Where is MAURA MURRAY

WTF-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
This is not what I asked you.
We do not know if the items were tested or not. We don’t know if there are dna results from those tests or not and you won’t find any of that out until there is a trial. We also do not routinely secure as evidence vehicles from people who flee the scene of an accident. And of course, if CS did that, and there was a note on the front seat telling everyone of Maura’s intent to commit suicide and they waited hours for a search warrant then these same people insisting that the car should have been secured would instead be screaming that the police should have smashed a window out and scoured the car for suicide notes immediately. You clearly will not win with some of these people because people who stare at an event like this from a thousand miles away and several years removed will always have the correct answer and they will not hesitate to tell you how much they know.
Then we proceed with the usual mental masturbation from peripeteia about the Canadian system and their right for public enquiry which of course has nothing to do with anything related to Maura’s case. And law enforcement may try to contact the owner of the vehicle which they did several times in this case according to the police. I will leave it up to you to work out the timeline why Fred may not have gotten the call.
But on the list of important things and understaffed, overworked, police department might need to do, a broken vehicle isn’t very important so no they didn’t send an emissary to find Fred and tell him about his busted car or discover his adult daughter was a runaway.
If you find time please try to respond to my previous question.
Bill

Bill if you could so kindly reiterate the question, which was unclear to me...

The reason I state about a public enquiry in our system, is so that others can see there is another way, and we got this system because we demand it because we pay for it! The point is for the citizens to demand it. Ironically, Wentworth
a bastillion of civil rights in New Hampshire moved to Nova Scotia and lobby and won the civil liberities that we enjoy here that are denied elsewhere...

I await your question Bill, thanks, and no need for being scarcastic. It is stated that scarcasim it is the lowest form of wit...

and if you are the same BILL as on Maura Murray's forum, I expect better than scarcasm...if you don't like the fact that I point out the obvious or what I say, I'm sorry for that... you can always ignore...take care...

White Wash wrote:

Sure have check yourself!
<quoted text>

Thanks for that information, White Wash.

White Wash wrote:

Does it really matter in the big picture which one?
They really are the same one released to the family or leaked it to the public.
Or the one the Court released and the Hanson Express released and we know it's complete how?
So pick which ever you wish.
Both show Fred Murray being called at 3:30 and not returning the call until 6:00.
I'm sure dispatch mention Bruce McKay because it's a great big cover up that's why.
My own personal guess is Office McKay was working.
Good Day!
<quoted text>

I believe she is referring to the part about LE alleging they tried multiple times to contact him. That's certainly the part I question, which is why I chose to answer, since I know you're going to ask why I'm "butting in" when I wasn't specifically addressed.

Wowzer wrote:

Welcome to the "I've been bit in the butt by the attack ducks club" Mastermind.
As a local that was able to furnish leg work and also facts it was apparent that this is not what this particular forum wanted.
If you did not come from the old MMM forum then heaven help you if you disagree or have different views than the old time posters.
Except for this reply I've just lurked for some time now watching in awe as the newbies get chewed up and spit out. Such a shame that it is only good scenerios that are read without insults and name calling as I think lots of what you have said has merit although I disagree with a couple of things.
Even if you no longer post at least continue to lurk and you will be amazed at what you see.
I thought "Just a thoughts" posts were mean and cruel and I think they are the one with issues.

What's interesting about your observation, Wowzer, is that the entire conversation you reference has taken place, to the best of my knowledge, between two newcomers.

So much for the single bullet theory.

Turanna wrote:

Hi all. It just recently that I've been following the case but I've read up on as much as I could get my hands on. I was looking over the police report and the pictures. Does anyone else see the inconsistencies in the police report and the pictures? If Maura did in fact hit a tree wouldn't her bumper be dented just like the front hood of her car is? It really looks like a truck or something may have slammed on their brakes and caused her to hit the back bumper of the truck. Does anyone else see what I mean in the pictures?
Also, in the police report, why did it take the officer almost a week to finish his report? I have a lot of friends that are police officers and all of them have to have their reports done ASAP, meaning by the end of their shift. Also, the times on the police report seem strange. The time the police were notified and the time the police arrive don't seem to be accurate. The ambulance arrival time looks to be accurate because it doesn't end in a 5 or 0. The other 2 times both end with 5's. Meaning.. either the officer didn't accurately let dispatcher know when he got there OR the dispatcher "forgot" to document the exact times and just estimated. Either way its a discrepancy that should be looked into if it hasn't already.
Another thing I noticed and I'm not totally sure about is.. wasn't their snow on the group? Had it snowed at all that night? I remember reading on one of the news articles that there was a lot of snow on the ground but I'm not sure if that was during a search or during the actual incident. If it was during the incident then thats another discrepancy with the officers report.
Also, if her scent was lost when the search dogs were used, does anyone know if the bus drivers house was searched and if they searched the bus for any evidence as well?
One last thing about the police report... how does the officer know that Maura had been drinking? If he never saw her he couldn't accurately mark that on his report, which it is. I know there had been alcohol in the car and supposedly a red liquid spilled all over the front part of the car BUT couldn't that have happened it a bottle or something had broken when the car had gotten into an accident? He didn't do a BAL on Maura so how can he accurately say that in his report? I don't mean to nit-pick but I feel like this accident report could be a red flag and I'm just hoping these discrepancies were looked into or will be looked into.
I apologize if some of my questions have been answered previously. I'm just curious about the case and would like to help figure out what happened to Maura.

