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Where is MAURA MURRAY

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Joined: Oct 16, 2008

Comments: 269

Oakland, CA

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#8362
Dec 1, 2008
 

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And NO this person has been reasonable for the most part - and I can see once again the end result is crazy barking dogs at newcomers.
Turanna

Parsippany, NJ

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#8363
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Hi all. It just recently that I've been following the case but I've read up on as much as I could get my hands on. I was looking over the police report and the pictures. Does anyone else see the inconsistencies in the police report and the pictures? If Maura did in fact hit a tree wouldn't her bumper be dented just like the front hood of her car is? It really looks like a truck or something may have slammed on their brakes and caused her to hit the back bumper of the truck. Does anyone else see what I mean in the pictures?

Also, in the police report, why did it take the officer almost a week to finish his report? I have a lot of friends that are police officers and all of them have to have their reports done ASAP, meaning by the end of their shift. Also, the times on the police report seem strange. The time the police were notified and the time the police arrive don't seem to be accurate. The ambulance arrival time looks to be accurate because it doesn't end in a 5 or 0. The other 2 times both end with 5's. Meaning.. either the officer didn't accurately let dispatcher know when he got there OR the dispatcher "forgot" to document the exact times and just estimated. Either way its a discrepancy that should be looked into if it hasn't already.
Another thing I noticed and I'm not totally sure about is.. wasn't their snow on the group? Had it snowed at all that night? I remember reading on one of the news articles that there was a lot of snow on the ground but I'm not sure if that was during a search or during the actual incident. If it was during the incident then thats another discrepancy with the officers report.

Also, if her scent was lost when the search dogs were used, does anyone know if the bus drivers house was searched and if they searched the bus for any evidence as well?

One last thing about the police report... how does the officer know that Maura had been drinking? If he never saw her he couldn't accurately mark that on his report, which it is. I know there had been alcohol in the car and supposedly a red liquid spilled all over the front part of the car BUT couldn't that have happened it a bottle or something had broken when the car had gotten into an accident? He didn't do a BAL on Maura so how can he accurately say that in his report? I don't mean to nit-pick but I feel like this accident report could be a red flag and I'm just hoping these discrepancies were looked into or will be looked into.

I apologize if some of my questions have been answered previously. I'm just curious about the case and would like to help figure out what happened to Maura.

Joined: Oct 16, 2008

Comments: 269

Oakland, CA

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#8364
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Mastermind wrote:

"I don't really expect my theories to be true, but it is certainly possible,"

And that exploration should be encouraged to a point that, in my judgement, you have not crossed (although I see the viewpoint of others)

To me its about not being flagrent. You weren't.

Here are some examples of flagrent theories that are better left unsaid - just so the innocent here know what they really should be upset about instead of your theory - pregnancy.

Maura was:
* a drug dealer
* a prostitute
* a catburgler
* a sex ring madame
* addicted to crack
* a mob mule
* going to a nudest camp
* exchanging letters with Charles Manson or the Unibomber
* a serial killer destined to be caught and fleeing
* molested by her father and fleeing

I am sure many of the browbeated here can and have thought of more "out of bounds" theories but they have exercised their judgement.

The truth is that all of these things, plus "in bounds" theories can be described as "an unknown pressure" - that should be good enough.

Why is "unknown pressure" good enough? Well - we don't know what it was and cannot possibly determine it until someone investigating does, if at all.

However, I still think it 50% likely
that she was harmed at Amherst.
White Wash

Lebanon, NH

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#8365
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Mason sorry the car was impounded it was in a locked secured area that night!
At 11 PM a search warrant was obtain by HPD.
At appox. 9 AM a search was granted.
At appox 11 AM (I believe) HPD performed a
search.
Evidence has been logged.
There is an inventory list.
So not sure how people can say the chain of evidence wasn't kept?
Thatís an excellent example of inexcusable and reprehensible incompetence.
White Wash

Lebanon, NH

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#8366
Dec 1, 2008
 

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First off what you are reading is an accident report. On the bottom it refers to a Police Report.
Just a guess but they had no Maura so thinking
the report wasn't finished cause it was missing
the driver just a guess?

The dispatch notes are a guide line for the accident report but LE may have notes that
more detailed so they would go with those.

Information could have gotten transcripted wrong
and corrected for a court version.

