Where is MAURA MURRAY

Shack wrote:

They would blend well into the environment and mind set of the Haverhill
area. To be delicate, they couldn't spell Mensa..."two to change a light bulb"....

How could anyone not see this as insulting?

It must be nice to be so superior.

This is the position another neighbor
has always seen the buses in and states
that they where that night.
Atwoods yard isn't large and was
full of cars there was a temp garage
on the property.

I personal believe with the snow banks
of that year it would have been impossible for him to park other wise.

Mr. M side windows make it impossible to
see the side of Atwoods house.
Where the Buses where so called parked!
After studying photos of these homes area being out there at night!
What the movement of the neighbor hood that is why I am remaining unmoved on this subject.
And it's fine for us to agree to disagree.

I'm sure Weeper's experience and time devoted are for all the reasons.

I find it odd 3 out of the 5 neighbors state one thing and 1 another.
The other thing that has bothered me about Mr. M's statements is 2 of the
the neightbors was told by him they where not home that night and even months afters seem surprised by his statements. That is just what I was told
does it make it FACT I have to paper
proof other than one's name on a shool
board meeting that clearly shows them
out and about and Westmans, Atwoods
police statements. I do via a good sources Mr. M has spoken with LE so
draw your own FACTS reports support
this although some have stated he never
did just my researched findings not facts here folks.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>Yankee I don't know if some one said the bus was never backed in. We would drive by SBD's house every other weekend and this is the position the buses were always parked in.

Maybe it's the friendship rose colored
glasses that make it impossible for you
to see!

Those of us who live here and deal on a daily bases with Shacks Family have different opinions supported by her "own kin" so
let's agree to disagree and stop!

We keep getting DERAILED BY THIS WOMAN
EVERY TIME SOMETHING COMES OUT THAT
SHE DOESN'T BELIEVE OR AGREE WITH!

MOVE FORWARD despite what she says there ARE MANY WHO WANT THIS SOLVED!

FireCat wrote:

Ok, that came out wonky the first time. Let me make that easier to read, with the right words were attributed to the right people. Sorry about the keystroke error that may have caused confusion.
<quoted text>
(Firecat wrote):
I fail to see where in that post she insulted "the people in Haverhill." In all seriousness, please point out to me where you see that so I can understand what's upsetting you.

whiston wrote:

hi all .repeating but worth while.when the cottage hospital witness passed the weathered barn at about 7.12 pm the saturn and a police vehicle were at the scene across from the Westmans with no sign of any body.this was 15 minutes was before the Westmans called about the accident.did pd show up twice.somoene suggested it was assumed that sgt Smith was at the Westmans but he would have been there before they had called about the accident.take care philip

Hello Whiston/Philip,

Thanks for pointing all this out again.
It certainly needs repeating many times, in my mind.

Perhaps this is really the weirdest of all in this upsetting case:

The witness from the Cottage Hospital is driving past the incident/accident site at the Weathered Barn curve at approx. 7.12 pm.

The SUV patrol car of Haverhill PD Sgt CS is seen by the witness at Maura´s Saturn with no
person(s) visible around the car.

This is some 23 minutes before the Westman´s call to the police at approx. 7.35 p.m, with Sgt CS officially arriving at the site at approx. 7.45 p.m., some 33 minutes before his patrol car is being seen at the same spot by the hospital witness driving past.

Now, this does seem to be extremely "fishy" to me.
I´m not necessarily implying any guilt per se as regards Sgt CS, but the circumstances are highly strange indeed.

Everything is wrong here on almost every count!

Either the hospital witness is for some unknown reason not telling the truth/inventing a story or was mistaken as for the timing when he/she noticed the HPD patrol car of Sgt CS by Maura´s Saturn -

OR alternatively there was something very strange indeed going on. I haven´t got a particularly conspiratorial mindset, but all this I find highly suspicious.

I wish we could concentrate all our efforts in looking at this particular angle for a while.

Cave Dude, thanks for responding to a bunch of my questions, most of them re the SBD. It's interesting it's been questioned lately how the bus was usually parked. I thought this had been answered for years.

