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Where is MAURA MURRAY

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Mason

Paducah, KY

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#8342
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Deciding whether to mtDNA test the apparent blood stained carpet sample and compare the profile to a profile developed from a biological sample obtained from her mother, which usually is collected with a buchle swab of the interior lining of the cheek, must be left to the family to decide, assuming they can afford the cost of the tests.

We would have to respect whatever decision they make and they are entitled not to disclose the results, if they authorize the testing.

That said, I suspect the testing was done and the result excluded Maura, but the family is not revealing the result at the request of the police.

I think it would be difficult to conceal a match, given the enormous significance and impact that finding would have on the family. Therefore, a classic example of no news is good news.
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#8343
Dec 1, 2008
 

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peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:
<quoted text>
mason I believe the airbags were taken into evidence, whether or not any DNA or mtDNA was conducted is not known, however I agree that the car was not sealed as evidence right away or later is inexcuseable and sloppy police work. If DNA testing was done on the airbags, there would be little question is Maura was driving her car at the time of impact, or if there was a passenger in the front seat....
too swabs could have been taken from the windsheild to see if the glass had been broken by an instrument or if someone struck their head etc..
Good thinking. People often forget that saliva contains nucleated cells with nuclear DNA. Although there are fewer nucleated cells per given volume of saliva compared to blood, there's more than enough nuclear DNA to develop a profile from a drop of saliva or from the saliva that impacts a surface after a cough or sneeze. Cigarette butts are a common source of dried saliva containing typeable quantities of nuclear DNA. Swabbing the interior of a vehicle, including the steering wheel, door handles, window cranks, instrument panel surface, interior of the front windshield, gear shift, lips of bottles and cups, the surface of the console, and the surface of a recently inflated airbag might reasonably be expected to yield a DNA profile of a single or multiple contributors.

If a male was involved in the abduction, as appears to be the case, and that male got into the Saturn or touched anything in it transferring his saliva to whatever he touched, it may be possible to develop his DNA profile from a swab used to swab the item he touched. Wouldn't it be sweet to suddenly find out that a DNA profile was obtained in that manner and the lab got a hit when his profile was compared to the national convicted felon database.

My little fantasy brings to mind the rag that someone stuffed in the exhaust pipe of Maura's Saturn. I can't recall what happened to it, but it just might be worth testing since the male appears to be the most likely candidate to have crammed it into the pipe and he may have been breathing hard causing lots of airborne saliva to collect on it as he labored.
WHITE WASH

Worcester, MA

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#8344
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Peripeteia,
HPD had Dispatch contact Fred's phone
listed in the system that night.
They tried NUMBEROUS TIMES over the next few days.
Just because Fred was out of town
working doesn't mean he was not contacted.
Being notified and when Fred decided to
check his messages is very different.
Reports stated Freddy Jr. called Fred
then Kathleen and the last statement
in the Hanson Express was "I received one call at 3:30".
The dispatch log shows Fred Murray returning this call at 6:00.

It's been through the court systems so the WHOLE COURT system in NH is wrong?

Seriously do you have any clue the time and effort and REAL POWER it takes to cover something up like this?
peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:
Besides the need for a grand jury there needs to be an internal investigation of the local police in the matter of the accident at the weather barn and the disappreance of Maura.
The first officer on the scene, did not secure the vehicle for evidentiary purposes, he failed to question the Westman's regarding seeing a male at the scene of the accident. He failed to notify Fred Murray the owner of the car in a timely fashion that his vehicle had been involved in a car accident. He failed to issue a BOL for Maura even though the evidence pointed to the fact that she may have been injured and endangered. He failed to issue the police report in a timely fashion, and it is sorely wanting in information. He failed to notate what the witnesses said on the report and some of the witnesses were not interview until days later. He failed to state that he and the School Bus Driver went to look for Maura, they failed to head Eastward, even though the car was headed in an easterly direction as per reported by the Westman's. State Trooper Monahan was at the scene, he failed to notate that in the police report, and the S.T. has failed to issue his report. He failed to show the SBD a photo line up.
He stated to Maura's family almost 36 hours later that he did not know Maura was missing.
Procedures were not followed. Why? The police then reported that Maura likely came to the White Mountains to commit suicide. Absurd! Why has not an internal review of the police department taken place. Why have the police not apologized to the Murray's, why have they not kept the family informed.
In Canada we have a Public Enquiry, the public can request an enquiry into the actions of the police, there is no such animal in the U.S., why? The police are public employees.
If anyone feels that there is not such a need, well think again, what if it Maura was your daughter, your sister, you loved one, would you be satisfied with the justice system?
Maura deserves better. Brianna Maitland's mother owned her car, the police in Vermont also failed to notify her that her car had been involved in an accident, the Governor there made no attempt to hide this fact and policies and proceedures were changed. Why the difference in New Hampshire, what is it that the police are hiding?
I am not bashing the police but simply pointing out that anything but a stellar job was done investigating the accident and Maura's disappearance. Why? What policies and procedures have changed? Law enforcement needs to stand up and be accountable, that is not to say that they should tell the public everything they know but they need to be more transparent why polices and procedures were not followed?
whiston

