Where is MAURA MURRAY

WHITE WASH wrote:

Ok so once the rig is moved they have perhaps a bottle with booze so
now you have a DWI.
<quoted text>

WW, with all due respect....and I sincerely mean this because you have great information.....where is the proof that the bottle with booze had been in Maura's possession?

There's alcohol in the car. There's a bottle under the car with an alcoholic odor.

Is there a witness that can place alcohol in the hand of Maura? It cannot be a DWI based on these things.

The one witness that spoke with her, that is known, has repeatedly insisted Maura was not intoxicated. This is the only thing that has remained consistent with this witness's story.

Based on these things that are known, there is no proof she was DWI. I'm not denying there is a possibility. But it is not a definitive issue. Unless you know something you're not sharing? Has the bottle been fingerprinted? That would clear up the issue if so.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh gawd......I can ask this question but I don't want to be held accountable for the answer. I've been burned.

So, I guess based on LE's awareness of crime statistics, time can be wasted checking out the families of victims as the perps flee. That can make you scream. I also wonder if I'd hesitate in telling LE everything initially if I realized the picture it formed would mislead them. It's a Catch 22. Tell them the whole truth and they draw the wrong conclusion and waste time. Hedge and they look at you suspiciously and don't trust you anymore. What do you do??????

WHITE WASH wrote:

Oops sorry wasn't being forced
without putting up a struggle.

ITA, which leads me to believe that if she were abducted, she got into the perps car/truck willingly, went to their house willingly and was caught of guard, or she was unconscious, or there was more than 1 person involved in taking her. The latter (more than 1 person), for a number of reasons, seems very unlikely to me.

3. w/o looking for argument. we don't know what he said. If we assumed the basic is true. He did not see anyone. how confident was he in his witness? not sure how sex of subj. effects anything.
4. chief no inclined to release certain info. it may be detrimental to case. and good point brought up sharon not family technically.
5. being new don't know full story behind bolo. but bolo for who a ime do we know id . not o we speak to owner do we know for sure who was driving. no one at this point suspects foul.
not discounting your thoughts just trying o give a differen point of view.le always easy target.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Of course not. That's why they would go out in two cars, so she wouldn't know that the second car was involved. She'd recognize the first car, of course. But she'd be grateful for the motorist who came along and said, "Gee, I saw what that jerk did to you, you need a ride somewhere?" not realizing that he was part of the scam.

Just curious, if they went out in two separate cars, and the perps didn't know Maura, how would they have had time to plan this through. They would've have been taking a serious risk at getting caught, and just happen to have two cars ready to go just for this random chance event. Now if they knew her, and this was planned, chances are they would've been following her from Amherst, right? In which case, it seems unlikely that they would have taken two cars because they would be increasing their chances of losing her, and again, increasing their chances of getting caught. I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm just having a hard time making sense of it and perhaps you can say more about it.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
WW, with all due respect....and I sincerely mean this because you have great information.....where is the proof that the bottle with booze had been in Maura's possession?
There's alcohol in the car. There's a bottle under the car with an alcoholic odor.
Is there a witness that can place alcohol in the hand of Maura? It cannot be a DWI based on these things.
The one witness that spoke with her, that is known, has repeatedly insisted Maura was not intoxicated. This is the only thing that has remained consistent with this witness's story.
Based on these things that are known, there is no proof she was DWI. I'm not denying there is a possibility. But it is not a definitive issue. Unless you know something you're not sharing? Has the bottle been fingerprinted? That would clear up the issue if so.

could not agree with you more a bottle of alcohol in veh means nothing definite.
but being at the scene that alcohol may be one of the things that would lead you to believe that driver left the scene for a reason. that coupled with sbd telling you driver didn't want le called. A police offficer is guided by doing what is reasonable. if you are there what is your assumption. possible dwi didn't want to arrested. no sign of struggle no report of sruggle. did a preliminary search according to report to no avail.

is what he did that unreasonable. do not look at it with hindsight. do not look at it knowing anything other than you are responding to 1 car mva. do you really feel you would have called out he national guard especially if your experience told you other wise. would you have not gone to suicidal teen. remember all he was dealing wih hindsight makes for 20/20

keyboard acting up sorry for misspell. ps just offering alternative point of view

It's called an investigation of course
they tell the family what they can
but they are working a case.
And it doesn't happen as fast on TV.
Joe Blow gets called by HPD blows them
off HPD rides out to middle of no where
to find Joe Blow isn't home or is and
not answering.
So HPD starts looking for Joe Blow who
knows HPD is looking for him but does the DL.
Anyone want to guess just how long this can go on?
Maura was also an adult who committed a crime. Sadly as much as Sharon or the family views them as related they are
no in LE eyes.

Quija wrote:

Again, those familiar with LE can help with this: Wouldn't LE have kept all information private from the family until they had checked out where each person was, what their job schedules were, etc.? LE doesn't know until they investigate things what kind of relationships a family has. And it's possible that either several things didn't sound right, or that it appeared those closest to Maura might not have been totally frank. Who knows? Sometimes the most innocent have a block of time that can't be corroborated.