These are ALL questions that need to be brought up AGAIN AND AGAIN until they're sufficiently answered. They are in fact things that lots of us have also noticed.

YES the accident report is entirely vague and unclear.

That's not nitpicking, that's attention to detail, and it's EXACTLY what Maura's case needs. Keep picking nits!! Please!!:)

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

<quoted text>
W.W. Please advise you source of information where it shows that Fred's home was contacted prior to 3:30 on Tuesday. There were no messages on Fred's phone prior to this, by the time that Fred's youngest son contacted Kathleen and she in turn contacted Fred was after 5:30. Please advise how you know otherwise.
Yes, I do know how much time and power and effort is involved in such an undertaking. I'm sure that if you stood inside Fred's shoes for a second, or if it was your daughter who was missing you would not agree that the police did a stellar job in this investigation, however if you have information to state otherwise then we can debate this further...
Sharon, Fred, and Helena have given the information that no messages were left and no phone calls were received prior to what is stated above..
As previously stated there are grounds for an internal review of law enforcements actions in the investigation of the accident and Maura's subsequent disappearance...
I await your references...thank you

HEAR, HEAR! Thank you, Peri.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

hi firecat, where did you find out about these were not scrubs, as I distinctly recall Helena advising that they were indeed scrubs, not that it really matters, I just wonder when the change occured from scrubs to clothes? Thanks

It happened in the very later pages of MMM, and someone recently referenced it here (I believe it was mcsmom, but I could be mistaken.) I quoted it a few pages back as well.

So I guess the best that can be said about the info for now is that it's moved back into the "debated/unclear" category, like so much else in this case.

HEY PHILIP! I know you've got parts of MMM archived, what are the chances that you (or your wife) can find that particular reference? Just wonderin'. It's not a big deal if you can't. Lots of more important things going on.

PERI AGAIN, I noted your West Point reference, and I know it's not the first time you've brought it up. It's a possibility. I don't know what else to say. But it didn't go entirely unheard....

hi new people here and thankyou. The saturn found in N.H that mr.Murray owned did not hit the trees nor sustain any damage where it was found.This story has been repeated over and over in the press and was long ago disproved.Whether Maura Murray ever got to N.H. in the saturn is unknown.The last place she may have been is Amherst M.A.WHY she left Amherst and where she intended to go is still a mystery.Her family refuses to allow the public to know where she worked, what her class schedule was and where she had her clinicals.Why is a mystery to me.Her family has reportedly never seen the last video at an ATM where she withdrew 280 dollars,the day she vanished.They have painted a picture of the perfect American girl with the great future.Whether she wanted what they wanted has not been discussed.She had alot of problems in her life from her early years.For some reason her family has not let it be known and her friends, or should i say people she came into contact with, have mostly chosen or been asked not to talk about Maura.Maura has never been,thank God an unsolved murder case.I cannot understand why the people she knew in her past have not come forward and talked about her prior life.I really hope she is alive and well and living a good life someplace.There are too many things that dont make sense both on the side of law enforcement and the Murray family.Cousins of Maura please dont give me the disrespect of the Murray family speech ,it is played out.As for Mauras friends from her past ,i hope you find the courage to speak up.Where did Monahan or Monaghan go in all of this.He was there ,what does he have to say .It seems nothing, yet.What about Rick Forcier .As far as i know his land has never been searched .Is his house still on the market.. take care philip

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
They were not scrubs, according to the family. They were street clothes, after Maura unexpectedly stayed the night because of bad weather. Someone mentioned this a few pages ago, and I reposted. Just gonna keep gently reminding everyone until it registers.:)