As you pointed out, I too doubt that the SBD had any plan (starting in Amherst! sure!) to hurt anyone, or a collaboration with a friend or ex-student to commit a crime. IMHO he seemed to have the wrong history, age, job, physique, geographical situation (virtually in front of his house), and I'm guessing he was just plain too tired to even think of anything but getting home.

I was wondering (as a poster did several years ago) if a long-haired boy was still on the bus with the SBD... and the SBD asked him to try to get the Saturn away from that hazardous spot? Alternately, when the SBD pulled up to the Saturn and the youth stood up into the snowbank, he recognized him and didn't want to ID him to LE --- even though the SBD had reason to believe the youth had stolen the car...? Would he lie for a youngster/criminal he knew? Was related to?

Weeper said the SBD lied and didn't see a girl; I hope someone here can think of a reason he would lie about that. You said, well, if he was guilty and wanted to cover himself. Guilty of what? It seems almost ludicrous and physically impossible for the SBD to have committed an abduction in that short time. What would he be guilty of, then, if that's the main reason for someone to lie? It's hard to find reasons that make sense.... these probably don't... Driving the bus after having had some drinks (as a poster suggested years ago --- while he waited for the busload of kids to be ready for the ride home)? Guilty for having "clipped" her Saturn at some point (with one youth left in the bus??) causing grave injury? It's too hard to keep a secret like that.

By the time searchers may have looked for debris 1-3 miles away, it could've been covered up or gone...

Anyway, thanks for responding. It guess lies are just for the usual guilt, fear, embarrassment, and so to cover himself. From what?

Hello all,

Just a correction to my previous post:
The 6th paragraph from the start of my post should read as follow:

This is some 23 minutes before the Westman´s call to the police at approx. 7.35 p.m., with Sgt CS officially arriving at the site at approx.7.45 p.m., some 33 minutes AFTER his patrol car is first being seen at the same spot by the hospital witness driving past.

Sorry about this - typing too fast as always!

It's always the people in the town who see the town/gown conflict for what it is. Because it's the gown that, often blindly, disses the town. Some townies are too easily offended, but most are not. Much of what is written in certain forums amounts to a form of slumming. But those who slum are usually blind to their own slumming and take grave offence at its very suggestion, especially by those they offend. The gown slummers then go on to lord their superior intellect and judgment over the townies in telling them that they, the townies, are not smart enough to know when they are being insulted. That townies can't do subtext very well. Thus really compounding the conflict.

The real subtext of the gown slummers is that they are a superior race because they have more brains, more money, more opportunity, more mobility, more friends in high places, more everything, including a suger-coated condescension, the coating of which melts pretty fast as soon as their vanity and pride are pointed out to them.

The gown slummers always give themselves away by their haughty, screeching defense.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Citigirl--when you refer to the way the buses were parked "every other weekend" is this BEFORE or AFTER Maura disappeared? Because that might be significant.

Firecat this is after Maura disappeared. I'am a distant cousin of Maura's and began traveling up north in search of Maura in March of 04.

First off Fred probably wouldn't have been a PAI if he pop by and said hey I'm Fred Murray my daughter is missing
mind if I look around!
Second The Westman wake up one day to find their BARN AND FIELD filled with
cars and people for the Circle of Hope
probably would have been a NICE GESTURE
TO INVITE THEM wouldn't you SAY?
Further more let's talk about the free and discounted rooms at the Wells River
Motel for Mr. Murray to refer to others in the Swiftwater area as "I'm staying at Nim Wits" you know how to reach me!
So take your POOR POOR ME PIA and shove it!
Many Many Many step up to help and Give
and YOU NEVER GIVE THOSE CREDIT those who spent hours searching ect,food,services time!
You hear ONE RUNT and RUN WITH IT driving the POOR FOLKS OF THIS AREA into the GROUND!
Let's talk about the last big search while the FAMILY was trying to do interviews YOU INTERUP WITH I'M GOING TO THE LIQUOR STORE want anything!
What that PAINTS A VERY NICE IMAGE TO THE MEDIA doesn't it?
Guess what SHACK THE OLE VINGAR AIN'T WORKING SHOULD HAVE TRIED HONEY FROM DAY ONE! TAKE YOUR BOTTLE AND ENJOY!
You take bits and pieces and SPIN THEM INTO an AMAZING WEB so BS!
For all wearing ROSE COLOR GLASSES PASS ON FOR THOSE WHO TRULY WANT TO FIND HER
keep THINKING AND SHARING take what works LEAVE what doesn't!

