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- Posted in the Franconia Forum
Comments (Page 594)
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Thanks Alden - you just let me know what you use as another moniker. Brilliant
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2 But in regards to this case almost everyone is lying, or keeping their mouths shut at the least. Even people on this board pass off lies as "facts", or twist opinions around to make them seem as "fact." If they are committing a serious offense, they are getting away with it. All the while Maura Murray is still missing and no one claims to know what happened to her. I don't think any kind of consensus from this forum will ever lead us to an answer. However, it's very possible that someone who participates here may get enough information, and have the mind enough, to make some kind of break in the case. However, I am skeptical at best because of the lies, the deception. I wonder, if someone did make a break in the case, who would cooperate? Do we trust LE, FM, the PI's? Why? Do we trust one another? Certainly not. Just look at the conversations here. I came to this forum with a genuine interest in this case, but there is something sinister at work here that makes me feel strange to even participate in this forum. It seems that some people are "in the know" about something, and that it is very sinister, very dangerous to cross certain boundaries when discussing this case. I understand that some people are here because of a personal agenda and that they never really reveal their intentions to us. They say their intentions are to find Maura Murray, but in reality that intention is secondary to falsifying information, covering up the truth, or distracting the few random people that show up from time to time to try to provide some insight and a challenge to the so-called established norms. For example, from time to time Alden shows up with a bit of information, and there is an immediate response from someone who discounts it and wants to make anyone who thinks that there is any truth to it feel like a complete moron. Why? The same theories are discussed again and again, and seem less and less likely everyday. Is this to direct the conversation, to distract new participants, to discourage them from continued participation? Is this to keep the focus on certain scenarios in order to keep the focus away from other scenarios? If so, which scenarios? A little under five years ago, the answer may have been very simple, just overlooked. Today, the asnwers seem to become increasingly opaque, with twisted and distorted facts, uncompromising opinions, etc. etc. |
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Truck,
I am one of the noobs. I can see your point and I can see the counter point. I am having difficulty determining 'Alden's' intentions. Maybe because of all the name changes. I started reading these posts from the beginning and someone had a similar theory as this "Alden' but went by a different name then. I read the latest 'Alden' theory post (a few pages back - as you say he jumps in time to time) and not much has changed. It is basically the same theory 9,000 posts ago. I did notice that whenever someone tries to have a conversation about something 'Alden' jumps in with 5 or 6 message unrelated to the questions being asked. The 'Alden theory' is interesting but sometimes I feel like it is being thrown in to the conversation at the wrong times and I get the feeling it is being done to stir things up or to start trouble. What do you think? Has LE ever looked into the 'Alden theory'? |
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“ Adopt Shelter Animals ” Joined: Jun 12, 2008 Comments: 425 |
Agree. Well stated. If I may also add: Paranoia seems to run rampant. Misdirected and personalized anger is a recurrent theme. Not only may a consensus never be reached, but at one point, it wasn't considered to be a goal. Wow! There are allegiances and divisions formed over nearly 5 years that don't break down easily. This, IMHO, is an exercise in futility. |
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1 Yes, and that is exactly my point, but he's not the only one... I am not hear to defend Alden, just to make a point - that from the very get go we are led into believing certain people and not others, into certain things and not others, when in fact, no one knows anything about this case, at least that we can say for sure. But most of the posters on this forum jump in with things to say, theories, etc., when they have already gone over these theories over and over again with new posters in the past. They lead you into a web of things that are very craftily referred to as fact based on source X, when how do we know where that piece of information came from? They will entertain your theories, but they will also keep you "on track," meaning their track, which isn't necessarily the one that will lead you to Maura. In reality, there are a lot of people that read this forum, rarely post here, but they feel like they can't penetrate the veil, so to speak. And the frustrating thing is that I am sure many of us feel that there is a veil worth penetrating and that they actively participate on this forum. I am not saying that such persons know exactly what happened to Maura, but they know that they are participating in keeping things a secret, or distracting from certain truths, playing mind games, or just generally trying to keep people "on track" to give up and go away. |
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I just posted this at the new Maura Murray forum.
ONE (1) night Feb. 9th 2004.... TWO (2) copies of GCSD Log from Feb. 9th 2004 printed 9 months apart but THEY DO NOT MATCH.... ONE (1) Log printed Feb. 10th 2004.... ONE (1) Log printed Nov. 4th 2004.... "WHY should they be different, it is from the same the night but they have several differences. Alterations have been made to these logs or at least to the one that was given to The Murray Family 9 months later on Nov. 4th 2004. If there was an investigation into Maura's disappearance at the time The Family was given this info then why would critical info be given to them. At that point in time this should have been classified info and not released without the proper paperwork through the proper channels, as in when Fred Murray filed the Freedom of Information paperwork. I am wondering who gave them this info on Nov. 4th 2004 and what the motive was behind the release of the GCSD Log to them at this point. Was it a mistake on let's say a new person working there that did not know the correct procedure for dispensing this info or was it an intentional ploy to get The Murrays to look in a different direction?" Columbo __________ "Oh....Just one more thing" |
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I also posted this at the new forum.