OK--so the first week of clinicals there was bad weather. I was of the belief that she had been staying in Norwood because of the distance of the clinical and not because of bad weather. Is it known what day she returned the clothing and to whom it was returned? Was the person also a student at UMass Amherst?(approximately a 2 hour commute)

firecat...this is what I understood from peabody back in the earliest days of the forum:

Peabody wrote:
She also called her friend late morning of 2/9/04 and left a message that she would not be needing a ride to nursing clinicals "for the rest of the week" and that the borrowed nursing jacket had been returned and laid on her (the friend's) bed in case she needed it "while I am gone". This information was also gathered by UMass Police and later confirmed by the family when they received her cell phone records.(This was a supporting bit of info by the NH SP for the suicide theory: suicidal people often return or give away things to people - yet they did not know this when they first mentioned suicide to the family on the evening of 2/11)

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

L4Moose
we don't really have PA in Nova Scotia, most are employed in the Military or on oil rigs, they are not main stream by any means...we have no course here..
I am sure that Helena told me that Maura's clinical was in Holyoke (m.s.) and that it was
in Ped's. I would have remembered if it was OBS. because that is the easiest clinical there is, in my opinion
someone asked me about the scrubs, I wasn't so sure that they got returned, just that the last call Maura received was from her classmate who had loaned her the scrubs..
I was rather taken aback that a nursing student would have to travel so far, however at my last job, the nursing students came from 80 miles away, had to pay their own room and board and the whole nine yards..and this was just a medical unit rotation, nothing special like psychiatry or Ped's rotation...

Apparently its much more mainstream in Ontario (http://www.caopa.net/ ) than it is in your area. Holyoke is much closer to Amherst (about 20 minutes driving I think) as opposed to Norwood (almost 2 hours of driving) So anyone/everyone, were the clinicals in Holyoke or were they in Norwood?

mcsmom wrote:

firecat...this is what I understood from peabody back in the earliest days of the forum:
Peabody wrote:
She also called her friend late morning of 2/9/04 and left a message that she would not be needing a ride to nursing clinicals "for the rest of the week" and that the borrowed nursing jacket had been returned and laid on her (the friend's) bed in case she needed it "while I am gone". This information was also gathered by UMass Police and later confirmed by the family when they received her cell phone records.(This was a supporting bit of info by the NH SP for the suicide theory: suicidal people often return or give away things to people - yet they did not know this when they first mentioned suicide to the family on the evening of 2/11)

Where was the friend located? Is this the same friend as the one in Norwood that she stayed at during the bad weather? Why would she have been getting a ride to clinicals but then feel confident enough in her vehicle to take it to the White Mountains? Thinking outloud here--I don't expect anyone to have answers to those questions.

Ben,
Thank you for responding to me constructively and honestly. I've been paging through the message board as best I could. I just wanted to make sure I had accurate information and attempt to clear up some uncertainties.

Thanks!

Firecat:
"These are ALL questions that need to be brought up AGAIN AND AGAIN until they're sufficiently answered. They are in fact things that lots of us have also noticed.

YES the accident report is entirely vague and unclear.

That's not nitpicking, that's attention to detail, and it's EXACTLY what Maura's case needs. Keep picking nits!! Please!!:)"

I most definitely will keep nit picking. I don't know this family personally but I have been drawn to this case and want to try to help as best I could. I feel that these questions are important and deserve to be answered. Do you know if any of these questions have been brought up by the family? And if so, do you know what the responses were by LE?

Also, someone brought up the fact that she gave back a lab coat to a friend and they are deeming that evidence that it may be a suicide attempt because of that. Just for clarification, giving people things before disappearing doesn't necessarily suggest she was planning a suicide attempt. If she had given away something valuable that she cherished right before she left then I would agree with that statement as thats what is taught to nursing students and crisis counselors. So, giving someone their lab coat back prior to disappearing doesn't sound like its suggestive of that. It just sounds like she wanted to return what she had borrowed. Wasn't it the friends lab coat?