The subtext of the word "subtext" is that those who use the word "subtext" are much smarter than those who do not use the word "subtext." Subtext readers are so smart that they can see things that townies cannot possibly comprehend. Subtext readers even have very specialized vocabularies, acquired in high falutin' colleges, to distinguish themselves, and those they defend, from those who need to have the subtext of an insult pointed out to them.

Pointing out the "subtext" is just another way of insulting people - and trying to deny it in the same breath. Go to the local bar and tell them about their subtext. I don't think THAT subtext will be lost on them.

White Wash am I reading your posting correctly? 2 of the neighbors were told by Mr M he was not at home on the night of Feb.9th?

Get thee to a Knitting Factory!

Others neighbors have been lead to believe he was not home due to lighting of the home and statements that I have
spoken to.

I was told by an off duty HPD that Mr.M
stated to him he heard her hit the trees
which was confusing to me since Weeper
posted other wise.

Conflicting pieces doesn't mean FACTS aren't there just not sure what ones.

citigirl wrote:

White Wash am I reading your posting correctly? 2 of the neighbors were told by Mr M he was not at home on the night of Feb.9th?

He also stated the Ribbon posters where on the wrong trees to this off duty officer.

citigirl wrote:

White Wash am I reading your posting correctly? 2 of the neighbors were told by Mr M he was not at home on the night of Feb.9th?

citigirl wrote:

White Wash am I reading your posting correctly? 2 of the neighbors were told by Mr M he was not at home on the night of Feb.9th?

Hello Citigirl & all,

I was just having a close look at an aerial/satellite photo of the area around the Weathered Barn curve.

I haven´t thought about this before, but it would seem that the W-man´s would hardly have been able to see much of Maura´s car from their house without going out into their garden or to the side of the 112.

According to Weeper´s information Maura´s car must have come to a stop somewhere much closer to the M-tte house about halfway between the W-man´s and the SBD house.

I also read the post by Whitewash as if Mr M-tte was not at home on the night of Maura´s incident/accident. Previously, I´ve always been led to believe that he was indeed at home.

If not so, who then was the purported witness in the M-tte house? Mrs M? Somebody else? Nobody?

If I can chime in here please.
My understanding was Sgt. Smith was
waiting for Kathleen to email HPD a photo of Maura.
The Family arrived and took photos out to Atwood he kept stating they didn't look like her but could have been because the HAIR WAS DOWN.
This where things getting iffy for me.
So for the longest time people could and should believed Maura was not driving that car.
Tests on the soda and air bags would certainly comfirm who was driving and
they would be requesting the public help
on finding a male ect from the results of the testing in my opinion.

Quija wrote:

Cave Dude, thanks for responding to a bunch of my questions, most of them re the SBD. It's interesting it's been questioned lately how the bus was usually parked. I thought this had been answered for years.
As you pointed out, I too doubt that the SBD had any plan (starting in Amherst! sure!) to hurt anyone, or a collaboration with a friend or ex-student to commit a crime. IMHO he seemed to have the wrong history, age, job, physique, geographical situation (virtually in front of his house), and I'm guessing he was just plain too tired to even think of anything but getting home.
I was wondering (as a poster did several years ago) if a long-haired boy was still on the bus with the SBD... and the SBD asked him to try to get the Saturn away from that hazardous spot? Alternately, when the SBD pulled up to the Saturn and the youth stood up into the snowbank, he recognized him and didn't want to ID him to LE --- even though the SBD had reason to believe the youth had stolen the car...? Would he lie for a youngster/criminal he knew? Was related to?
Weeper said the SBD lied and didn't see a girl; I hope someone here can think of a reason he would lie about that. You said, well, if he was guilty and wanted to cover himself. Guilty of what? It seems almost ludicrous and physically impossible for the SBD to have committed an abduction in that short time. What would he be guilty of, then, if that's the main reason for someone to lie? It's hard to find reasons that make sense.... these probably don't... Driving the bus after having had some drinks (as a poster suggested years ago --- while he waited for the busload of kids to be ready for the ride home)? Guilty for having "clipped" her Saturn at some point (with one youth left in the bus??) causing grave injury? It's too hard to keep a secret like that.
By the time searchers may have looked for debris 1-3 miles away, it could've been covered up or gone...
Anyway, thanks for responding. It guess lies are just for the usual guilt, fear, embarrassment, and so to cover himself. From what?

