Where is MAURA MURRAY

Benji wrote:

<quoted text>Complicated case, but solvable. Bad info constantly planted here and elsewhere. Search for the obvious, ignore your immediate discovery, but look at the structure. The key is behind the structure.

How very cryptic. Just what I'd expect from "planted information."

White Wash wrote:

For the love of Maura please contact the LE with
this case let them have the information you
have.
<quoted text>

Saturnus, I don't think I've EVER agreed with White Wash more thoroughly and vehemently and whole-heartedly (get the picture) than I do on this post of hers.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

Normally universities have student pack their rooms because they go into clean the floors etc, and I believe you are not to post things on the walls, so if cleaning staff is coming in, you would removed everything from the walls and floors.

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. At least not true at any American college or university that I've ever attended or worked at. It may be a standard in Canada, but I've never even heard of it occurring here in the states.

Probably we could find out right now by logging onto UMass's web site. They'd be sure to have reminder announcements for students if it was the case......

A quick peek at this page: http://www.housing.umass.edu/calendar.html

reveals that the dorms close at noon on 12/20 and reopen on 1/25. So Maura hadn't been back in her dorm for all that long at all. It says nothing about cleaning, getting things off the floor, etc.

peripeteia Nova Scotia wrote:

Thanks for the information re: Stage Stop Store, well blow me over, could have sworn that I was corrected about Winnie's store and the stage stop not being the same place, well for certain that freeks me out, confusing to learn that Winnie's convenience store and the stage stop store are one in the same, stranger to me is that is where the SBD headed, and the direction that Smith headed as well...yet the car was allegedly headed in an Eastbound direction...makes no sense that everyone went to look Westbound..
...strange Smith nor School Bus Driver went into the store to check to see if Maura was there....

I assume they decided to go W/B on Rte 112 because that's the direction Sgt Smith believed she came from and that's the direction to take to find the closest motel to rent a room for the night.

Mason wrote:

When I read a message that contains a significant fact, or opinion, according to my subjective point of reference, I copy the entire message or the relevant part of it and paste it into a Word document that is growing by leaps and bounds.

If you want to get rid of the extra graphics during the copy - copy it into Notepad first then from Notepad to Word.

Also - Advocator may have use for copies of your copies - but I don't know.

I'm really suprised it her song has not been mentioned "For Maura". According to newspaper articles her friend wrote it and is singing. This is on her site. I think they should sell it and the funds to go to a fund to help find Maura. Her friend has a recording career for sure. Very touching song and her voice is amazing.

citi girl or det col - can you ask the family

i found her friend Jenny Brooks wrote it. It is beautiful....

Dawn wrote:

L - If you found underware two years later after she went missing - they would be in really bad shape just from the elements. We need to help find Maura not make up stories. I can see why the family pulled down the posting on her site.
citigirl - where are you?

Dawn,

Just to bring you up to speed, this is a topic that has been discussed on MMM.

Maura's sister Kathleen found a pair of underwear placed on top of the snow on a remote trail leading to French Pond during the initial search that was sent on for DNA testing which came up inconclusive. The size of the underwear were enough for Maura's family to conclude that the underwear were not hers. It was later mentioned on MMM that the underwear had been torn into two pieces during another underwear discussion.

A pair of woman's underwear were placed at the base of the tree with the blue bow two summers ago and underwear were strewn from tree branches in the past, as noted by volunteer searchers. It was speculated that the underwear were planted as a diversion.

There seems to be some sort of sick theme with underwear and this is something that has been openly discussed on MMM.com .

Lauriesgone,

I was thinking about your post tonite at work and I can easily understand why finding a pair of underwear would be unsettling.

Maura's underwear were missing from her belongings as reflected in the chain of evidence recorded taken from Maura's vehicle by LE.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. At least not true at any American college or university that I've ever attended or worked at. It may be a standard in Canada, but I've never even heard of it occurring here in the states.
Probably we could find out right now by logging onto UMass's web site. They'd be sure to have reminder announcements for students if it was the case......
A quick peek at this page: http://www.housing.umass.edu/calendar.html
reveals that the dorms close at noon on 12/20 and reopen on 1/25. So Maura hadn't been back in her dorm for all that long at all. It says nothing about cleaning, getting things off the floor, etc.

Firecat you're right. I think that Matt answered it on post #9131.

