Where is MAURA MURRAY

Shack wrote:

Those 32 pages of Grafton County Sheriffs Dept Log
are comprised of 11 Towns. Alexandria, Bath,
Bethlehem, Bridgewater, Franklin, Grafton, Groton,
Haverhill, Hebron, Lisbon, Littleton.
I tried to find a comparable call for the 7PM
scanner call. If it is there, I couldn't find it.
Page 3 Bath, starts at 9:02PM (nothing significant)
From what I can find, there were 3 incidents for
the EMS between 7:42PM - 10:51PM
(#1,/112,#2,/Lime Kiln, Haverhill and #3,/Bunga Rd, Bath)
I don't know the specifics as to how Log was requested.....but, there are more Towns included than what was needed for Maura's case.
Question, that I am sure will not get answered here...does FD/EMS keep their own records..(perhaps the Murray family has that info....)
I couldn't find any words (that doesn't mean that they are NOT there)regarding "turn back..turn around...left in private vehicle" or even
mention of Northland.
Can't figure out why it was "printed" in Nov.2004" ..it didn't state "revision date"...and it looks like changes were made.

What the missing part of the logs could contain - and this is speculation of what could be important information (using Bill's helpful information about what is released under the Freedom of Information Act - only records related to her case should have been released)[Also the fact that the other towns are mentioned there is more information that can be useful for the case... apparently whoever released the log believes that those calls are related or possibly(?) related to the case.]

In what I think could be important I draw the same comclusion as Bill - that the entries for the time period are missing because whoever provided it - judged that these entries were not related to Maura's disappearance - if removed - but I can tell by comments some have.

Now - my point of view is as such - that I think there are grounds for those missing records to be released and therefore an arguement for their release be made.

I think its quite possible that there is relevent information in there - but they haven't realized that it is relevant -(put another way - I believe there could be a genuine dispute as to the relevancy of that information not in the log, specifically any calls related to complaints about fast driving, hits and runs, flee the scenes - prior to Woodsville - if any record of that nature has been expunged. I don't know who decides what is what.)

Of the set of possible scenarios I have thought of - it is very possible that (and if so, very relevant and core in my mind to a solution or break in the case, any call could have included activity along the route taken by the Saturn - it is a possible route and the travel on that route a part of a comprehensive theory)[My evidence is Elsewhere's helpful information about other calls along the 10 I think it was]- that the Saturn possibly was taken up a non Interstate to its final resting place at a speed to fast for the conditions the road allowed - in order for the car to arrive there when it did.

I should put it in a better way: If they didn't think the other entries were relevant, but they actually were - they would not include those log entires, even though they are relevant.

I think that an independent party familiar with the case should have a say on judging what is and is not relevant in that log - and that may have to be argued for - because the interpretation of the law and legal advice given creates an "autopilot" set of policies for law enforcement folks to follow, of course until resolved in court.

"Looking4, An elderly lady, with Lifeline, had fallen and EMS unit 60A2 was dispatched at 10:07PM...to Bunga...."

Now this is likely completely unrelated - so I wonder now if the Freedom of Information rules should have caused that entry to be blacked out. Bill - what do you think is going on? I trust that the documents at least appear to the folks that have said so - to have missing parts - yet - the log contains the above - which I can only see as being relevant indirectly - to show that the EMS that was assisting the lady above - was not at the Saturn site at the time - not much relevance in other words - why is that there - do you think?

Apparently the police believe the route the car took includes all of the points on this map:

http://maps.google.com/maps...

They don't agree with me at all that Interstate 91 is a very likely and possible route.

Given the time involved - I would not fail to get logs from along Interstate 91 and NH 10. This tells me one of two things: that they believe they have evidence that the car traveled up U.S. 3 - or that they simply failed to get those reocords and or provide those records in the FOIA pack.

From what I can tell I-91 is not being considered - but for what reason - I know it not.

From this I think they believe there were other reports of the car being driven up and being involved in incidences that merited police calls.

If you look at the map - you can get an idea of the geographical theory here.

Also I just thought of the possibility that several cities logs could have been photocopied together fom separate documents generated by different computers.

OK - I'll back off, I am interested in other opinions and critiques.

OK - last things -

http://maps.google.com/maps...

This is a direct route of the areas checked.

And correction: "This tells me one of two things: that they believe they have evidence that the car traveled up U.S. 3"

Read: "This tells me one of two things: that they believe they have evidence that the car traveled up New Hampshire State Road 25 / 25C."

And if the car didn't go up 25 / 25C and 3A but instead 63, U.S. 5, NH 120, and other smaller roads including N.H. 10 - there is no evidence that they even checked these logs. If they came up inconclusive - this could be the very reason why.

I would ask foor those logs under FOIA - plus other towns along I-91 - which of course is an INDEPENDENT approach to that piece of the puzzle.

shack...the elderly lady on Bunga that the call was for was a relative of Robinonordway.

RO said she called EMS routinely, but not verified.