What the public is viewing are not the actual
reports filed in the courts.
Turanna wrote:
Hi all. It just recently that I've been following the case but I've read up on as much as I could get my hands on. I was looking over the police report and the pictures. Does anyone else see the inconsistencies in the police report and the pictures? If Maura did in fact hit a tree wouldn't her bumper be dented just like the front hood of her car is? It really looks like a truck or something may have slammed on their brakes and caused her to hit the back bumper of the truck. Does anyone else see what I mean in the pictures?
Also, in the police report, why did it take the officer almost a week to finish his report? I have a lot of friends that are police officers and all of them have to have their reports done ASAP, meaning by the end of their shift. Also, the times on the police report seem strange. The time the police were notified and the time the police arrive don't seem to be accurate. The ambulance arrival time looks to be accurate because it doesn't end in a 5 or 0. The other 2 times both end with 5's. Meaning.. either the officer didn't accurately let dispatcher know when he got there OR the dispatcher "forgot" to document the exact times and just estimated. Either way its a discrepancy that should be looked into if it hasn't already.
Another thing I noticed and I'm not totally sure about is.. wasn't their snow on the group? Had it snowed at all that night? I remember reading on one of the news articles that there was a lot of snow on the ground but I'm not sure if that was during a search or during the actual incident. If it was during the incident then thats another discrepancy with the officers report.
Also, if her scent was lost when the search dogs were used, does anyone know if the bus drivers house was searched and if they searched the bus for any evidence as well?
One last thing about the police report... how does the officer know that Maura had been drinking? If he never saw her he couldn't accurately mark that on his report, which it is. I know there had been alcohol in the car and supposedly a red liquid spilled all over the front part of the car BUT couldn't that have happened it a bottle or something had broken when the car had gotten into an accident? He didn't do a BAL on Maura so how can he accurately say that in his report? I don't mean to nit-pick but I feel like this accident report could be a red flag and I'm just hoping these discrepancies were looked into or will be looked into.
I apologize if some of my questions have been answered previously. I'm just curious about the case and would like to help figure out what happened to Maura.
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#8367
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Dear Mastermind,
(Part 1)
I offer these thoughts -- not as criticism -- but with a sincere and caring desire to help you heal your inner wound.
When you said in #8353, "Since we're [referring to yourself and Just a Thought] both posting anonymously, I really don't care how laughable you think I am, or how you feel that I am embarrassing myself. It's a public forum. I can come on here and sing a song if I want to. If you are going to come on here and judge people for their behavior, you should be careful not to engage in that same behavior yourself, you dispicable piece of garbage."
I first heard about Maura Murray's case last week and it has captured my heart and imagination. Her case is so bizarre and complicated that I occasionally think that she never existed and her story was written, directed, and produced by David Lynch. I keep hearing that weird haunting Twin Peaks musical score written for Lynch by Angelo Badalamenti and ask myself when will the giant and the dwarf appear in their cameo roles muttering something important yet unintelligible? My point is that we do not know the real Maura Murray and likely never will.
The Maura Murray each of us visualizes and the thoughts and feelings that she evokes in us is a projection of our own values, opinions, hopes, and fears. To many parents, she is the daughter they wished they had. Young men see her as the woman they wished they had as their life companion. Young women see her as the person they wished they were or could become. To most of us she seems perfect: Intelligent, beautiful, sexy, warm, sensitive, affectionate, caring, charming, mysterious, fun, considerate, and competitive. The tragic circumstances of her disappearance and its effect on her family and those who knew her wound us deep in the core of our being. As time passes without a resolution to this matter, Maura Murray will become more and more perfect until our perception of her merges with the Venus archetype that resides in the collective human subconscious. In effect, Maura Murray is a mirror that reflects back to us the aspects of our deepest selves and we would do well to listen and consider the deeply personal message that she has gifted to each of us. Whether we realize this or not, our thoughts and feelings about her reflect who and what we are. Know thyself is the path to knowledge, wisdom, and transformation through self-reflection. There is no greater gift to give and receive than the mirror of self-reflection, which Maura Murray has given to each of us, and I thank her for the mirror that she has given to me.
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#8368
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Dear Mastermind,
(Part 2)