Mason,
Thanks for putting so much time and effort into your database of information. Hopefully it will do some good in cracking this case.

mason...we've been searching for someone like you for a very long time now....

RO stated on the old forum that she walked to the Stage Stop store because she allowed her daughter to use her car, and did so because the roads were clear that evening( at least in her area, RO lost another daughter in a car accident on Rte 112 so she was especially mindful of the road conditions that evening)

Atwood said off the record that had Maura gotten into a vehicle, he would have seen her, so he went westbound because he thought she was going to go back to the store that she passed.

mcsmom wrote:

mason...we've been searching for someone like you for a very long time now....
RO stated on the old forum that she walked to the Stage Stop store because she allowed her daughter to use her car, and did so because the roads were clear that evening( at least in her area, RO lost another daughter in a car accident on Rte 112 so she was especially mindful of the road conditions that evening)
Atwood said off the record that had Maura gotten into a vehicle, he would have seen her, so he went westbound because he thought she was going to go back to the store that she passed.

I agree mcsmom: that logically it would be the direction to search, as more populated, something to eat, somewhere to sleep, however, it seems illogical if they thought she was headed east.

Of all the things that Atwood said, most I find strange, at least what was reported in the news, what is the weirdest is what he did not say, at least that we know of...

sbd never mentions that he asked Maura where she was going....if I picture coming across someone who needs help, my first question would be are you alright, can I get you some help, and how far are you going...

I stopped a man on the highway (while I was lost) who was on the side of the road,(remote area) and asked if he needed help, and he said he called for help..I asked how far was he going....he said just down the road.

Personally speaking, I cannot for the life of me imagine that sbd did not ask Maura her destination as she was from out of state, and he had to have wondered...

then again perhaps he did ask...and didn't tell

...perhaps there is a reason he headed down to FPR, and as sophie bean pointed out, " I even went down to FP Road....

I often wondered if Maura went to the cottage hospital to look on the staff bulletin board, usually located outside a cafeteria, union news, staff news, items for sale, places to rent etc...
if I was looking for a cheap place to rent, and could not find any around, I would go to the hospital and check the bulletin board...

just thinking out loud!

Just curious- it seems as if CW's siting of someone who may have been Maura has been largely discounted. I'm wondering why? Is it because it isn't clear that it was Maura that he saw, or is it because he generally is not trusted?

It sounded like the time that he said he drove past this person corresponded to when he would have been driving home after his shift. And, if Maura had ran/walked from the accident to the point of the supposed siting, she could have made it 4 or 5 miles in an hour or so. So, in my mind, the person he saw could very well have been Maura. If it was, then we know that she was travelling East, which would be one more data point.

SOM wrote:

<quoted text>
I think it is the bulb for the turn signal.

Part 1

All the bulbs for turn signals that I've seen are clear. The plastic cover through which the light from the bulb passes is usually tinted red yellow. The blinking turn signal looks like a blinking yellow light to anyone looking at it. Therefore, I do not agree with your conclusion.
However, you got me thinking and maybe it's a piece of red plastic that broke away from a larger piece of red plastic that served as the cover for the brake light of another vehicle. If I'm right, perhaps Maura's car rear-ended another vehicle, or that vehicle backed into the Saturn.
The angle of impact appears to be approximately 120 degrees and the impact to my untrained eye appears to been the result of a low-speed impact as might have occurred in a parking lot. The damage to the hood of the Saturn appears to have been caused by a solid object higher than the Saturn's bumper. Therefore, a possible explanation for the presence of the red plastic fragment (if that's what it is) is that whatever may have caused the damage to the hood was positioned higher than the Saturn's bumper and directly above the brake light of another vehicle.
As to the possible cause of the dent in the hood, I offer excerpts from previous posts by BeagleBart.
Message #1112 @ p,55:
"Speaking of tow trucks... I almost fell over when, a few days ago, I saw next to me in a parking lot an older tow truck picking up a disabled 97 Saturn. On both the left and right ends of what I call - probably incorrectly - the tow bar extension, there was a small triangular metal block almost exactly the size and shape as the dent in the front of the Saturn. If the tow bar were coming at the Saturn from an angle, which is exactly how this driver started out, it could easily have dented the exact same spot as was damaged in the photo of the Saturn. And it definitely would have set the airbags off. It was just like watching a reconstruction of what might have happened to the Saturn."