Meriden, CT

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#8345
Dec 1, 2008
 
hi Mason and all .the DNA stuff is fascinating,thak you. Lets suppose something was found at Lavoies after the saturn was towed there ,either something that indicated a crime or someone sneaking in to the saturn for some reason.If DNA was taken would you say the saturn would be useless as evidence and leaving it outdoors would be normal.i am not really clear how long a DNA sample wold be good and how the weather would affect it.take care philip
whiston

Meriden, CT

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#8346
Dec 1, 2008
 
hi all if a possible sighting of Maura was checked out in june 05 did people believe she was still alive.When was the last posssible sighting checked out,anybody know .When HPD tried to contact mr Murray i am assuming they thought they had another drunk driver leaving a car on there roads and coming back later to retrieve it with some crazy story.I assume that they thought he was the driver.How and when did mr Murray ever convince HPD that he was not in the saturn and what did they do to comfirm his story about Maura.i am wondering when umasss was first contacted.As for when mr Murray first was contacted by HPD ,that depends what you read and who supplied the information.
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#8347
Dec 1, 2008
 
whiston wrote:
hi Mason and all .the DNA stuff is fascinating,thak you. Lets suppose something was found at Lavoies after the saturn was towed there ,either something that indicated a crime or someone sneaking in to the saturn for some reason.If DNA was taken would you say the saturn would be useless as evidence and leaving it outdoors would be normal.i am not really clear how long a DNA sample wold be good and how the weather would affect it.take care philip
No, I'm not saying that any DNA evidence would be useless or degrade to the point of vanishing. My point addresses the so called chain-of-custody or integrity-of-the-evidence issue. If the Saturn had been towed to a secure police impound facility and a thorough inventory of its contents was prepared, there would be little doubt as to the contents of the vehicle and their location when it was impounded. No one would be able to later claim successfully that some item listed in the inventory wasn't in the car before it was impounded and therefore the item was planted after the incident.

From time to time we get sidetracked by questions like how much booze was in the car and whether the cardboard Franzia box was compromised or intact, etc. An inventory would answer those questions definitively.

As long as the vehicle is secure, no one has to worry about evidence being planted and the police have adequate time to decide whether they want to swab portions of the interior and submit the swabs to the crime lab for testing, or whatever. When they are finally finished with their investigation of the vehicle and its contents, they can release it without having to worry about a future defendant claiming that some exculpatory evidence (e.g., a signed confession by someone else) was out of sight and under the seat all along. But, if it ain't on the list, it wasn't there.
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#8348
Dec 1, 2008
 

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peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:
<quoted text>
mason I believe the airbags were taken into evidence, whether or not any DNA or mtDNA was conducted is not known, however I agree that the car was not sealed as evidence right away or later is inexcuseable and sloppy police work. If DNA testing was done on the airbags, there would be little question is Maura was driving her car at the time of impact, or if there was a passenger in the front seat....
too swabs could have been taken from the windsheild to see if the glass had been broken by an instrument or if someone struck their head etc..
Unless the impact from striking her head on the windshield was sufficient to break the skin, there wouldn't be any bloody residue at the point of impact. Even if the impact caused a bleeding wound, under normal circumstances blood would not transfer to the interior surface of the window unless the bleeding wound came in contact with that surface a second or subsequent time.

Absent a bleeding wound, the most likely biological fluid to produce the DNA profile of the contributor is dried saliva which, unfortunately, is clear and cannot be visually detected without using a chemical reagent.

