of Gilda Radner on Saturday Night Live, when she totally missed the point and ranted about "Violins in America". Sorry!

Quija--yes, it was HDT's aunt. She also paid his property tax and got him out of jail whence he wrote "Civil Disobedience."

Going back to Nerdsville now. ;-) Carry on, all.

hi all. back to normal now.does the picture of Maura with Billy with the desk behind them have the book not without peril on it someone here mentioned having it could you you look at the jacket and see if the binding edge matches the photo .thank you philip.

Damn, I was being spanked and didn't know it.

B

Philip, it COULD be a copy of Not Without Peril, but I can't tell for sure. The picture quality, for one, is poor enough that I can't enlarge it enough to read the title. For another thing, I own the paperback version and that's a hardcover edition. While the cover photo is similar to the image on the spine in the photo, the spine itself on my copy is solid blue.

There's also a mark on the spine in the photo that looks like it could be a sticker for a call number, suggesting it may be a library book.

Why do you wonder, I wonder? Just curious? Curious enough that if someone got me a better quality image I could enlarge it? If there's reason enough, I can certainly do it.

I also don't even know for sure whose room they're in....