Mason
Paducah, KY
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Judged:
1
Quija wrote: Wowzer --- it's cool. Early on here, a poster mentioned you had plain old common human decency, so you'll just have to live with that label. Fred's reaction to Maura's disappearance --- What I've read here made me think that since he spoke with her around 11:20PM Sunday night before she left that he might've had an inkling of SOMEthing... something more than writing accident reports... Whatever that inkling was, Fred has sadly and relentlessly searched the area around the abandoned Saturn, extending outward for a good distance. This brings up lots of ideas, including Fred knowing Maura well enough to know where she might've run off to in order to get away for a bit. It also makes me wonder (this will be controversial) if he was between shifts in Bridgeport, CT and arrived in Amherst, MA (by 4:30PM Monday) to drive in tandem with Maura for some reason, like getting rid of the Saturn?.(Was the Saturn used by some driver and involved in the Petrit Vasi hit and run?) If so, if they were driving together in 2 vehicles, and if at some point he noticed Maura wasn't in his sight anymore, maybe he turned around to see what happened and arrived upon a scene with the Saturn and SBD in bus, or a little later and Maura gone! What the heck do you do in that case? I don't know what I'd do if I was protecting a loved one or my family and I felt the Saturn might (after one or two skidding accidents in NH) still have evidence of a hit and run. I don't know if I'd talk to the officer at the scene. I don't know if I'd drive back to Bridgeport for my next shift, believing Maura being smart and resourceful found a place to stay overnight. The posts I've read here led me to this, including the fact (?) LE had been trying to reach Fred over a 20-hour period from Monday evening to Tuesday late afternoon. Fred returned the call at 6PM Tuesday and the police log (if correct) indicated Fred was frantic --- as anyone would be in that situation.) This would explain his initial fear logged in the police report that Maura may have run off ("old squaw walk") to end her life. It would explain him stating Maura was endangered. And, sadly, later, when she didn't contact her close family, it would explain the shock of realizing it was also possible she was abducted during that small window of time. Far-fetched scenario? I don't know... but it's the same huge pain for a father. It's what dads do --- help their kids. Did Fred try to help Maura with this problem? Last upsetting thought: With my family having alcoholism in its genes, if, as primary sources have said, the same is true in Maura's family... maybe with everyone trying to "help" Maura, she ran from the "threat" of rehab? I'm not trying to slander anyone -- we all have "stuff". I hope I don't submit this post. Quija, I honor you for having the courage to post this message. Thank-you, M
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White Wash
Lebanon, NH
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You did post it! I for one am glad you did! Thanks! Now we can get back to Maura. Let start seeing what fits and doesn't with the time lines! It's a case not a fairy tale of beliefs! Quija wrote: Wowzer --- it's cool. Early on here, a poster mentioned you had plain old common human decency, so you'll just have to live with that label. Fred's reaction to Maura's disappearance --- What I've read here made me think that since he spoke with her around 11:20PM Sunday night before she left that he might've had an inkling of SOMEthing... something more than writing accident reports... Whatever that inkling was, Fred has sadly and relentlessly searched the area around the abandoned Saturn, extending outward for a good distance. This brings up lots of ideas, including Fred knowing Maura well enough to know where she might've run off to in order to get away for a bit. It also makes me wonder (this will be controversial) if he was between shifts in Bridgeport, CT and arrived in Amherst, MA (by 4:30PM Monday) to drive in tandem with Maura for some reason, like getting rid of the Saturn?.(Was the Saturn used by some driver and involved in the Petrit Vasi hit and run?) If so, if they were driving together in 2 vehicles, and if at some point he noticed Maura wasn't in his sight anymore, maybe he turned around to see what happened and arrived upon a scene with the Saturn and SBD in bus, or a little later and Maura gone! What the heck do you do in that case? I don't know what I'd do if I was protecting a loved one or my family and I felt the Saturn might (after one or two skidding accidents in NH) still have evidence of a hit and run. I don't know if I'd talk to the officer at the scene. I don't know if I'd drive back to Bridgeport for my next shift, believing Maura being smart and resourceful found a place to stay overnight. The posts I've read here led me to this, including the fact (?) LE had been trying to reach Fred over a 20-hour period from Monday evening to Tuesday late afternoon. Fred returned the call at 6PM Tuesday and the police log (if correct) indicated Fred was frantic --- as anyone would be in that situation.) This would explain his initial fear logged in the police report that Maura may have run off ("old squaw walk") to end her life. It would explain him stating Maura was endangered. And, sadly, later, when she didn't contact her close family, it would explain the shock of realizing it was also possible she was abducted during that small window of time. Far-fetched scenario? I don't know... but it's the same huge pain for a father. It's what dads do --- help their kids. Did Fred try to help Maura with this problem? Last upsetting thought: With my family having alcoholism in its genes, if, as primary sources have said, the same is true in Maura's family... maybe with everyone trying to "help" Maura, she ran from the "threat" of rehab? I'm not trying to slander anyone -- we all have "stuff". I hope I don't submit this post.
