Where is MAURA MURRAY

I don't think anyone doubts that Maura bought that alcohol. In fact I've never to my memory read anything to that effect. What people are trying to figure out is...where it went. Did it disappear with Maura? Did she drop it off with someone on campus? Someone on the road? Did she drink some of it?

That's the stuff no one knows. But she's been videotaped as purchasing alcohol, and IIRC the receipt might have been in the car? No one doubts its purchase....just its whereabouts.

Benjamin Franklin wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, of course its speculation. Its very good speculation because it answers a lot of unanswered questions.
If one doesn't want a solution (not pointing at JMO in particular)- one can make blanket ridicule statements - or come on here and stir up pointless arguements to get the board off topic with a barage of allies and sock puppets, so after a certain amount of time passes - someone can declare her legally dead and it can be said that a massive effort was made to find her. That's the game that looks like is being played here.

One would sincerely hope that there is no game whatsoever being played here.

We've got several people here that rerally don't add anything to finding a solution - they have a vested interest in shooting down anyone with an idea or set of parameters that could lead to some clarity.

It is not for any of us to judge, Ben, who does or does not add anything to finding a solution. Sometimes even the most seemingly random bit of information or theory can jiggle something loose for the actual boots on the ground working the investigation. For the most part, I believe that people's primary concern--and I mean almost all the posters without exception--is finding out what happened to Maura. The other stuff is just, pardon my vernacular, bullshit.

Always some kind of backhanded comment from someone here.

This comes from all sides and all directions now. Everyone's busy calling the kettle black and it truly has to stop.

Euro thought of something I didn't about an additional possible reason for Maura leave. I give him credit for it.

The secret boyfriend? Just trying to clarify. It's been bandied about on and off, but Euro did do a really thorough job of laying his (his? her?) theory out and the reasoning behind it. I haven't commented on it specifically because I just flat-out don't know. It's my instinct that she left Massachusetts of her own volition and something went awry in NH. That's as specific as I can comfortably get right now in my theory. I haven't the remotest clue why, with or without whom, or etc.

I've been skeptical about her driving a car that hit Vasi because of the 1/2 hour shifts at her job and the likely records of a phone call. I do consider that the car could have been subsequently parked and the person then walked over to where Maura was, and delivered upsetting news.
Also - could the physically impossible car damage be explained by the Vasi incident or was the car undrivable when found (making this possible explanation impossible? I don't know.)

I don't know too. I **think** that the car started right up again when Fred and Billy went to Lavoie's, but I know that it's also said it was undriveable that night. So, again, I don't know what's what on that. And I agree with you, I don't think Maura could have been doing the driving if her car was involved in the accident with Vasi.

Could the car have been put in the back of a truck and dropped off there?(Like Knight Rider - yeah cheasy I know) Explains lack of gas purchase records.

Ok, the reference to Knight Rider was pretty funny. Lack of gas purchase records.....I know that, unless it's the credit card kind that I have to sign for, I'm often guilty of pitching them at the gas station. Especially if I've paid with cash. Or else stuffing them in my pocket (or in my wallet with the cash). So those records could conceivably be with Maura and the missing alcohol and backpack. Or who even knows....the car COULD have been towed. Not likely, I don't think, especially not for any great distance, but....sure....why not? Who's to say it didn't?

Just read a news story on cnn.com about Brianna Denison's killer.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/09/15/grace.bri...

How is this related to Maura, you ask? Maybe it isn't, but one paragraph got some wheels turning. I'd always been the first to think that the random pairs of underwear in the area of Maura's disappearance were just that--random--but here's an excerpt from the article that...well, just have a read:

"But the killer left an unusual "calling card." According to authorities, he has a fetish for women's lingerie and makes it a habit to take the panties of his victims, leaving behind the previous victim's."