Maura has touched you deeply. It is her personal, although painful gift to you. Some gift! you may wonder. Step back and try this more detached perspective. Ask yourself why your visceral reaction as expressed through your feelings, thoughts, and words is so filled with pain and defensive. Take some time to ponder why you have reacted to her case the way you have and why you have been so compulsively driven to unleash such a stinging rebuke as evidenced by these words -- your words -- responding to a comment by Just a Thought, a person you do not know.
"I really don't care how laughable you think I am, or how you feel that I am embarrassing myself. It's a public forum. I can come on here and sing a song if I want to. If you are going to come on here and judge people for their behavior, you should be careful not to engage in that same behavior yourself, you dispicable piece of garbage."
Seems like you really do care about JAT's opinion of you, or you would not have troubled yourself to compose such an insulting response. You criticize JAT for judging you, yet you judge him or her to be a despicable piece of garbage. Do you not find interesting your defensiveness to disagreement, your rage in response to criticism, and your judgmental and intentional effort to dehumanize and wound rather over the top? Whether intentional or not, haven't you deflected the group's attention away from Maura Murray and onto yourself and your deep wounds that only you can heal?
My friend, you have a few too many bright and shiny buttons affixed to your sleeve that invite casual observers to ask, "I wonder what will happen if I push that one?"
Anyway, I've enjoyed reading your comments and I hope you continue posting. I hope you give some thought to my remarks and realize that I intend them to help you and the rest of us understand some of the deeper currents and meaning of our participation in solving this tragic case.
May Maura Murray live long and prosper and may we find ourselves as we seek to find her.

With respect from a fellow seeker,

Mason
White Wash

Lebanon, NH

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#8369
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Just for the record a full staff for HPD is 7
when Maura went missing I believe there was a staff of 4.
So for a normal PD finishing reports would be
possible for those who are under staffed keep
the public safe would be top then reports.
Turanna wrote:
Hi all. It just recently that I've been following the case but I've read up on as much as I could get my hands on. I was looking over the police report and the pictures. Does anyone else see the inconsistencies in the police report and the pictures? If Maura did in fact hit a tree wouldn't her bumper be dented just like the front hood of her car is? It really looks like a truck or something may have slammed on their brakes and caused her to hit the back bumper of the truck. Does anyone else see what I mean in the pictures?
Also, in the police report, why did it take the officer almost a week to finish his report? I have a lot of friends that are police officers and all of them have to have their reports done ASAP, meaning by the end of their shift. Also, the times on the police report seem strange. The time the police were notified and the time the police arrive don't seem to be accurate. The ambulance arrival time looks to be accurate because it doesn't end in a 5 or 0. The other 2 times both end with 5's. Meaning.. either the officer didn't accurately let dispatcher know when he got there OR the dispatcher "forgot" to document the exact times and just estimated. Either way its a discrepancy that should be looked into if it hasn't already.
Another thing I noticed and I'm not totally sure about is.. wasn't their snow on the group? Had it snowed at all that night? I remember reading on one of the news articles that there was a lot of snow on the ground but I'm not sure if that was during a search or during the actual incident. If it was during the incident then thats another discrepancy with the officers report.
Also, if her scent was lost when the search dogs were used, does anyone know if the bus drivers house was searched and if they searched the bus for any evidence as well?
One last thing about the police report... how does the officer know that Maura had been drinking? If he never saw her he couldn't accurately mark that on his report, which it is. I know there had been alcohol in the car and supposedly a red liquid spilled all over the front part of the car BUT couldn't that have happened it a bottle or something had broken when the car had gotten into an accident? He didn't do a BAL on Maura so how can he accurately say that in his report? I don't mean to nit-pick but I feel like this accident report could be a red flag and I'm just hoping these discrepancies were looked into or will be looked into.
I apologize if some of my questions have been answered previously. I'm just curious about the case and would like to help figure out what happened to Maura.

Joined: Oct 16, 2008

Comments: 269

Oakland, CA

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#8370
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Turanna - I hope to be responsive and kind at the same time - however - everyone's viewpoint differs slightly - so I want you to know my intent.:)

These posts have limited space - you have a lot of questions - and being new I want you to feel that you aren't ignored. Unfortunately - a lot of us are still struggling with those answers and we've been here for a while.

Turanna wrote:

"Does anyone else see the inconsistencies in the police report and the pictures?"

Many people agree with you.

"If Maura did in fact hit a tree wouldn't her bumper be dented just like the front hood of her car is?"

This I agree with - but here is an anomoly...

"It really looks like a truck or something may have slammed on their brakes and caused her to hit the back bumper of the truck."

There is a good number of folks that agree with you that the car did not hit a tree.

So - you are on the same page with us in uncertainty (if I've understood you)

"Does anyone else see what I mean in the pictures?"

I have read several shades of expressions of doubt about the car.

Now - I don't like saying this - but some of the questions you ask have been discussed in detail here - its just hard to find - and now the thread is 400 pages long.
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#8371
Dec 1, 2008
 
White Wash wrote:
Mason sorry the car was impounded it was in a locked secured area that night!
At 11 PM a search warrant was obtain by HPD.
At appox. 9 AM a search was granted.
At appox 11 AM (I believe) HPD performed a
search.
Evidence has been logged.
There is an inventory list.
So not sure how people can say the chain of evidence wasn't kept?
That is an excellent example of inexcusable and reprehensible incompetence.
Well, it just goes to show that I'm not as smart or thorough as I thought and, as someone long ago warned me, I should have withheld my critical remark lest I appear the fool. Well, can you lend me a napkin? I've got egg all over my face.