Hello all,

Just two points here:

1. Let´s not forget that Maura, whatever her state of mind at the time, was a highly trained West Point cadet, well versed in military self-defence techniques.
Definitely not the "girl-next-door" kind of young lady and most certainly not an "easy" victim for an evil perp.

2. The tracker dogs apparently lost Maura´s scent at the corner of Rte 112 and Bradley Hill Road by the SBD house.
The most likely scenario, IMHO, would be that Maura probably got into a passing car at that point, most likely willingly.
As far as can be ascertained from studying Google Maps, etc, there are several houses in the immediate neighbourhood of the Rte 112/Bradley Hill Road corner and thus this particular spot would seem like an unlikely place for an abduction attempt.

Surely this bottle of alcohol was tested for fingerprints/DNA as there would have been plenty of DNA if someone was drinking it. At least this would tell us for sure that Maura was in her car. Perhaps they did test it and that info has not been released? Does anyone know if the bottle was tested?

She didn't sleep well so I'm not going with the pass out theory and back to
the military training. You can leave
West Point but West Point never leaves
you!

Second I believe one person.
Two people or more someone always
gets pissed off and sends them up the
river.

There just is not the chit chat on this case like the others.

What did TM threw SBD under the bus?
What's the beef there? TM watches from
his window never comes outside?
Never contacts HPD they went to him.
Neighbors up until a 2 years later
believed he wasn't home.

Mastermind wrote:

<quoted text>
ITA, which leads me to believe that if she were abducted, she got into the perps car/truck willingly, went to their house willingly and was caught of guard, or she was unconscious, or there was more than 1 person involved in taking her. The latter (more than 1 person), for a number of reasons, seems very unlikely to me.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

<quoted text>
Well I am just considering liabilities, nothing at the accident scene indicated it was a walkaway, hardly as it must have been obvious that the 20 year old might have been injured, or at risk from alcohol intoxication or both, that sheds a differnt light on simply notifying someone that their car has been in an accident.
My sister was in an accident, and the RCMP came to my house because I did not have a phone, drove me to the station allowed me to call the hospital to enquire after my sister's health...and drove me home...
I think personally given the liabilities involved, Smith or Dispatch should have called the Weymouth police, besides they had enough on their plates..I wouldn't have gone home until I knew Mr. Murray was going to be looked after per/se and given the number of staff, limited resources, I'd have asked Weymouth police in a heart beat to find Murray and let him know his daughter maybe injured, or whomever the young 20 year old was driving his car. Because if the car crash victim died on the road or in the woods..I'd want my but covered...and it would be one thing of a thousand on my mind that I could be sure was looked after, and I would not be incriminated later by any backlash or if anything untoward happened to the occupant of the car whom I knew to be alone and intoxicated...and had an air-bag blown into their face, and from out of town...
these are just my thoughts of what I would have done, and I assume that their must have been some inkling amoung the troupe at the scene that the person involved in the accident might be injured?

In my opinion everything at the scene indicated it was a walkaway. There was no blood, no signs of a struggle and no person.
This type of accident is much more common here than you might think. A couple years ago two young men flipped their car over on it's roof in front of a neighbors house and not far from 112. There was no one in the car when police arrived and the FD was asked to BOLO for them. LE found one and FD saw the other running thru woods.
I'm just saying this not because even though it's not an everyday occurance it is not that unusual to find a vehicle that has been in an accident or gone off the road with no occupants in it.
Your sister is a completely different story. She evidently was still at the scene of her accident since they identified her and took her to the hospital.

Eurobserver wrote:

Hello all,
Just two points here:
1. Let´s not forget that Maura, whatever her state of mind at the time, was a highly trained West Point cadet, well versed in military self-defence techniques.
Definitely not the "girl-next-door" kind of young lady and most certainly not an "easy" victim for an evil perp.
2. The tracker dogs apparently lost Maura´s scent at the corner of Rte 112 and Bradley Hill Road by the SBD house.
The most likely scenario, IMHO, would be that Maura probably got into a passing car at that point, most likely willingly.
As far as can be ascertained from studying Google Maps, etc, there are several houses in the immediate neighbourhood of the Rte 112/Bradley Hill Road corner and thus this particular spot would seem like an unlikely place for an abduction attempt.

"highly trained west point cadet".
just as she was not an RN, so, too, she was not a graduate of west point.
since i am not familiar with the rigors of west point training, i wonder how far along she had come in the program, and how extensive and complete was her military training before her transfer to UMASS?

still, a thin 5'7" 120 pounder may not be a physical match for a large, ill-intended man.

Link to article describing police search for missing woman posted by SilkyBoxerz -

TOPIX does it again, I posted a corrected link but it disappeared, here is a working link:

http://news.webshots.com/photo/23364432500988...

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
WW, with all due respect....and I sincerely mean this because you have great information.....where is the proof that the bottle with booze had been in Maura's possession?
There's alcohol in the car. There's a bottle under the car with an alcoholic odor.
Is there a witness that can place alcohol in the hand of Maura? It cannot be a DWI based on these things.
The one witness that spoke with her, that is known, has repeatedly insisted Maura was not intoxicated. This is the only thing that has remained consistent with this witness's story.
Based on these things that are known, there is no proof she was DWI. I'm not denying there is a possibility. But it is not a definitive issue. Unless you know something you're not sharing? Has the bottle been fingerprinted? That would clear up the issue if so.