Collecting trace evidence at a crime scene is not unlike archaeological digs where care, patience, and perseverance are very important.
FireCat

United States

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#8349
Dec 1, 2008
 

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peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:
someone asked me about the scrubs, I wasn't so sure that they got returned, just that the last call Maura received was from her classmate who had loaned her the scrubs..
They were not scrubs, according to the family. They were street clothes, after Maura unexpectedly stayed the night because of bad weather. Someone mentioned this a few pages ago, and I reposted. Just gonna keep gently reminding everyone until it registers.:)
FireCat

United States

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#8350
Dec 1, 2008
 
whiston wrote:
As for when mr Murray first was contacted by HPD ,that depends what you read and who supplied the information.
Yup! Presumably dispatch records their outgoing calls as well as incoming. Have THOSE records been released?
White Wash

Lebanon, NH

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#8351
Dec 1, 2008
 
Sure have check yourself!
FireCat wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup! Presumably dispatch records their outgoing calls as well as incoming. Have THOSE records been released?
mcsmom

Marlborough, CT

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#8352
Dec 1, 2008
 

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white wash....with numerous discrepancies between dispatch logs which one are we to believe????????

Also, why would dispatch mention that Bruce McKay was off at a motel that evening?
Mastermind

Boulder, CO

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#8353
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Just a Thought,

Like JMO, you obviously have some personal agenda here to distract certain views. Furthermore, like JMO, you put so many thoughts and words into my mouth and head that it is absurd. I won't even go into the details because I do have a life and I must get on with it. Furthermore, the fact that you insult and accuse me of things that you have no idea about just goes to show how laughable your stupidity is. To claim you know anything at all about my personal life, and then to try to humiliate me based on what YOU think YOU know. By YOUR STANDARDS, YOU are just as bad as I AM at making ASSUMPTIONS into someones personal life. Actually worse, and here is why: I know for a fact that you don't have any idea about my personal life because you've falsified yourself all over the place. At least my assumptions into Maura's life have some possibility of being true. You make judgments on my social life, on my intelligence, just because you don't like my theory and POV on Maura's case, or the way I present it. What a hypocrite; a hypocrite of the worst kind because it's blantent hypocrisy. It's really fine if I am not correct, but get a grip. I would guess that I get out a lot more than you. I probably wouldn't have posted here to begin with, unless I had recently come down with the flu and become bedridden. But for you it's probably a primary form of social interaction. I apologize again for not being the most informed person around here, but some people were kind enough to fill me in on some of the obvious things I missed while others, such as yourself, just continue to insult me. This is a public forum, so you have to expect this type of thing to happen now and again, that is, a newbie coming on the scene and giving his/her thoughts on the matter. The way you judge me is reprehensible. Many of you want to criticize me for using language such as "I think" or "I feel." Well, I'm truly sorry if this has upset you. However, that is what "I think" and how "I feel", and this is a public forum and I can post it if I want to. Some people seem to appreciate it, or at least remain objective towards it. You attack me by saying that I am psychologically messed-up, well, based on the postings here, you have a lot more problems in that regard than I do. Since were both posting anonymously, I really don't care how laughable you think I am, or how you feel that I am embarrassing myself. It's a public forum. I can come on here and sing a song if I want to. If you are going to come on here and judge people for their behavior, you should be careful not to engage in that same behavior yourself, you dispicable piece of garbage.
Mastermind

Boulder, CO

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#8354
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Everyone,

I would seriously warn anyone who is thinking of taking anything from JMO or Just A Thought seriously. They are obviously here to dissuade certain POVs and converstaions from happening, probably because of some personal agenda. This is obvious because of the extreme anger with which they lash out at other posters who they don't like. It's ok, really, I kind of expected a few rotten apples to be here, but these two will just insult other posters, claiming we are psychologically messed up, stupid, all in an attempt to dissuade people from views they don't like. They claim to use intelligence in their posts, but they use anger and insults. They claim that other people are stupid, when their posts are the most illogical and emotionally filled garbage on this forum. I never really expected anyone to take me seriously here. I just feel a lot of compassion for this young girl, who I feel, got herself (yes, I said it again) into a big mess. I don't really expect my theories to be true, but it is certainly possible, and I feel, the most likely scenario of the possibilities I've heard so far. Please, I urge those of you who really want to try to figure out what happened here to not believe those who are personally tied, or give the impression of being personally tied, to Maura. If I EVER did that, I am TRULY apologetic. I think I threw one poster off when I said "love always" at the end of my msg, which was just a way for me to demonstrate that I show compassion towards all of you who are invested in figuring out what happened here and for those who have suffered because of this tragedy. I am really just a gentle person who wanted to share my thoughts, and if I appear harsh towards Maura it is because I do so objectively. Don't believe the garbage that these two are throwing out b/c it's all an attempt to dissuade you. They only want you to believe certain things about Maura and her disappearance and not other things, and their comments lack any type of objectivity. Best Wishes in an objective pursuit of the truth, which any of you are entitled to pursue despite what criticisms may come your way.
White Wash

