Where is MAURA MURRAY

hi all was the saturn seen by the atm camera or liquor store camera or mrMurray over thatlast weekend in amherst.was the search warrant asked for by sgtSmith whilst he sat by the saturn for one hour and forty minutes .was the search warrant asked for after the car was towed to lavoies after mike unloaded the saturn and saw something.what and when made the saturn a crime scene that required a search warrant.i dont know a car abaandoned by a drunk driver would not warrant a search warrant .what was the probable cause that would convince the powers that be that a search was a valid idea.take care philip thinkthis is key

hi all oops i meant to say .i dont know a car abandoned by a drunk driver would normally become a crime scene.if it was a crime scene before the car was towed why was it not taped and sealed and SECURED. if it was a crime scene after it was towed why was it not secured or was it.anyone know how long the car was at lavoies.take care philip

Did Maura or anyone close to her make any phone calls to the ICU at Baystate, possibly impersonating a member of the Vasi family, in order to learn Vasi's exact condition? Pod A is 4800, Pod B is 4820, and Pod C is 4840. It's certainly not unusual for hit-and-run drivers or their friends, claiming to be one of the victim's family members, to call the ICU for an update on the victim's condition. Many of the ICU nurses at Baystate, especially those with many years experience in the unit, are quite talented at screening these kinds of phone calls. Perhaps a nurse in the unit would recall such a conversation. Maybe LE would find it worth checking out. If they haven't already. Just a thought.

In the application by Smith et al what evidence asserts any nexus between the items sought
(alcohol ? light bulbs, Maura's personal effects) to what crime being investigated?
How did McKenna conclude that the items sought are
related to what criminal acts are alleged?

hi all what did sgtSmith tell McKenna to convince him a searech warrant was needed. did sgt Smith tell McKenna where the saturn was at the time and who was watching it, if anybody was. .if the warrant was issued without continuous police presence it was useless.was sgtSmith watching the saturn.as i understand it he was up in pike looking for a possible suicidal youth take care philip

Was there ever any article of hers found anywhere in the state after the accident? How did the airbags get deployed after it was towed? Why did Haverhill PD sell a SUV cruser that was hit in the rear and showed little damage? What were the mysterious scratches on the front of her vehicle at the scene? Theres something fishy with the hicks in the sticks!

They had no search warrant. They did shit at the scene and that is on the record. Poor police work is what we are talking about here. SLOPPY....JOE

MOE

Just moved in....looking at all the thoeries. This is a serious case.

Ape Man

Who's to say that the person seen walking awy was Maura? The eye witness changed his discription three times. He was even quoted as saying the person who walked away was Fred Murray.
Since the damage to her car was NOT consistant with running into a snowbank, and the eyewitness discribes someone else,a plausable theory would be that Maura was never up in New Hampshire. The fact that her car was here does not mean she was. It was staged and therefor the person who was driving and seen walking away could have been someone who could look like her with little effort. The question is, is who did the busdriver discribe. A simular theory has been in circulation and the perhaps with a keen eye and sharp listeners, underlined with the ability to read between the lines the answer is there.

I had always believed HPD got a search warrent because the driver had locked the car behind themselves...is this correct?

[QUOTE who="White Wash" An inebriated girl crashes her car and her subsequent disappearance is everyone else's fault except hers. Even her father admits she was probably drinking while driving. Let's see if we run this through. If she wasn't drinking she probably wouldn't have crashed her car. If she wasn't drinking and she crashed her car she probably wouldn't have tried to leave the crash site. If she wasn't drinking she probably wouldn't have wandered into the woods or been picked up by an unsavory character(s) that might have lead to her death. Either way the blame for what caused whatever sequence of event that lead to whatever outcome is clearly in Maura's ownership. She certainly didn't deserve whatever happened to her but deserve has very little to do with anything in life. >[/QUOTE]

Whitewash, I'm presuming that since this came from another source that it wasn't you posting it there originally, so this isn't necessarily directed at you. But here goes:

There is no inviolate proof that Maura was drinking. The only way to PROVE that Maura was drinking/drunk at the scene....is for Maura to have been around and been tested. Would that this had been the case, because then none of us would have to be here.