Please accept my apology. I confess that my remark was "an excellent example of inexcusable and reprehensible incompetence."

OUCH!

Thanks, I needed and deserved that.
peripeteia Nova Scotia

Halifax, Canada

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#8372
Dec 1, 2008
 

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WHITE WASH wrote:
Peripeteia,
HPD had Dispatch contact Fred's phone
listed in the system that night.
They tried NUMBEROUS TIMES over the next few days.
Just because Fred was out of town
working doesn't mean he was not contacted.
Being notified and when Fred decided to
check his messages is very different.
Reports stated Freddy Jr. called Fred
then Kathleen and the last statement
in the Hanson Express was "I received one call at 3:30".
The dispatch log shows Fred Murray returning this call at 6:00.
It's been through the court systems so the WHOLE COURT system in NH is wrong?
Seriously do you have any clue the time and effort and REAL POWER it takes to cover something up like this?
<quoted text>
W.W. Please advise you source of information where it shows that Fred's home was contacted prior to 3:30 on Tuesday. There were no messages on Fred's phone prior to this, by the time that Fred's youngest son contacted Kathleen and she in turn contacted Fred was after 5:30. Please advise how you know otherwise.

Yes, I do know how much time and power and effort is involved in such an undertaking. I'm sure that if you stood inside Fred's shoes for a second, or if it was your daughter who was missing you would not agree that the police did a stellar job in this investigation, however if you have information to state otherwise then we can debate this further...
Sharon, Fred, and Helena have given the information that no messages were left and no phone calls were received prior to what is stated above..

As previously stated there are grounds for an internal review of law enforcements actions in the investigation of the accident and Maura's subsequent disappearance...

I await your references...thank you
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#8373
Dec 1, 2008
 

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A remark about the dark side may be appropriate here. Everyone has one and no doubt so does Maura. Whether her dark side has any relevance to her disappearance is unknown and we don't have any evidence upon which to form, much less express, an opinion regarding her thoughts and fantasies.

It's virtually impossible to shut me up when I get rolling, but I'm going to make an exception here.

The less said the better.

Joined: Oct 16, 2008

Comments: 269

Oakland, CA

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#8374
Dec 1, 2008
 
"OUCH!

Thanks, I needed and deserved that. "

To err is to be both human and admired. I don't know if I agree that rebukes should be handed out lightly - especially if it involves figuring out what happened.

I encourage both you and Mastermind.:)
peripeteia Nova Scotia

Halifax, Canada

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#8375
Dec 1, 2008
 

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WTF-the-original wrote:
Start Part 1 of 2
<quoted text>
Here we are back to the same ridiculous criticisms by individuals who watch too many CSI reruns. Cases solved in 60 minutes including commercials.
I am sure in NS every likely inebriated walkaway accident is considered a full blown murder/missing person/national security/terrorism crime scene and I am sure if this happened in NS Maura would be safe with her parents right now. Here in the US we treat things differently. We donít assume that whenever a likely inebriated adult runs from a car accident that they are never going to be seen again since we see these over and over again. We know from experience that happens almost never. We treat people running from cars like this not only in NH but we treat these scenes like that in virtually any jurisdiction in any state in this country.
I understand you havenít read most of what has been posted but I posted this in response to another poster who had a similar thought. Please read and answer if you can.
End Part 1 of 2
Are you saying Bill that DNA evidence cannot be gleaned from an airbagI bed? I disagree. You cannot be stuck with an airbag in the face and not get saliva on the airbag, as the pressure is enormous.....so the police might not have suspected that she was abducted, murdered or the worse, however they should have suspected she was injured, and if they suspected nothing, then why cut out the airbags...

I believe that any abandoned vehicle especially those that have damage and where alcohol is present I believe law enforcement is obliged to contact the owner of the vechile immediately. Also, given that law enforcement knew that a young woman was driving from out of town and east of the accident scene was not heavily populated and perhaps the person might have been injured then they were remiss not to contact the owner immediately....

I know that the RCMP would have issued a BOL immediately and not to the fire department.

As stated in Canada we have the right to call for a public enquiry when we are not satisfied with the preformance of the police...