The Hanson Express never used a photo from the JO.

Shack wrote:

Elsewhere, wish that my copies of Log were better...I know that I have offered copies ...but copies of my "bad copies...? I dunno..;-/

Thanks again for the offer to send copies of your dispatch log Shack.

I recall reading early on that the intitial copies of the dispatch log were tough to read. Also recall discussions of different blocks of time on some pages appearing to be cut and pasted as well as typesets differing.

Back in my twenties (twenty years ago) I was taught that you always keep the original documents on file as masters for copying.

When you make a copy of a copy than another copy of a copy the quality of the page gets worse and worse and you end up with what was initially issued to the public. Re: the copies of the dispatch log released to the Hanson Express.

I did pull up those first few pages that were scanned by the Hanson Express and the quality of what was supposed to be orginal documents was terrible.

I know Quija has made the generous offer as well.

Guess you could say I've seen and heard enough.

Lady Gray, Silky, Anne, Citigirl, yourself, Quija, Helena, Mcsmom, have all reviewed the documents as well as the NH League of Private Investigators.

I have a tremendous amount of faith in you guys and gals and you've all proven to be quite sharp and articulate.

Always doubted I'd be of much help.

Got a 100 bucks that says I can produce the orginal picture!
Shack so do you remember the Hanson Express being at The Lodge?
Shack you know what Weeper looks like!
What a nice picture ran of him in the JO
with the Dog Team and his side kick taken
on Ole Peter's Road just before he stop at
Maricotts asking for permission to search their
land!
Better yet have your pal Lady Gray get in touch
with Helena since she was the one who supplied it
off MMM by mistake to the Hanson Express!
But you know it all don't you!

YOU ARE AGAIN WRONG WRONG WRONG!

mcsmom wrote:

shack...the elderly lady on Bunga that the call was for was a relative of Robinonordway.
RO said she called EMS routinely, but not verified.
The Hanson Express never used a photo from the JO.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
Mmmmmmmmm..........there are different versions out there.

Just want to clarify.....when I say different versions of the log, I mean there is one log with certain information (Version 1). Then there is another log (Version 2), same date, with some of the information missing and some information on there that was NOT on Version 1.

There are also different bates numbers on the logs. When documents are produced in discovery, they are bates numbered......which is just numbering them in sequence with (usually) an identifier prefix or subfix.

It makes it easier to refer back to the documents. And the documents should never differ. Redacted yes. But the printed words on pages should never vary. Nothing missing nothing added.

So, I have found this to be interesting. And, by the way, this is not new "news." Citigirl brought this up earlier on this board.

To furter clarify copy 1 was sent to Helena by Dispatch prior to the law suit!
Interesting since what the claim they had received no information?

Second copy sent by the AG's office/Court.
What missing is for a reason on both copies!
I think it being blow out of context to SUPPORT
THE COVER UP THEORY that really doesn't have a FACT TO STAND ON!

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
Just want to clarify.....when I say different versions of the log, I mean there is one log with certain information (Version 1). Then there is another log (Version 2), same date, with some of the information missing and some information on there that was NOT on Version 1.
There are also different bates numbers on the logs. When documents are produced in discovery, they are bates numbered......which is just numbering them in sequence with (usually) an identifier prefix or subfix.
It makes it easier to refer back to the documents. And the documents should never differ. Redacted yes. But the printed words on pages should never vary. Nothing missing nothing added.
So, I have found this to be interesting. And, by the way, this is not new "news." Citigirl brought this up earlier on this board.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>when I say different versions of the log, I mean there is one log with certain information (Version 1). Then there is another log (Version 2), same date, with some of the information missing and some information on there that was NOT on Version 1.

I guess this only has meaning if you know whose hands the two sets of documents went through on its way to you. Do you know the history of the documents from origin to arrival? Did they both start off as the same set and where changed (updated) with other information as it went through different agencies or touched other peoples hands that had nothing to do with the original creation? These are things I would like to know before jumping to conspiracy theory. Not saying that is what you are doing.

Couldn’t the Bates numbering be different if several court cases where being done, civil and criminal separately but at the same time and not related to each other? Such as possibly a criminal case and then the civil case that Fred brought? Yes, these are questions, I don’t know much about how the Bates numbering works. I understand for the same case it would make no sense for them to be different and would defeat the purpose of putting them on.

Bill

Hey white wash, granting something to the public domain is a complete abandonment of all rights.

Get your facts straight.

Blah Blah instead up of putting up pretty much the normal here!

Got that 100 still got that picture that
proves YOU WRONG AGAIN!

Blah Blah Blah is alls famous way of
derailing the CHAT!

Blah Blah Blah

I got heels can't pull out the shit kickers
to get down and dirty for the case!

BLAH picture is worth a 100 BUCKS!

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

mcsmom wrote:

Hey white wash, granting something to the public domain is a complete abandonment of all rights.
Get your facts straight.