Since I have looked out the Westmans kitchen window and I know the placement
of the windows of the room they where
working on the computer in
I must disagree with you!
There where 3 trees and they where up
closer to Mr.M's not where the ribbon is
and Faith actually showed me how she
looked out the window.
I look out the window personally and
disagree with the fact of where the
actual accident was she would have
been able to see!
The Tree with the Ribbon on it she would not have been able to see from the kitchen window!
Hope this helps!
Move the site up I think 500 feet not
a fact or positive chick guess!

Eurobserver wrote:

<quoted text>
Hello Citigirl & all,
I was just having a close look at an aerial/satellite photo of the area around the Weathered Barn curve.
I haven´t thought about this before, but it would seem that the W-man´s would hardly have been able to see much of Maura´s car from their house without going out into their garden or to the side of the 112.
According to Weeper´s information Maura´s car must have come to a stop somewhere much closer to the M-tte house about halfway between the W-man´s and the SBD house.
I also read the post by Whitewash as if Mr M-tte was not at home on the night of Maura´s incident/accident. Previously, I´ve always been led to believe that he was indeed at home.
If not so, who then was the purported witness in the M-tte house? Mrs M? Somebody else? Nobody?

For me personally living here!
Experience working in the past at
Cottage Hospital family there now
ect.
The time clock is in the middle of the
hospital employee parking out back
so you punch out at 7 it's what 7:10 by
the time you get to your car!
We are talking FEB so here you don't turn the key and GO you wait a 5 mins or so depending on the car to warm up.
My personal experience driving to Goose lane going the speed limit is more than 5 mins much less to the Weather Barn by 7:15 doesn't add up!
If you time Sgt. Smith leaving there and back around No.Haverhill to pass his
Boss by Ranger Rick's it doesn't add up.

Eurobserver wrote:

<quoted text>
Hello Whiston/Philip,
Thanks for pointing all this out again.
It certainly needs repeating many times, in my mind.
Perhaps this is really the weirdest of all in this upsetting case:
The witness from the Cottage Hospital is driving past the incident/accident site at the Weathered Barn curve at approx. 7.12 pm.
The SUV patrol car of Haverhill PD Sgt CS is seen by the witness at Maura´s Saturn with no
person(s) visible around the car.
This is some 23 minutes before the Westman´s call to the police at approx. 7.35 p.m, with Sgt CS officially arriving at the site at approx. 7.45 p.m., some 33 minutes before his patrol car is being seen at the same spot by the hospital witness driving past.
Now, this does seem to be extremely "fishy" to me.
I´m not necessarily implying any guilt per se as regards Sgt CS, but the circumstances are highly strange indeed.
Everything is wrong here on almost every count!
Either the hospital witness is for some unknown reason not telling the truth/inventing a story or was mistaken as for the timing when he/she noticed the HPD patrol car of Sgt CS by Maura´s Saturn -
OR alternatively there was something very strange indeed going on. I haven´t got a particularly conspiratorial mindset, but all this I find highly suspicious.
I wish we could concentrate all our efforts in looking at this particular angle for a while.

I thought that the tree with the blue ribbon was not the place of accident was known. So, this would place the accident closer to Mr. M's home. Is this correct?

Off duty or not, HPD shouldn't be discussing anything about an active investigation with anyone outside of law enforcement!

I sincerely hope that I am not the only one who is disturbed by this.