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White Wash
Lebanon, NH
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www.cnn.com 27 years later Adam Walsh's case has been closed! I see! Thanks Mason! Mason wrote: <quoted text> Thanks. Will do what I can, but still need birth place and time. Maura is exactly one year, one month, and one day younger than my daughter and they look alike.
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Quija
Concord, MA
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I am sorry for any upset I caused by the content of the ideas I posted earlier regarding Fred assisting Maura dispose of the Saturn; but I felt it was time for someone to do so, just to clear the air. In so many ways it just doesn't make sense that Fred and Maura would do that when there'd be closer spots to do so.... Whatever IS, the truth is that Maura's dad and family are in perpetual grief. I figured I'd try to post that most offensive idea in a way we all understand. What I speculated Fred might have done for Maura, I think I would do too for anyone I loved dearly.
Coming inside to warm up fingers from shoveling heavy snow on a 1/5 mile-long driveway... I realize that a skinny Maura, without the proper heavy winter clothes would've been in bad shape without a good heater in the Saturn, and already "shivering" as SBD said.(If it was Maura.) Unless she was determined to end her life (we have little hard evidence for this, altho there is the soft evidence we've discussed), I suspect that if she wanted to warm up and survive she took a ride or went into a house whose occupants are not disclosing that fact. Running up the road is looking less and less likely to me. If others agree that at that point Maura wasn't likely to decide to run 17 (?) miles, then instead of being redirected 5-6 miles EAST as the CW's belated siting suggested, then we should return to the snowbank at the weathered barn.
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FireCat
United States
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elsewherebriefly wrote: <quoted text> If Mr. Murray stated his words were taken out of context than I believe Mr. Murray and his words were taken out of context. Me too. Of course, the trouble is, if one believes everything everyone has said about this case, there are things that are in direct conflict. But I DEFINITELY believe Fred in this case.
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FireCat
United States
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Judged:
1
Dawn wrote: I have to wonder if Benji and Beagle are the same person. Their messages are very similar - I don't want to think it is Mason......... I reported Benji for abuse also! Wow, Alden, Dawn's only been around since the CNN special, and already even SHE'S got you figured out. Yes, Dawn, you are not alone in that suspicion.:)
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Joined: Jun 7, 2008
Comments: 137
Arizona
ISP:
Denver, CO
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With regard to whether or not the Saturn was involved with Petrit Vasi, it seems unlikely to me that there would be anything much in the way of physical evidence on the Saturn that would connect it to Vasi. It was winter, it was very cold, there was snow and ice on the ground in Amherst. So no doubt Vasi was dressed for the weather and at least wearing a coat, scarf and boots. Unless he was struck hard enough to cause tearing of his clothing and exposure of flesh, the only possible evidence on the vehicle would be maybe dent/s and maybe some shreds of material. If no one saw such an accident, then some dents on the Saturn wouldn't be likely to raise suspicion. With Maura not driving the Saturn, who was going to pay attention to it and notice if it had a dent or not? So, to me, if Maura was trying to get the Saturn out of the area due to it being connected to Vasi, then this suggests someone saw the Saturn hit him. That could be the source of the upsetting phone call. Just some thoughts. I'm not sold on the idea that the Saturn and Petrit Vasi are connected, although the timing of his being injured, the strange phone call causing such a reaction in Maura, and her choice to drive such a distance in a generally "unfit" vehicle all give rise to the need to consider connecting those dots.
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Wowzer
Henniker, NH
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Judged:
1
1
Dawn wrote: I have to wonder if Benji and Beagle are the same person. Their messages are very similar - I don't want to think it is Mason......... I reported Benji for abuse also! Just my opinion but I think Benji, Beagle, Alden and more are all one person. Keep an open eye and you will see the multiple personalities at work. I believe there is another......
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FireCat
United States
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Dawn wrote: I noticed someone saying how patient Lady Grey and Helena ?? I know Helena is her aunt - i don't see any posts here from here. Is Lady Grey related? Helena does not post here, you are correct. I believe Lady Grey is related, but I'm not sure. She was, however, a moderator on the old MMM forum while Helena was ill.