Continue to Part 2

Mason fantastic idea, to catalouge the information, as time goes by it is difficult to keep everything straight, for example there has been some misinformation some wittingly some unwittingly, but none the less overtime, fact and fiction become somewhat meshed together and becomes the gospel truth...

I am so sorry that the information on the old forum has been lost, there are likely people who copied it, but not I, and three computers later the information is somewhere in cyberland...and of no use...wonderful if the information was catalogue to be easily accessed, especially for newcomers, and for aging people like myself who cannot keep it straight after 5 years...also many of the articles published cannot be accessed.

for example, the information on p. Vaisi, I searched the internet for 2 hours this p.m. and came up with nothing, and previously I found three articles...one in the University of Mass news and two in main stream media, cannot find them now!

Part 2
Message 1151 @ p.57:
"It is clear that the impact to the front edge of the hood, just above the headlight, was made by an object of a very regular, contoured shape. It really looks like the car was hit by a trailer hitch or similar manmade object.
A tree large enough to deflect the force of a car – a car which then hit a second tree and landed down the street a little - would almost certainly have caused a larger, more rounded dent. But more importantly, there is no significant damage to the front bumper below the hood, a bumper with a leading edge several inches in front of the point of impact on the hood. A regularly shaped object obviously struck the hood at front left causing little if any damage to the bumper. Therefore, the direction (or plane) of impact was approximately parallel to the ground. Like with a tow truck or a trailer hitch.
If you don't have a trailer hitch at home, look at one in a store. The shape corresponds very closely with the shape of the dent on the Saturn.
Even accounting for a resilient 5 mph bumper, it is hard to explain the very regular shape of the dent in the hood."
Message 1183 @ p,59:
"The Saturn almost certainly would not have been driven to NH before the dent was made. The headlight was too cockeyed and would definitely have drawn the attention of LE on routine patrol. Three hours on the highway after dark is a fairly long distance to drive without catching the attention of a Vermont State Trooper. The dent likely was made just prior to or at the Rt. 112 crash scene. Unless the Saturn was towed from Amherst MA to NH. Or the car may have actually crashed and stalled, then been hit by whatever caused the dent before LE arrived."
Message #1226 @ p.61:
"I showed a photo of the Saturn's hood damage to a guy with decades of body work experience and asked him what might have caused the dent. Completely neutral, no prompting. Without any hesitation he said, "looks like it hit the back of a pickup truck." I asked him whether the damage could have been caused by hittng a trailer hitch? "Oh, sure. Definitely." I asked him whether the damage could have been done by hitting a tree. "Definitely not," he said."

Continue to Part 3

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
Firecat you're right. I think that Matt answered it on post #9131.

Yah...I hadn't gotten that far in the reading yet. Thanks for clarifying and confirming, Matt.

Part 3
Message #1309 @ p.65:
"As the videos show, a pickup truck's bed can be fitted with a boom for towing. When not in use, the truck looks like any other pickup truck. If the towed vehicle is pinned, then the vehicle can be dropped almost anywhere very quickly, but not if the vehicle us slung. More conventional tow trucks can simply pick up a vehicle by either its front or rear tires, and the driver never has to exit the vehicle.
I think the Saturn is front wheel drive, but not sure. If so, then there might be a problem with the differential if towing it from the rear.
One possible scenario is that the Saturn was being towed by its back end, it left the paved surface a little on the curve, hit the snow bank sideways, the truck dropped the car - now facing west in the eastbound lane - the truck pulled ahead, waiting for Maura to quickly grab a few things from the Saturn's interior, Maura entered the truck.
Is there any reason to believe that this truck could not have been the one seen with Mass. plates?"
Message #1315 @ p.66
"It's hard to say what the ABSOLUTE likelihood is that the Saturn struck Vasi, but even if the chance is one in a hundred, it's still worth pursuing.
However, the likelihood of a Saturn hit-and-run RELATIVE to other theories is about 100 percent, simply because there are no other theories except fragmentary ones. The Vasi theory may, in fact, be chock full of holes, but at this point, what other theory explains so much from Thursday evening in Amherst to Monday night in Haverhill?
There is no attempt to advocate an undeviating, mindless devotion to a Vasi hit-and-run scenario – far from it – but the inexplicable resistance to such a promising theory reveals much. How is it possible that Haverhill has received so much detailed attention and Amherst almost none? Shouldn't there be a better balance?
If a hit-and-run theory cannot hold up under scrutiny, then rule it out by examining, impartially, its strong and weak points. If the hit-and-run theory fails, that's progress. But if it holds up, that's progress, too."
Message #1514 @ p.75:
"So you're saying that given the traffic past the Rt. 112 crash scene, it would have been hard to stage a crash? Or if Maura had been there, someone beside SBD should have seen her?
If you happened to look at the You Tube vids about towing, you can see how quickly a car can be picked up and dropped off by tow truck. I asked a driver about this and he said a Saturn could be towed either front or rear, but it would have to be done correctly because of tranny and steering problems.
If you see the vids about the guy who tows with his pickup truck, you can also see the tool box, which might account for RO's vague recollection that the rear window was small."
Continue to Part 4