Lebanon, NH

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#8355
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Does it really matter in the big picture which one?
They really are the same one released to the family or leaked it to the public.
Or the one the Court released and the Hanson Express released and we know it's complete how?
So pick which ever you wish.
Both show Fred Murray being called at 3:30 and not returning the call until 6:00.
I'm sure dispatch mention Bruce McKay because it's a great big cover up that's why.
My own personal guess is Office McKay was working.

Good Day!
mcsmom wrote:
white wash....with numerous discrepancies between dispatch logs which one are we to believe????????
Also, why would dispatch mention that Bruce McKay was off at a motel that evening?
Wowzer

Franconia, NH

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#8356
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Welcome to the "I've been bit in the butt by the attack ducks club" Mastermind.
As a local that was able to furnish leg work and also facts it was apparent that this is not what this particular forum wanted.
If you did not come from the old MMM forum then heaven help you if you disagree or have different views than the old time posters.
Except for this reply I've just lurked for some time now watching in awe as the newbies get chewed up and spit out. Such a shame that it is only good scenerios that are read without insults and name calling as I think lots of what you have said has merit although I disagree with a couple of things.
Even if you no longer post at least continue to lurk and you will be amazed at what you see.
I thought "Just a thoughts" posts were mean and cruel and I think they are the one with issues.
get real

Summerville, SC

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#8357
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Just a Thought wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you have the audacity to presume you know what Maura was going through? I just can't get over how arrogantly presumptuous and pathetically stupid you are. You have absolutely NO evidence that she was enduring or experiencing ANY level of "emotional pain". And what "motives" are you referring to? How can someone so blatantly stupid sincerely presume to know someone they've never met and someone they know nothing about based on the presumption that she may have been partying in college? There are well over 3 million college students in this country. Statistics indicate that well over 1.5 million of them party regularly, get drunk at parties, binge drink, etc. It's blatantly obvious that you have absolutely NO social life and never had one and no experience in partying with friends, and therefore it's impossible for your brain to comprehend that normal college students drink alcohol. You are excessively out-of-touch with society, and this is exceeded only by your obliviousness to it. Just over this Thanksgiving weekend, I got drunk on Wednesday night (TG eve) with dozens of my friends at one of our friends clubs in NYC. On Friday night, I drank again at another club that my friends and I frequent. That's twice in three nights. This also happens to be the only two times I've drank heavily in the past few months. Am I an alcoholic? According to your utterly incompetent thought process, Yes, I am. Am I drinking to cover up some deep emotional pain? According to your limited mental capacity, Yes, I am. I couldn't just be having drinks while socializing with friends, right? No, of course not. Who does that?!? They must be emotionally disturbed to have to do something crazy like having a few drinks at a party.
How embarrassing. How dare you presume that Maura had emotional pain because she went to a dorm party and drank alcohol. That's disrespectful to her and her family. Do us a favor, stop embarrassing yourself and leave. Thanks.
Maybe you should stop embarrassing yourself with posts like this.

Who are you to call anyone else stupid?

Who are you anyway?