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Joined: Jun 7, 2008
Comments: 137
Arizona
ISP:
Denver, CO
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Quija wrote: .... Unless she was determined to end her life (we have little hard evidence for this, altho there is the soft evidence we've discussed), I suspect that if she wanted to warm up and survive she took a ride or went into a house whose occupants are not disclosing that fact. Running up the road is looking less and less likely to me. Although, running is a good way to warm up and Maura would have known that.
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Mason
Paducah, KY
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Regarding the photo:
I confess not have read the posts on the photo with my usual thoroughness, which I'm going to go back and do.
If you're referring to a photo you saw on-line, the version you likely saw was a JPEG of the original. It's customary to copy the original in a JPEG format because it substantially reduces the resolution of the original thereby making it suitable to post on the web. The size of the file for the original might be, for example, 10 megabytes while the JPEG might be 500 Kb to 1 MB. They do this so that it doesn't take a long time to download the file. Otherwise, you might sit at your computer for awhile, run an errand, and return to see the picture incrementally still building, depending on your download speed.
You can contact the owner of the photo and purchase an exact copy of the original at the same resolution, or if you have Adobe Photoshop, you can copy the JPEG, change it to a TIFF, and then increase the resolution while sharpening the image contrast and brightness so that you can make-out the finer details that appear blurry in the JPEG.
JPEG files have dot jpg appended to the file name. TIFFs have dot TFF appended.
Pretty amazing what you can do.
M
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FireCat
United States
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White Wash wrote: My question wasn't rather you believe or not it was asking what other context is there for the saying? <quoted text> Plenty. For one thing, you just said this morning that you don't know how you'll react until you're in that situation. It might have been someone's defense mechanism kicking in and making a joke, which many people do at "inappropriate" times.(My family is known for finding anything and everything to crack wise about during funerals, for instance. It's just how we survive grief.) I know Fred had often joked to his kids that this was how he was going to die when he got old...... It may have been any number of other contexts.....which we can't know about until we hear Fred's words and the surrounding context. I think this may have been talked about a little by Helena or Sharon, but I'm not sure. Anyone else? LOTS of things are quite easy to take out of context, especially if it's an inside or family reference as heard by an outsider. The bottom line on that is that we don't know what context he intended until or unless we hear the actual quote surrounded by....well, its context, which is where it was in the conversation and the speaker's state of mind and intention.
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FireCat
United States
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Quija wrote: I am sorry for any upset I caused by the content of the ideas I posted earlier regarding Fred assisting Maura dispose of the Saturn; but I felt it was time for someone to do so, just to clear the air. In so many ways it just doesn't make sense that Fred and Maura would do that when there'd be closer spots to do so.... Whatever IS, the truth is that Maura's dad and family are in perpetual grief. I figured I'd try to post that most offensive idea in a way we all understand. What I speculated Fred might have done for Maura, I think I would do too for anyone I loved dearly. Coming inside to warm up fingers from shoveling heavy snow on a 1/5 mile-long driveway... I realize that a skinny Maura, without the proper heavy winter clothes would've been in bad shape without a good heater in the Saturn, and already "shivering" as SBD said.(If it was Maura.) Unless she was determined to end her life (we have little hard evidence for this, altho there is the soft evidence we've discussed), I suspect that if she wanted to warm up and survive she took a ride or went into a house whose occupants are not disclosing that fact. Running up the road is looking less and less likely to me. If others agree that at that point Maura wasn't likely to decide to run 17 (?) miles, then instead of being redirected 5-6 miles EAST as the CW's belated siting suggested, then we should return to the snowbank at the weathered barn. Quija--it's all good, I think, because you did so with respect and understanding that it was awkward and potentially painful. That's all anyone needs, I hope, to understand the spirit in which it was offered.
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FireCat
United States
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Advocator wrote: <quoted text> Although, running is a good way to warm up and Maura would have known that. True....until you stop. Then you're often even colder than when you've started, especially if you've broken a sweat. But you don't really focus on that when you're freezing your butt off on a winter night. You just think about running and getting warm.