They can have EVIDENCE that POINTS TO THE LIKELIHOOD that she was drinking, but without Maura herself to blow a test/get blood drawn/whatever, there's no way to prove she was drinking.

Also, to say that she disappeared because she was drinking, the way this poster did is one slippery step away from "the b.tch was asking for it, because she dressed trashy" about a rape victim.

I've never seen her father admit that she was probably drinking. I may have read something that said that he agreed she might have been drinking....but I don't have access to it anymore, because my link to it was on the old forum. Mcsmom? Anyone else who can point me to this quote about her father and her drinknig? Either to confirm my memory or the original poster?

I believe what Sophie Bean would not tolerate was not discussion that she was drinking. Nor was it proof that she was drinking. So please, get off her case. What Sophie, nor anyone else on the MMM forum, would not tolerate, was simply the following: PEOPLE STATING AS FACT THINGS THAT ARE NOT FACT. If you want to opine something, knock yourself out. Tell me that you think Maura was abducted by aliens, that you think she was so drunk that she couldn't see straight, that you think penguins paddled up from Antarctica in a canoe and took her. But UNLESS OR UNTIL something is a fact, that can be backed up by empirical evidence, it's not a fact. "Maura was drinking" is not a fact. It can be 99.999999% bloody likely--and I don't really have an opinion on it, personally, maybe she was, maybe she wasn't--but we can't state it as a fact BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW.

I'm sorry for all the random capitalizations. I'm not trying to yell. I just have no decent method of emphasis except this.

Paris, I'd no idea of all that you and your family was going through. Jeez. Hang in there, all of you.

Whiston.....those would be some interesting facts to know, about whether or not there's anyone who saw the car (or a camera that did) presumably to find out if it was Maura's car involved in Vasi's accident, yes? But I don't know the answer.....just waving at the question so you don't feel ignored...would be interesting to learn.

So far, the hit-and-run scenario offers a very plausible explanation for the Saturn's damage, Maura's crying jag right after Vasi was hit, the Saturn's urgent and inexplicable relocation to NH four days later, the pick up truck with Mass. plates seen in the vicinity of the Saturn's discovery, and Maura's disappearance. That's pretty much start to finish. What other scenario does this?

Why such endless and stubborn resistance to a hit-and-run? What's the harm in checking it out? Obviously, if it could be established that the Saturn hit Vasi, then Fred would be in an uncomfortable position because he was the vehicle's owner, and therefore responsible for his car's operation if its operator cannot be found. But it's very doubtful The Commonwealth would pursue any charges against him in light of his daughter's disappearance. Vasi's insurance company might try to recover medical expenses, but at least that would not be a criminal matter. And it certainly should't take priority over learning what happened to Maura.

Find those who had access to the Saturn Thursday night and there's a very legitimate chance Maura's fate could be discovered. More time has been spent on less promising - and less productive - searches. Four years of concentrating on Haverhill and ignoring Amherst has yielded nothing.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>"Maura was drinking" is not a fact. It can be 99.999999% bloody likely

Agreed. It’s not a fact. But at 99.999999% probability it makes for an excellent working hypothesis.

Now we have a working theory why she ran away from the car and tried to leave the area. Now we just have to find her.

B

BeagleFart, please don't ask how or why your post jogged my memory, but it did!

Someone was recently talking about the boxes on her bed, and friends trying to dissuade her from going to her dad's hotel room in the middle of the night. What if that bit of it was as simple as that--she knew she was going to be up early because she and her dad were looking at cars, and she didn't feel like moving all those @%$* boxes off her bed to sleep in it for a few hours? It doesn't explain anything else, and it doesn't help us find her necessarily, but it might at least explain that.