Someone with no class, that's obvious.
whiston

Meriden, CT

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#8358
Dec 1, 2008
 
hi Mason and all .do you know what would be considered normal amount of time for DNA to be collected from a vehicle.Are we talking minutes or hours.I am wondering if the car was searched for samples and then considered not important .I am not sure how that all works, they really can't put a car in a fridge in a zip lock bag i understand that but at what point do you think it would be considered searched for DNA.take care philip

Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Comments: 360

Bristol, CT

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#8359
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Start Part 1 of 2
peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:
<quoted text>
mason I believe the airbags were taken into evidence, whether or not any DNA or mtDNA was conducted is not known, however I agree that the car was not sealed as evidence right away or later is inexcuseable and sloppy police work. If DNA testing was done on the airbags, there would be little question is Maura was driving her car at the time of impact, or if there was a passenger in the front seat....
too swabs could have been taken from the windsheild to see if the glass had been broken by an instrument or if someone struck their head etc..
Here we are back to the same ridiculous criticisms by individuals who watch too many CSI reruns. Cases solved in 60 minutes including commercials.
I am sure in NS every likely inebriated walkaway accident is considered a full blown murder/missing person/national security/terrorism crime scene and I am sure if this happened in NS Maura would be safe with her parents right now. Here in the US we treat things differently. We donít assume that whenever a likely inebriated adult runs from a car accident that they are never going to be seen again since we see these over and over again. We know from experience that happens almost never. We treat people running from cars like this not only in NH but we treat these scenes like that in virtually any jurisdiction in any state in this country.
I understand you havenít read most of what has been posted but I posted this in response to another poster who had a similar thought. Please read and answer if you can.

End Part 1 of 2

Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Comments: 360

Bristol, CT

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#8360
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Start Part 2 of 2
WTF wrote:
<quoted text>
And again, what did you think the response was going to be? Coast guard launching helicopters? Search teams being called out? National Guard on full alert? Maybe the other two officers in Haverhill coming in to scour the national forest? What the hell, I'm sure they had some free time. It is only the size of the state of Rhode Island. Exactly what did you think was going to happen? I know it might be hard for you to understand, I mean it's only been written several times. She was a walk away from a car accident. Something that is seen over and over especially when alcohol is involved. How many lives would you want to put at risk to search an area for someone that wasn't there, at night, in that terrain, in the dead of winter? This is not hyperbole. Searcher get hurt and sometimes killed all the time in circumstances such as this. So I'm just curious. A hasty search was done of the most likely avenues of escape. Standard procedure. Maura was not found to be in the area. What next? You wanted Fred called earlier and the police claimed that they did call. Maybe not leaving a message until later. If they had gotten in contact with Fred earlier and him stating "she wouldn't have run away" clearly which is wrong because she did run away from school. Let us assume that the police got that "pertinent" piece of information right when they found the car. What changes would you have made and to what ends? How would that have changed the outcome? How would that have made the outcome any different? I understand you might have felt better for whatever reason but bottom line, how would that have changed the outcome? Because isn't what you are really talking about? A changed outcome. The response done was standard procedure. You are not going to change that, though you are free to try. The reasons are simple. The first is the expense. It costs a small fortune to start a ground search let alone an aerial search, even a single helicopter. Without evidence she is in the area, it won't be done. That is what the hasty search tries to establish. The second is manpower. It requires a tremendous amount of manpower to do a ground search properly. The third is training. It requires a constant and continuous training to develop useful ground searchers. Not just people who stumble around in the woods getting themselves hurt and not seeing anything. The fourth is exhaustion. If you repeatedly call for searchers, who are mostly volunteers, they will stop coming out simply because they are exhausted doing searches and their real "day jobs". The fifth is apathy. If you repeatedly call for searchers at times when there is no need eventually the searchers, who are mostly volunteers and whose lives you are disrupting will stop coming out because it is "probably just another false report". The sixth is time. It takes time to organize and get all the searchers from disparate areas together to launch a search. They aren't all sitting at one location just waiting for your call. I hope this helps to explain, again, what a proper response is. Please let us know the kind of response you think should have happened and MORE IMPORTANTLY please tell us how it would have changed the fact that Maura disappeared minutes after she left that area. I understand LE doesnít know what they were doing so please educate everyone here with your solution that would have prevented Maura from running away from school, crashing her car 200 miles from her previously known location, the location that all her family members believed her to be including Billy, and then leaving the crash area before the police got there. Everyone, including myself needs to know the solution to this to implement a correct response next time.
Bill

End part 2 of 2

Joined: Oct 16, 2008

Comments: 269

Oakland, CA

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#8361
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Just a Thought wrote:
<quoted text>
You are doing such a disrespectful disservice to Maura, her family, and those of us who are sincerely trying to assist in finding out the truth. Why do you still insist to post in this forum
WHO THE HELL ARE _YOU_ TO SAY THIS???
???
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