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text> the reality is, that if Maura had been previously sexually abused by a friend or family member, she probably chose to leave her life behind. Not sure why that is so hard to believe--it happens every day! Her actions leading up to her disappearance lend themself to the image of a very troubled young lady---more than just stress type troubles. Is it wrong to investigate what was troubling her? Maybe the family didn't even know what she had been through before.......again, its not unheard of. I am sure I am not popular for saying it, but many people get very defensive about her past--if anything they should be forthcoming with information on her life to disprove it. Choosing to leave a life behind doesn't make her a bad person---it makes her a person with strong self preservation skills. Nobody is asking for anyone else info--just Maura's. The family say how outgoing she is, how people turned to her for advice, yet the people I have been able to contact that went to UMass with her in the nursing program, said she kept to herself--that "she seemed liked a nice person".
The race she ran for Umass was 4/13/2002. She ran the 3000 meter run and finished 9th. It was in Providence at Brown University. Here's the results:
http://www.gonu.com/wtrack/2002/browninvit.ht...

Whether she was sexually abused, suddenly distraught as to be suicidal, or any number of possibilities suggested, I do not believe it is within the providence of strangers to dispute the beliefs that Maura's family hold dear about her personality, habits and character.

You know, any parent who momentarily loses sight of their toddler or child, or who doesn't receive a promised check-in from a teen can appreciate that moment of panic.
If we can imagine the sustained panic and grief throughout these years, and the heartbreak of the unknown, who would want to increase the burden of Maura's family's pain? At the very least, my friends who have lost their teens to sudden death know where are they are.

On the other hand, if Fred Murray and family are asking for the help that is freely given here, and they are not offended...then, by all means, it is none of my business.

Does anyone receive feedback from him?

Firecat,

Wendy Morello's investigation somehow escaped me but I spent the morning reading up on the in depth investigation by MA & Maine Authorities.

Wendy was from the Worcester area and was found in York, Maine months after being reported missing. A man walking his dog found her in a wooded area behind the Kittery Outlets.

I am not attempting to link her homicide to Maura. Wendy and three other victims were petite in stature, dark complexions, and led high risk lifestyles.

I am not trying to create drama either. I learned quite a bit and this is what I'm implying.

There is extensive info on the profile of the perpertator that was very informative. MA LE & the Attorney General have gone to great lenghts to inform the public which I think is commendable.

I thought I read that there was an arrest for the murders just before Maura's forum shut down. A young man who drove a truck? However, I couldn't find any recent articles to substantiate this.

http://www.stalkinc.com/profile3.htm

http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkiller_news/H/H...

http://archive.seacoastonline.com/2004news/09...

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text> the reality is, that if Maura had been previously sexually abused by a friend or family member...

I'm going to confess that this is a topic I do not like. I'll apologize in advance for getting angry if this topic continues without presenting evidence that she avoided an abuser like the plague. Without that evidence - I think this topic is not one that should be persued.

So, I'm only going to say why I think family abuse is very unlikely, and then never address the question again - its just too much.

If abuse were taking place - she would have most likely stopped talking to her family a lot earlier. Considering her Dad's recent visit - several pictures of Maura happy with her family - she'd have no reason to stay in toch after going to West Point (3?) years earlier.

But the kicker is that she wasn't living at home anymore for the most part. All she had to do was avoid her dad if he showed up. That would have been sufficient. She could have not told her dad she transfered to Umass - I think her Mom would keep it quiet if it were that sirious.

For these reasons - I consider this possibility unlikely in the extreme - so much that better judgement calls for the topic to cease.

Egad. I don't think it's a topic or a possibility any of us LIKE, Ben. Definitely agree with you there. And "family" is a pretty broad-sweeping term. An uncle, cousin, distant relative.....family friend, doctor, neighbour.....fellow cadet at West Point...date rape at Amherst....etc......