Also, someone had responded to my previous post about the accident report I viewed and told me that it wasn't the "real" report and that it was probably not concise because its not the one they use in court. Thats completely illogical. I've worked in emergency services for years and have plenty of officers as friends, we are trained to complete a report as concisely as possible because if it is used in court or needed for an investigation, which obviously with a missing person it would need to be looked at in the future, then f something isn't written then it NEVER happened and if something was misrepresented then that shades your credibility and jeopardizes the case/investigation. This accident report was on the MMM site. I can't imagine they posted a fake report. Some of the information was blocked, and rightly so, its their private info and its really not necessary but its looks pretty authentic to me. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure there are other reports like a missing persons report I have yet to see or other transcriptions we aren't privy to but I believe this accident report is as completed as its going to get. You can't change a legal document for court purposes prior to presenting it as evidence. Then its null and void. And honestly, I don't care how busy the officer was that night, if they were over staffed or understaffed, that report should have been completed as quickly as possible with ALL information recorded properly. And guessing about the state of the driver if he hasn't SEEN the driver isn't accurate. How does he know she was intoxicated? It could have been due to head trauma not necessarily because she had been drinking. We don't even know that the bus driver is telling the truth so how can the officer take his statement about Maura into account and say on the accident report she was drunk? Its just a little odd the way this report was completed.

How thoroughly was the bus driver checked out? Are we certain he is telling the truth? I hate to suggest anything unsavory about a possible good samaritan, but watching the video of the drive down that fateful road I got a chill when the camera passed that bus parked in the driveway. I know I may be way behind in this investigation but please at least put my mind at ease...

Why would anyone be driving a bus that late on a Monday evening? Guess there are some possible explanations like night school or bowling league or something but seems unlikely, especially since no one else was on the bus at the time. 5pm, I'd understand. Has he been asked why he was driving the bus (and not whatever other car he probably has) at that hour?

Pointer, he had dropped off students at the local school, from a ski trip.

new to forum. became aware of case cnn 11/25/08. trying to catch upmany many post to read thru, some contradict. anyway when was last weeper posts

Whiston LE has photographs of tire tracks into the trees so going to have to disagree on the
information that the Saturn did not hit those
trees since I saw the photograph.
If LE took photographs I'm going to go with the gut reaction SOMEONE has compared the tires to that car.
So I do believe LE has done way more with the car than people are giving them credit for.

whiston wrote:

hi new people here and thankyou. The saturn found in N.H that mr.Murray owned did not hit the trees nor sustain any damage where it was found.This story has been repeated over and over in the press and was long ago disproved.Whether Maura Murray ever got to N.H. in the saturn is unknown.The last place she may have been is Amherst M.A.WHY she left Amherst and where she intended to go is still a mystery.Her family refuses to allow the public to know where she worked, what her class schedule was and where she had her clinicals.Why is a mystery to me.Her family has reportedly never seen the last video at an ATM where she withdrew 280 dollars,the day she vanished.They have painted a picture of the perfect American girl with the great future.Whether she wanted what they wanted has not been discussed.She had alot of problems in her life from her early years.For some reason her family has not let it be known and her friends, or should i say people she came into contact with, have mostly chosen or been asked not to talk about Maura.Maura has never been,thank God an unsolved murder case.I cannot understand why the people she knew in her past have not come forward and talked about her prior life.I really hope she is alive and well and living a good life someplace.There are too many things that dont make sense both on the side of law enforcement and the Murray family.Cousins of Maura please dont give me the disrespect of the Murray family speech ,it is played out.As for Mauras friends from her past ,i hope you find the courage to speak up.Where did Monahan or Monaghan go in all of this.He was there ,what does he have to say .It seems nothing, yet.What about Rick Forcier .As far as i know his land has never been searched .Is his house still on the market.. take care philip

Whitewash, thanks for this reminder re the Saturn:

"... the car was impounded it was in a locked secured area that night!
At 11 PM a search warrant was obtain by HPD.
At appox. 9 AM a search was granted.
At appox 11 AM (I believe) HPD performed a
search.
Evidence has been logged.
There is an inventory list.
So not sure how people can say the chain of evidence wasn't kept?..."

It was in the Sheriff's Log that LE requested a search warrant and they began the search at 11AM Tuesday; many of us had the image of the Saturn sitting outside at LaVoie's unattended. Maybe we can give LE credit for securing the Saturn (crime scene --- if it is one), quickly getting a search warrant and presumably getting all needed samples for testing the next morning.(I think this was done by officers other than Smith, since he had worked a late shift Monday night.) That's pretty efficient for a disabled car! I wonder what Cecil Smith saw inside the car? What made him keep other responders keep at a distance? Of course, it might've been the red liquid splashed around and Cecil Smith wasn't taking any chances... it might've been blood. To me, with no personal LE knowledge, what was done this first night seems like the right stuff. I was going to suggest that maybe a bit more driving up and down the road to look for the possibly injured driver would've been called for, but then Smith and Atwood DID drive around looking for her...