How many courts has it been through?
Of course not Bill just wouldn't support
the cover up we going.
LE broke into Maura's room sent that email that
she had a death in the family!
Crashed her car then left.
Drove back to the post to respond to the call
Bill.
Can't you see how talent Sgt. Smith is and he
has the FBI UMASS MA LE all helping to cover up!
A logical reason nah!

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
I guess this only has meaning if you know whose hands the two sets of documents went through on its way to you. Do you know the history of the documents from origin to arrival? Did they both start off as the same set and where changed (updated) with other information as it went through different agencies or touched other peoples hands that had nothing to do with the original creation? These are things I would like to know before jumping to conspiracy theory. Not saying that is what you are doing.
Couldn’t the Bates numbering be different if several court cases where being done, civil and criminal separately but at the same time and not related to each other? Such as possibly a criminal case and then the civil case that Fred brought? Yes, these are questions, I don’t know much about how the Bates numbering works. I understand for the same case it would make no sense for them to be different and would defeat the purpose of putting them on.
Bill

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
I guess this only has meaning if you know whose hands the two sets of documents went through on its way to you. Do you know the history of the documents from origin to arrival? Did they both start off as the same set and where changed (updated) with other information as it went through different agencies or touched other peoples hands that had nothing to do with the original creation? These are things I would like to know before jumping to conspiracy theory. Not saying that is what you are doing.
Couldn’t the Bates numbering be different if several court cases where being done, civil and criminal separately but at the same time and not related to each other? Such as possibly a criminal case and then the civil case that Fred brought? Yes, these are questions, I don’t know much about how the Bates numbering works. I understand for the same case it would make no sense for them to be different and would defeat the purpose of putting them on.
Bill

It isn't a matter of updating info. Regardless of whose hands the documents are passed through, when the dispatch log is presented as a "legal document," the versions should be exact (aside from the bates numbering...I'd have to look more into the 2 different cases to see if this is the case. Good point.)

This is something that is examined in lawsuits. Content of text, that is. Trust me, I did it for a number of years as I was a litigation assistant. Sat at my desk and matched one up against the other. You proof to see (1) any info dropped,(2) any info changed,(3) any info appear that wasn't there before? The prefixes and subfixes would indicate through whose hand the discovery came through - who presented it.

They are different versions. Version 1 should match Version 2. Doesn't matter at what time, over the years, it was provided nor by whom.

You're in rescue business? So, you see reports I'm sure. And, yes, I could see reports being run in a different manner to present certain specific information as needed for... let's say, stats, etc.

This is not the discrepancy between the reports. Conspiracy? That's not for me to say. And that I find curious.

How's your vacation plans coming?
I would LOVE LOVE to show the
FACTS in person to you come FEB.

We can start at the site!
You can stay in the cabin
since big ole Shack's KIN rents it out!
I'm sure since it's KIN you can get
a great deal!
Weeper can stop by take some more
carpet samples and bring a PI kit and you can test for DNA and all that fun stuff!
Then you can walk the woods for a few days!
2 Miles around the site each way is the norm.
Then you can go to Twin Mt and view the car.
Then you can go to the Courts and HPD.
Then you can roam around seeing how mean the town folks are!
Then will take you by all the locals papers to drop off your FACT FILLED STORY to keep MAURA in the PRESS!
Nice Vacation for someone who has the mouth now let's get you the FACTS to back up that big mouth of yours!
Southest had good prices.
See you in FEB.

mcsmom wrote:

Hey white wash, granting something to the public domain is a complete abandonment of all rights.
Get your facts straight.

Callousness and insolence bring to bare unanimous social condemnation, while the simple efforts of politeness are admired; even in those who are otherwise despised.

Why would they be the same?
One is from Dispatch one goes to HPD who hires
dispatch.
HPD uses the logs as a base!
But all court documentations come from the Police
Reports!
Which there is the accident report and a criminal
report filed with the court!
Do you really honestly believe the ANSWER is in a log?
What is it you honestly believe is in there that
would change the out come here?
What in the logs doesn't matter it's what in the police report it's what's in the major crime units
report it's what's in the Medical Labs reports.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
It isn't a matter of updating info. Regardless of whose hands the documents are passed through, when the dispatch log is presented as a "legal document," the versions should be exact (aside from the bates numbering...I'd have to look more into the 2 different cases to see if this is the case. Good point.)
This is something that is examined in lawsuits. Content of text, that is. Trust me, I did it for a number of years as I was a litigation assistant. Sat at my desk and matched one up against the other. You proof to see (1) any info dropped,(2) any info changed,(3) any info appear that wasn't there before? The prefixes and subfixes would indicate through whose hand the discovery came through - who presented it.
They are different versions. Version 1 should match Version 2. Doesn't matter at what time, over the years, it was provided nor by whom.
You're in rescue business? So, you see reports I'm sure. And, yes, I could see reports being run in a different manner to present certain specific information as needed for... let's say, stats, etc.
This is not the discrepancy between the reports. Conspiracy? That's not for me to say. And that I find curious.