I mean, on the one hand, we can't leave ANYTHING out as impossible. On the other hand, you're absolutely right. There's not necessarily any evidence of this, I don't even know how likely Moose thinks it is as a scenario, it's a horrific subject to try to discuss, it must be horrific for her family to have to contemplate the possibility of, and any discussion of even the remotest possibility of this sort of thing needs to be addressed VERY delicately.

(Now for my personal opinion on the matter, such as it may be: the idea that the theoretical perpetrator of this theoretical abuse (which I think looking4amoose is simply throwing out as a possibility, not pinning her flag under, to mix a metaphor).....anyway, to say that if it happened, it was Fred, is the most patently ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Nothing to substantiate that, as I've never met him, but the concept sounds absurd, from what I've seen of their relationship. Just wanted to get that out there as said.)

So. Yeah. That's waaaaay more than I even wanted to give that topic. But it can't really be ruled out as definite, either. However, I do agree with you that it's a topic that needs to be treated with the utmost respect.

Yeesh. That was awkward. I feel like I want to go wash my keyboard now, from having to type these things on it.

Hello all,

With not one single new publicly known fact appearing, no wonder that we tend to speculate...
For all we know Maura seems to have vanished into thin air...

So, I´m going to allow myself the luxury of speculating:

1. Brian´s Predictions clearly mentions West Thornton, NH, in the Pemigawasset River Valley of eastern Grafton County.

2. An earlier contributor here or on the ex-MMM board (I believe the latter)sensed the word "Hubbard" or "Hobart" or similar in connection with Maura.

3. The Forensic Astrology report on Maura states that she went to stay (with her "secret" boyfriend) in a house by a pond or lake, after she seemingly vanished from Swiftwater, Haverhill.

So:
West Thornton, "Hubbard"/"Hoba rt" and a lake or pond.

Studying a Google map of West Thornton it is easy to note the following:

On the western outskirts of West Thornton there is a lake called Mirror Lake next to Hubbard Brook Road. Judging from a satellite picture of the area, there seems to be a number of houses on the shores of Mirror Lake and nearby.

Make of this what you like....

hi all.Mauras' last race for umass was in april of 02.almost 2 years bfore she vanished .if anyone has a more recent race result please can you post.where she got her oil changed would show mileage etc and where it was done.did she get something in the mail or email from a ski resort on feb 09 2004 or prior i dont know but i think it is worth considering.i am still assuming that Mauras class schedule and the gallery she worked at and where she took her clinicals has not been made public for a reason i dont know.which brings me back to Amherst and Mauras prior life which is where she was when she maybe decided to leave.we should by now know a thousand things about Mauras prior life ,as in many other cases but i think we know about 6.why it is deemed private and off limits by some i really dont know.yes i know it is an ongoing investigation i get that. maybe we should make a list of all the things we should not ask about and then we can all agree.take care philip

sophie bean wrote:

challenging a shameful lack of response by LE to a missing person

And again, what did you think the response was going to be? Coast guard launching helicopters? Search teams being called out? National Guard on full alert? Maybe the other two officers in Haverhill coming in to scour the national forest? What the hell, I'm sure they had some free time. It is only the size of the state of Rhode Island. Exactly what did you think was going to happen? I know it might be hard for you to understand, I mean it's only been written several times. She was a walk away from a car accident. Something that is seen over and over especially when alcohol is involved. How many lives would you want to put at risk to search an area for someone that wasn't there, at night, in that terrain, in the dead of winter? This is not hyperbole. Searcher get hurt and sometimes killed often enough in circumstances such as this. So I'm just curious. A hasty search was done of the most likely avenues of escape. Standard procedure. Maura was not found to be in the area. What next? You wanted Fred called earlier and the police claimed that they did call. Maybe not leaving a message until later. If they had gotten in contact with Fred earlier and him stating "she wouldn't have run away" clearly which is wrong because she did run away from school. Let us assume that the police got that "pertinent" piece of information right when they found the car. What changes would you have made and to what ends? How would that have changed the outcome? How would that have made the outcome any different? I understand you might have felt better for whatever reason but bottom line, how would that have changed the outcome? Because isn't what you are really talking about? A changed outcome. The response was standard procedure. You are not going to change that. The reasons are simple. The first is the expense. It costs a small fortune to start a ground search let alone an aerial search, even a single helicopter. Without evidence she is in the area, it won't be done. That is what the hasty search tries to establish. The second is manpower. It requires a tremendous amount of manpower to do a ground search properly. The third is training. It requires a constant and continuous training to develop useful ground searchers. Not just people who stumble around in the woods getting themselves hurt and not seeing anything. The fourth is exhaustion. If you repeatedly call for searchers, who are mostly volunteers they will stop coming out simply because they are exhausted doing searches and their real "day jobs". The fifth is apathy. If you repeatedly call for searchers at times when there is no need eventually the searchers, who are mostly volunteers and whose lives you are disrupting will stop coming out because it is "probably just another false report". The sixth is time. It takes time to organize and get all the searchers from disparate areas together to launch a search. They aren't all sitting at one location just waiting for your call. I hope this helps to explain, again, what a proper response is. Please let us know the kind of response you think should have happened and MORE IMPORTANTLY please tell us how it would have changed the fact that Maura disappeared minutes after she left that area. I understand LE doesn’t know what they were doing so please educate everyone here with your solution that would have prevented Maura from running away from school, crashing her car 200 miles from her previously known location, the location that all her family members believed her to be including Billy, and then disappearing from the area before the police got there. Everyone, including myself needs to know the solution to this to implement a correct response next time.


Bill

Hi Bill. Fred has said that if Maura was there 1-2 minutes before the police came, maybe they could have found her walking, hiding, running, whatever. If only they would have acted immediately. They saw a spider hole crack in the windshield and already knew there was "a girl", it was cold, they saw the bottle w/the odor of alcohol supposedly at the time when the car was towed. But before that, CS rushed to the W-Mans, saying WHERE IS THE GIRL.......
When they decided to go look, they did not go East. SBD got out of his bus and into his 4x4 and off they went toward the West. Even Monahan was for some reason that direction looking for someone on foot. You, I'm sure, have read this many times. It's unfortunate, to say the least and we would hope that after all that commotion, the parents and civilians helping to look, etc......well, we would hope they would also be up at the crack of dawn with this as a priority.
There was another situation where a search was done right away and the person survived thanks to the fast and serious action. I don't recall the details.

Found this in the Hanson Express article..I think it's a good reminder to some and news to others:

Maura had recently returned from winter break. The University of Massachusetts has an unusually long break running from before Christmas into late January. Maura returned home to Hanson during her break and logically would have packed her belongings for such an extended time away. The UMass calendar refers to a "Welcome Back Week," occurring over the last week of January and into the first week in February. It is therefore plausible that Maura had been back on campus less than 10 days.

Family members also point out that Maura was a "neat-freak" by nature, so it wouldn't be unusual for the former West Point cadet to have her belongings carefully packed and arranged.

Just a couple of weeks before vanishing, Maura was with Billy and made arrangements to work at a near by hospital in OK, summer 04. This, to be closer to Billy.

I wonder how community response, attitudes and procedures would have differed in the Brook Wilberger case if it was reported she had been dancing on that lamp pole instead of cleaning it?????