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Mason
Paducah, KY
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looking4amoose wrote: Shack, Thank you for adding those words....is it OK if I "smudge" this forum with Sage and maybe do some distance Reiki on y'all? It might make for a more harmonious existance....and it can't hurt. So let it be written; so let it it be done. M
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FireCat
United States
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Mason wrote: Regarding the photo: I confess not have read the posts on the photo with my usual thoroughness, which I'm going to go back and do. If you're referring to a photo you saw on-line, the version you likely saw was a JPEG of the original. It's customary to copy the original in a JPEG format because it substantially reduces the resolution of the original thereby making it suitable to post on the web. The size of the file for the original might be, for example, 10 megabytes while the JPEG might be 500 Kb to 1 MB. They do this so that it doesn't take a long time to download the file. Otherwise, you might sit at your computer for awhile, run an errand, and return to see the picture incrementally still building, depending on your download speed. You can contact the owner of the photo and purchase an exact copy of the original at the same resolution, or if you have Adobe Photoshop, you can copy the JPEG, change it to a TIFF, and then increase the resolution while sharpening the image contrast and brightness so that you can make-out the finer details that appear blurry in the JPEG. JPEG files have dot jpg appended to the file name. TIFFs have dot TFF appended. Pretty amazing what you can do. M Mason, thanks for the info for the non-initiated.(White Wash is a professional photographer, though, so presumably this is old news to her!)
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White Wash
Lebanon, NH
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Judged:
1
1
Lady Grey is not related to my knowledge! Lady Grey was more of a self appointed moderator when Helena became ill. FireCat wrote: <quoted text> Helena does not post here, you are correct. I believe Lady Grey is related, but I'm not sure. She was, however, a moderator on the old MMM forum while Helena was ill.
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Mason
Paducah, KY
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Judged:
1
RE: WTF's post "Trust beliefs if you want. You might even get lucky once in a while and if you have no skills, luck can sometimes be a very good thing." Even if you have excellent skills and tools with which to work, "luck can sometimes be a very good thing." Loved reading your passionate outburst against superstition and belief, but what is reality? Quantum physics is teaching us that reality is energy, and form is energy held together in particle form by attention. "Spookiness from afar," as Einstein called it.
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Benji
Concord, MA
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Judged:
1
Don't misunderstand. I don't find my choices attractive in any kind of personal way. I find them attractive in the same way a field biologist finds attractive a great example of a certain species. The act of choosing them is a kind scientific admiration, the highest form, actually. They are chosen not for any selfish or deviant reasons, but instead for what their nearly perfect array of physical qualities will offer to those less well endowed or to victims of traumatic injury. Informally, we call it the Limulus Project, after the ancient Horseshoe crab. We see endless gradations or a continuous spectrum of battlefields in terms of time, location, composition of forces. We see war as a perpetual state of world affairs, fought in many ways in a multitude of overlapping theatres or venues. The battle for Falujah and the kidnapping by U.S. intelligence of the agent in Milan are one, easily. But so are securities manipulation and money laundering. Diplomacy, as we know, is often war by another means, maybe superficially less violent but no less dependent on the threat of or potential for violence. There is little difference between the soldier killed in action, a military hostage dying in captivity, and an American agent beheaded because his true identity was exposed after he infiltrated a terrorist cell. There is little difference between them and those we at Limulus choose to sacrifice for the greater good, for world peace. Eventually and realistically. Some might call it a limited kind of conscription. So, yes, I was thrilled when I first saw her, but not in a pathological way (conventionally speaking, that is). I was thrilled by the evolutionary achievement she embodied. And thrilled by the progress toward which she would contribute. Far better, far more productive than dying in the line of fire on a dusty street on the other side of the globe.
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White Wash
Lebanon, NH
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Ok we don't seem to be on the same page! So let's try! First off Eleswhere comment was directed to more of Fred's reaction given the situation. I for one have had a loved one missing! So that was my reply to Elsewhere. Second my question is still how can do the ole squaw walk be taken out of context when Fred Murray had to explain it HPD? My question was and is for someone to explain if Maura was not depressed why would Fred even have such a thought?? Bottom line for me is this doesn't fit! If it fits for you fine! So let's move on. FireCat wrote: <quoted text> Plenty. For one thing, you just said this morning that you don't know how you'll react until you're in that situation. It might have been someone's defense mechanism kicking in and making a joke, which many people do at "inappropriate" times.(My family is known for finding anything and everything to crack wise about during funerals, for instance. It's just how we survive grief.) I know Fred had often joked to his kids that this was how he was going to die when he got old...... It may have been any number of other contexts.....which we can't know about until we hear Fred's words and the surrounding context. I think this may have been talked about a little by Helena or Sharon, but I'm not sure. Anyone else? LOTS of things are quite easy to take out of context, especially if it's an inside or family reference as heard by an outsider. The bottom line on that is that we don't know what context he intended until or unless we hear the actual quote surrounded by....well, its context, which is where it was in the conversation and the speaker's state of mind and intention.
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