It WOULD be very interesting to find out what the front end of the car looked like between Thursday and Monday.

WTF wrote:

<quoted text>
Agreed. It’s not a fact. But at 99.999999% probability it makes for an excellent working hypothesis.
Now we have a working theory why she ran away from the car and tried to leave the area. Now we just have to find her.
B

Providing, of course, that she ran away from the car, rather than left under duress. Which we still don't know either.

One of the things that has bugged me endlessly is WHY WHY WHY in a car full of stuff, which included a stuffed animal she slept with regularly *and* running clothes (as a runner myself, I know that running clothes tend to accumulate scent, even after repeated washing) it was decided that a LEATHER GLOVE would be used for scent tracking. Leather has a pretty decided scent all its own (and it turns out these gloves may or may not have been worn) and presumably the dog handler would know that.(was it Silky who knew the handler and vouched for his reptuation? God, it's so hard to be senile this early in life)

It just seems like the least logical choice. Why pick something that looks new, doesn't carry scent well because it has one of its own, and eschew something obviously well-loved and well-worn and permeated? Boggles my mind.

BeagleBart wrote:

So far, the hit-and-run scenario offers a very plausible explanation for the Saturn's damage, Maura's crying jag right after Vasi was hit, the Saturn's urgent and inexplicable relocation to NH four days later, the pick up truck with Mass. plates seen in the vicinity of the Saturn's discovery, and Maura's disappearance. That's pretty much start to finish. What other scenario does this?
Why such endless and stubborn resistance to a hit-and-run? What's the harm in checking it out? Obviously, if it could be established that the Saturn hit Vasi, then Fred would be in an uncomfortable position because he was the vehicle's owner, and therefore responsible for his car's operation if its operator cannot be found. But it's very doubtful The Commonwealth would pursue any charges against him in light of his daughter's disappearance. Vasi's insurance company might try to recover medical expenses, but at least that would not be a criminal matter. And it certainly should't take priority over learning what happened to Maura.
Find those who had access to the Saturn Thursday night and there's a very legitimate chance Maura's fate could be discovered. More time has been spent on less promising - and less productive - searches. Four years of concentrating on Haverhill and ignoring Amherst has yielded nothing.

Right, I believe it started there from the phone call when she stated" My sister, My sister." Why not start there?

FireCat wrote:

she knew she was going to be up early because she and her dad were looking at cars, and she didn't feel like moving all those @%$* boxes off her bed to sleep in it for a few hours?

Good point. Obviously, Maura didn't plan on crashing Fred's new car that night or getting a ride to his hotel room.

Speaking of tow trucks... I almost fell over when, a few days ago, I saw next to me in a parking lot an older tow truck picking up a disabled 97 Saturn. On both the left and right ends of what I call - probably incorrectly - the tow bar extension, there was a small triangular metal block almost exactly the size and shape as the dent in the front of the Saturn. If the tow bar were coming at the Saturn from an angle, which is exactly how this driver started out, it could easily have dented the exact same spot as was damaged in the photo of the Saturn. And it definitely would have set the airbags off. It was just like watching a reconstruction of what might have happened to the Saturn.

I asked the tow truck driver about stopping the engine by using a rag to plug the tailpipe. He said a rag would work, but it would have to be held in, otherwise it would blow right out. He said using a rag wouldn't be necessary for a tow truck driver because they all carry devices to open a car door when the keys are locked inside.

I was there at one of the searches and the things that Kathleen was saying about her sister were not pleasant....more alarming than anything! Then her hubby came over and shut her up literally. As they walked away he was trying to be discreet while yelling at her. With their suspicious activity, one tends to wonder...
Looking for comments...

Other than Maura, who had access to the Saturn?

If the Saturn, driven by someone other than Maura, hit Vasi, why could the driver rely on Maura to keep quiet about the hit-and-run?