Did they find her fingerprints on the bottle? If not, it is only supposition it was her bottle.

West Point- About The Academy
http://www.usma.edu/about.asp

West Point Cadet Military Training
http://www.usma.edu/military.asp

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
In my opinion everything at the scene indicated it was a walkaway. There was no blood, no signs of a struggle and no person.
This type of accident is much more common here than you might think. A couple years ago two young men flipped their car over on it's roof in front of a neighbors house and not far from 112. There was no one in the car when police arrived and the FD was asked to BOLO for them. LE found one and FD saw the other running thru woods.
I'm just saying this not because even though it's not an everyday occurance it is not that unusual to find a vehicle that has been in an accident or gone off the road with no occupants in it.
Your sister is a completely different story. She evidently was still at the scene of her accident since they identified her and took her to the hospital.

Agree. It does appear to be a walkaway. Vehicles are abandoned after accidents for various reasons which I don't need to detail.

Nor is the presence of an out-of-state car in the area unusual.

Again, only hindsight is 20/20 when criticizing LE.

WHITE WASH wrote:

It's called an investigation of course
they tell the family what they can
but they are working a case.
And it doesn't happen as fast on TV.
Joe Blow gets called by HPD blows them
off HPD rides out to middle of no where
to find Joe Blow isn't home or is and
not answering.
So HPD starts looking for Joe Blow who
knows HPD is looking for him but does the DL.
Anyone want to guess just how long this can go on?
Maura was also an adult who committed a crime. Sadly as much as Sharon or the family views them as related they are
no in LE eyes.
<quoted text>

If the crime to which you are referring is "leaving the scene of an accident" it's only a crime if she left under her own volition. This has not yet been determined as fact.

Quija wrote:

People were tossing the idea around a while ago that not only did R.O. see the red truck, but the way SBD was backed in, he might've seen it too. Told CS. Red pickups were stopped that night and into the following morning. Thus, the one thing SBD has always been uncharacteristically quiet about is seeing the make and model of the 5-6 vehicles that went past his house while he was watching.
I doubt red truck guy followed Maura all the way from Amherst. Maura is beautiful, but if he was a perp, you'd think he'd try a convenience store or a mall parking lot a lot closer for his "hunting". A place familiar to him, in his comfort zone.
It doesn't make sense either that he drove all the way up there in tandem with her as a guardian in case the Saturn broke down. Too many alternatives (like, uh, ONE vehicle) if they were, say, going to some event at another college... Then it just gets too complex to think, "well, she was going to stay a few more days than he was so they took 2 vehicles" ... and who would be her guardian on the way back in the unreliable Saturn? Doesn't sound right.
LE and PIs would already know if red truck guy was one of the staff members from Beckett looking for the student who disappeared from the work detail. I understand LE was notified after 9PM, but that doesn't mean staffers, administrators, his counselor from another town were not looking for him. Those of you who know how LE works, could SP or local LE have gotten an "under-the-radar" call to look for the student, before this sensitive matter was officially logged in? Just another way of looking at the red pickup truck.

I have wondered what the School Bus Driver saw, as his neighbour Marriot states that he stayed on his bus a longtime. Given he was the alleged source of Maura intoxicated statement, you'd think he would want to watch the accident scene to make sure Maura was OK. It is difficult to know what the SBD said, he has more versions than tales of the arabian nights... no offense meant just that his stories are changeable, even his own words are contradictory...

Did the school bus driver see the red truck? 64,000 dollar question...

Knowing what all the neighbours saw would be beneficial but that is not going to happen. And it is unfortunate that not one of the neighbours watching went to offer assistance, however, likely there are many accidents in that area and the good samaritian cover wears thin...

Did the other neighbours see the red truck pass by while Maura was on the road, they all stated they saw no one stopping.

We are likely not privy to know the reason why the police were on the look out for a red truck..
and it is possible it has something to do with the youth at the work centre going amuk.

I agree likely the place to hang about if you were a perp would be at the convenience store or at the stage stop store... or if there are any places on the 302/10

White Wash

My only question about Monahan at the scene is really why he was there, and if he has written a report of his findings and if not might it not be helpful? Certainly he could fill in where the alleged footprints were located?

Snow White
I agree with you that Maura would have called her family by now. If she succumbed to the elements or commited suicide the probably of finding any remains are minimal as the terrain is so vast and varied, and scarcely populated. Personally I think a perp took advantage of Maura when he saw her stop for gas or at a convenience store...

WHITE WASH wrote:

Maura was also an adult who committed a crime.
<quoted text>

Just to clarify, please.
She was an adult...yes.
The "crime" you reference is leaving the scene of an accident, I presume?

We still don't know if she was driving the car; or even if she was abducted along the way from Amherst to NH...and the car ended up in NH without her ever being there. No one knows for certain.