Part 4
Message #1750 @ p.87:
If the Saturn had been running on only 3 out of 4 cylinders, it would have been a pretty rough ride to Haverhill, one far better finished during daylight hours, especially in February. 5 out of 6 cylinders would still make most people nervous.
If the Saturn had sustained its hood and headlight damage before arriving in Haverhill, it is almost impossible that the car would have been driven there. With one cylinder out, a cockeyed headlight, and a very noticeable dent/fold in the hood, it's pretty unlikely that it would not have been spotted by a cop - possible, especially after dark, but it's a heck of a chance to take by even most daring. And it is virtually certain the damage was not caused by trees.
So if the Saturn was driven there, it would have to have been driven for about 150 miles, in about 3 hours, with very poor performance. Which is possible - it seems to have been done in tandem with Fred's car while driving up from Connecticut at some time prior to Feb. 5. I think Maura drove one car and Fred the other car. Not sure. Still, it would have been a nerve-wracking trip.
Given the fact that the dent in the hood resembles very closely the damage a tow truck could have made (not that it could not have happened otherwise), and given the direction the Saturn was facing - west in the eastbound lane - it seems that the most likely way the car arrived at the Rt. 112 crash scene was by tow truck."

Message #1789 @p.90:
"Today, I talked with the manager of an auto body shop who inspected Fred's Corolla right after the crash. He said he believed the Corolla was towed early Sunday morning from the crash scene in Hadley to Fred's motel. It was then picked up at the hotel by a different towing company and towed to his shop in Amherst for estimates and repair. Fred came to the shop to discuss the repair, etc. According to the manager, Fred told him that he, Fred, had just bought the Corolla for Maura to use – in other words, as a replacement for the Saturn.
I pulled my jaw off the floor as inconspicuously as possible, and showed him more pictures of the Saturn. He said it was hard to tell what happened from only the pictures, but it was his feeling that the front was struck on two separate occasions, possibly once by a pedestrian. He said the large dent in the front edge of the hood might have been made to camo an earlier dent by Vasi's leg, but he doubted it. He thought the big dent looked like it was from the stinger of a tow truck or from the rear end, quite possibly the trailer hitch, of a pickup truck.(No, I did not put words in his mouth.) I went to two towing garages. Both, with no prompting or leading questions, immediately said the same thing. I went to two more auto body repair shops. All concurred. The car did not hit a tree. The large dent was very likely caused by a tow truck or pickup truck or something manmade, maybe even something not vehicular, but not a tree.
He didn't know anything about Maura's disappearance other than the fact that she had disappeared. However, he said that shortly after the Corolla arrived at his shop, local police were all over it, inside and out, unlike anything he had ever seen. He said the police took a zillion pictures and left.
I don't know what all this means, but it sure is something to chew on."
Continue to Part 5

Part 5 (Final)

Message #1821 @ p.91:
"So it seems quite probable that if the Saturn's damage was sustained in Amherst, then the car was towed to Haverhill. If the damage occurred in Haverhill, but the engine was running on only 3 cylinders, then maybe the car was towed north and maybe it was driven there.
If the car was driven to Haverhill, then the main damage to it very likely occurred at or near the Rt. 112 crash scene. And the large dent is most likely the result of having hit a manmade object such as another vehicle. It is almost impossible that the damage resulted from the car's having hit any trees or a snowbank."
Bet you didn't think your comment would produce a response like this, did you? Sorry, but your comment got me thinking back to BeagleBart's impressive analysis that I think is important for all of us to read and consider.
His reference to a link to tow truck videos is embedded in one of the earlier messages that I cited, I think. Anyway, they show a repo man hooking-up a vehicle in a matter of a few seconds without having to get out from behind the steering wheel of his pickup truck.