I have now read 300 pages of this blog, and read most of what was written on both previous MMM forums....so that leaves me as informed or better than most...
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#8376
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Benjamin Franklyne wrote:
"OUCH!
Thanks, I needed and deserved that. "
To err is to be both human and admired. I don't know if I agree that rebukes should be handed out lightly - especially if it involves figuring out what happened.
I encourage both you and Mastermind.:)
Thanks, Benjamin. I believe you and I are the only west coasters posting on this site. I lived many years in Seattle before moving to Paducah, KY where I now reside and I cannot say that I feel welcome, comfortable, or happy to be here. Most folks, upon discovering from whence I came, stare at the top of my head to see if they can detect the horns they know must be hidden in my hair, and I've been told by confidential and reliable sources of information that people stare at my backside when I walk away apparently marveling at my ability to disguise my forked tail.
Well, let's see what we can contribute to get to the bottom of this mystery.
peripeteia Nova Scotia

Halifax, Canada

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#8377
Dec 1, 2008
 

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I posted this a.m. information that may have affected Maura, and might explain her emotional state re: Rumsfeld's enquest into the sexual assaults re: female military assaults many of whom were from West Point....

...is everyone aware that Maura was at West Point for three semesters...

...this ANNOUNCEMENT was made Thursday
the night Maura was reduced to tears...

...no comments, or is everyone too busy bashing everyone else?!
Mastermind

Boulder, CO

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#8378
Dec 1, 2008
 

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Mason,

You are almost entirely correct. However, I do not believe that my words were nearly as reprehensible, harmful, or numerous as Just A Thought's. Yet, I am aware that an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind, and I will do my best to withhold negative comments in the future. My sincerest apologies to anyone that I've upset.
peripeteia Nova Scotia

Halifax, Canada

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#8379
Dec 1, 2008
 
hi firecat, where did you find out about these were not scrubs, as I distinctly recall Helena advising that they were indeed scrubs, not that it really matters, I just wonder when the change occured from scrubs to clothes? Thanks
White Wash

Lebanon, NH

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#8380
Dec 1, 2008
 

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There are no perfect people and that include LE
regardless how some feel!
I am wrong all the time but I step up say so!
It's called LIFE!

Play On!

Thanks!
Mason wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, it just goes to show that I'm not as smart or thorough as I thought and, as someone long ago warned me, I should have withheld my critical remark lest I appear the fool. Well, can you lend me a napkin? I've got egg all over my face.
Please accept my apology. I confess that my remark was "an excellent example of inexcusable and reprehensible incompetence."
OUCH!
Thanks, I needed and deserved that.

Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Comments: 360

Bristol, CT

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#8381
Dec 1, 2008
 

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peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying Bill that DNA evidence cannot be gleaned from an airbagI bed? I disagree. You cannot be stuck with an airbag in the face and not get saliva on the airbag, as the pressure is enormous.....so the police might not have suspected that she was abducted, murdered or the worse, however they should have suspected she was injured, and if they suspected nothing, then why cut out the airbags...
I believe that any abandoned vehicle especially those that have damage and where alcohol is present I believe law enforcement is obliged to contact the owner of the vechile immediately. Also, given that law enforcement knew that a young woman was driving from out of town and east of the accident scene was not heavily populated and perhaps the person might have been injured then they were remiss not to contact the owner immediately....
I know that the RCMP would have issued a BOL immediately and not to the fire department.
As stated in Canada we have the right to call for a public enquiry when we are not satisfied with the preformance of the police...
I have now read 300 pages of this blog, and read most of what was written on both previous MMM forums....so that leaves me as informed or better than most...
This is not what I asked you.

We do not know if the items were tested or not. We donít know if there are dna results from those tests or not and you wonít find any of that out until there is a trial. We also do not routinely secure as evidence vehicles from people who flee the scene of an accident. And of course, if CS did that, and there was a note on the front seat telling everyone of Mauraís intent to commit suicide and they waited hours for a search warrant then these same people insisting that the car should have been secured would instead be screaming that the police should have smashed a window out and scoured the car for suicide notes immediately. You clearly will not win with some of these people because people who stare at an event like this from a thousand miles away and several years removed will always have the correct answer and they will not hesitate to tell you how much they know.

Then we proceed with the usual mental masturbation from peripeteia about the Canadian system and their right for public enquiry which of course has nothing to do with anything related to Mauraís case. And law enforcement may try to contact the owner of the vehicle which they did several times in this case according to the police. I will leave it up to you to work out the timeline why Fred may not have gotten the call.

But on the list of important things and understaffed, overworked, police department might need to do, a broken vehicle isnít very important so no they didnít send an emissary to find Fred and tell him about his busted car or discover his adult daughter was a runaway.

If you find time please try to respond to my previous question.

Bill
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