Jan 31st, back to school....just guessing in accordance to the above. So day 2 of classes, and on Thursday night she worked her security job. Her sister called around 10. How could she get through though if you can't call out and have to be on campus to call in?
That wasn't my point, maybe Maura was not on duty yet. It's after midnight now and Maura is seen in tears after yet another phone call.
UMASS police said they had located the source of the call, just couldn't say who it was calling.
It's Friday, then Saturday Fred comes around to car shop, a car was picked out, done deal....she'd have it in a week or so.
Dinner, friends and a nice car to drive, she was going to where Fred was when something happened. She was given a ride to the Motel and told Fred what happened. She called Billy, not saying what more seemed to be bugging her. By Sunday calling around, everything seemed ok, the damage to Fred's car would be covered. Maura's driven back to campus. Fred calls her at 11:30 pm, Sunday night to remind her to pick up the forms.
Maybe something happened at Amherst while she was gone on Christmas break that she couldn't deal with. The upsetting call was not from any relative that we know of and police have yet to pin point or just tell who it was.
Does anyone think a secret boyfriend was calling....and if so why would she get hysterical? Wait, don't answer that. I'm just saying if she had been back for 10 days, after being with the Love of her life, there doesn't seem to be any room for another and she probably didn't leave for that reason.
I think she needed more rest and time to think and was considering what she wanted to do with her life. Always giving her all to what she did, maybe she wanted to change schools?

Lets think about this. Didn’t CS come in from the West on 112? I thought that Moynihan(sp) came in from the East on 112? CS would have seen her walking west and Moynihan would have seen her walking east. Wouldn’t a walking Maura if she wanted to be seen and stayed on the road have been seen? Do you think CS and Moynihan ignored seeing someone walking on the road? Didn’t Moynihan check RO walking on the road? They (CS and SBD) then did searches on the possible roads that they didn’t drive on initially. How faster then his approach to the accident scene could he have been searching for anyone walking? He was searching on the approach to the scene, not just after. Unless you figure he saw her and just didn’t write it in his report?

paris wrote:

There was another situation where a search was done right away and the person survived thanks to the fast and serious action. I don't recall the details.

I do remember the details. You are likely talking about that guy (name eludes me off the top of my head but should be easy to find) who was running for some elected office. First there was actual evidence that he was still in the area, unlike Maura. It was faked but there none the less. I remember people on the MMM forum making a big deal about how because he was a big wig that they pulled out all the stops and saved his life after his “car crash”. How if Maura was a big wig she also could have been saved. Of course not only is that BS but it didn’t happen at all like it was originally reported. He faked his rescue, he faked his wandering away. He was convicted in court on several charges related to his “rescue”. I believe his wife was also implicated. Like they say,“it was in all the papers” at the time.

Bill

Bill, I don't remember it that way, because it had a happy ending. Maybe we're not talking about the same thing, I'm very curious now. I do recall the one who faked, story.
But I thought everything centered around Swiftwater store, Bunga Road, correct me if I'm wrong.....that's West of the weathered barn. When SBD and CS went looking they went that way too, down French Pond Road and others,~that-a-way.

Forgot to say I don't think any of these officers would fail to record seeing her. Monahan did not have to contribute to any report however, because he saw nothing, therefore investigated nothing. He wasn't even on duty or in his jurisdiction though as I recall. I'm glad he helped to try and locate the missing Maura, every bit helps.

1Anne wrote:

Lady Gray, It has always been said that Maura was seen on camera purchasing the alcohol, do you know that this has been confirmed by any family? She purchased bottles of alcohol and only wine was found at the scene. Where did the rest of it wind up or did she take it back to her room for when she returned? Just wondering.

Family was not given opportunity to view the tape. The thought could be that the opened box of wine is from the party that was held on the night (morning) that Mr. Murray's truck was wrecked. This would explain why the box of wine was opened.

I believe that the bottles were purchased on her way out of town so there wasn't an opportunity to take the bottles back to her dorm; therefore, bottles disappeared from the vehicle. I will confirm time of the purchase. If it's different, I will post such. If not, then this post will remain as is.

Didn't a student confirm seeing Maura leave with a bag in her hands at 4 or 4:30......from campus? Wish I knew if they just saw her walking, and/or witnessed her driving away too.
She checked her messages *somewhere* at 4:37. Maybe while she was driving, but it could have been before she drove away. I wonder who called and left a message, or if she was listening to an old one.