YES....I do feel as though the changes are very significant and that will be clear once the 2 logs are side by side for comparison. __________ "Oh....Just one more thing" |
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This is a multiple message regarding police procedures involving 911 calls, radio transmissions regarding those calls and logs of both. I offer this message to assist in clearing up some apparent confusion about these matters.
Part 1 1. A 911 tape is a recording of the conversation between the 911 caller and the operator/dispatcher who answers the 911 call. They used to be recorded on a very large tape recorder with a very long tape. I believe most dispatch offices now record the calls digitally and store them on a computer. A recorded call can be copied onto a tape or CD and provided to whomever requested it. 2. The operator/dispatcher who receives the call has to collect certain necessary information like the caller's name, address, and location. Then the operator/dispatcher has to evaluate the call and decide whether to send an officer to the scene to investigate and/or a fire truck or ambulance. 3. If a response is warranted, the operator/dispatcher puts the caller on hold and dispatches or orders a patrol officer to the scene. The conversation between the dispatcher and the patrol officer is coded because they know a lot of people listen to their conversations with radios and scanners. Officers usually are referred to by number. For example, Sgt Smith was referred to as h2, even though he drove h1, and that has caused some confusion to us mere mortals. Offenses also are referred to by a number associated with the statute that defines the offense. In Kentucky, for example, a 911 call about drugs would be termed a 218A because all of the drug offenses are in Chapter 218A of the Kentucky Revised Statutes. People to be investigated may be referred to as a suspicion person or subject, etc. This conversation also is recorded. 4. After the operator/dispatcher dispatches whomever to the scene, he or she will release the hold on the 911 caller's call and advise the caller that units are on the way, etc. 5. While all this is happening the operator/dispatcher is typing a narrative summary of what's happening and that information is saved in the log file in the computer. This the 911 call log. |
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Part 2
6. The log is a police department business record and for any period of time during any given day there may be any number of calls concerning unrelated matters. We want to review three things,(a) all 911 calls concerning this case,(b) all radio dispatches concerning this case, and (c) all log entries concerning this case. We want the log entries primarily as a reference to use in making sure we have all of the calls and radio transmissions. We also want the log entries, of course, to review the narrative summaries that function as a sort of table of contents to use in finding the calls and radio transmissions that we want to review and we also want to compare those summaries to the calls and radio transmissions to make sure we haven't missed anything. We need to designate a time period for our request, so to be on the safe side we might ask for those three things during the period beginning 2/9/2004 through today, for example. 7. We don't have a right to any of this information and neither does Fred Murray. As a result of his public records request and ensuing lawsuit, he has apparently been given some call logs. Other than the one page that was posted on the MMM site recently but since withdrawn, we've seen the Haverhill log entries for 2/9/2004 pertaining to this case, and I believe this may be the cause of much of our confusion. 8. Let's say hypothetically that Haverhill 911 received 23 calls concerning 10 different matters between 7 pm and midnight on 2/9/2004. We are only interested in one of those matters. Assuming we had a right to copies of the calls, radio transmissions, and log entries concerning Maura Murray, we certainly wouldn't have a right to or be interested in anything else because it has nothing to do with Maura. When someone in the dispatch office starts to produce our copy of the log entries, he or she will only copy the entries pertaining to Maura Murray. This, of course, does not mean that the log file has been changed. It remains intact and we are getting a printout of Maura Murray's stuff. 9. Therefore, our copy of the log entries should be a multi-page chronological listing of all calls, radio transmissions and narrative summaries probably starting 2/9/2004, with FW's call at 1927 hrs. The last entry in the log will be at the end of the time period in our request. |
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Part 3
10. The Haverhill log does not directly reference the SBD's wife's 911 call because the circuits were busy and her call was routed through to Hanover 911. Her call should appear on their log together with a record of the radio transmission to Haverhill 911 and a narrative summary of both prepared by the operator/dispatcher who handled the rerouted call. 11. The Haverhill log indirectly references the SBD's 911 call noting a radio transmission from the operator/dispatcher at Hanover 911 contacting Haverhill 911 regarding the rerouted call. The Haverhill log has a narrative summary of the radio transmission prepared by Ronda Marsh, the operator/dispatcher at Haverhill 911. She called the SBD residence to verify what she was told by the Hanover 911 operator/dispatcher. The SBD's wife answered her Marsh's call and Marsh generated a narrative summary of that call in the Haverhill 911 log. 12. Haverhill PD and the NHSP probably requested the log entries, if not copies of the 911 calls and radio transmissions, from Haverhill 911. Such a request is routine. They would not have requested log entries from Hanover 911, unless someone read the Haverhill log and realized that a local 911 call was rerouted to Hanover 911. That "someone" should have been the person at Haverhill 911 who printed out the log, but if that did not happen, the NHSP probably does not have the Hanover log or yet realize that a local caller called 911 and the call was received at Hanover. 13. This kind of situation is not unusual and dispatch offices all over the country should have developed a way to easily spot "missing" 911 calls. For example, the operator/dispatcher might enter a particular code in the log when receiving a rerouted 911 call from another district or when receiving a radio transmission from another district that received a rerouted call. When someone at a dispatch office assembles and prints out a log in the future, the coded entry in the log would alert that person to contact the other district. I have no idea if that happened in this case. |
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Part 4
14. White Wash posted a 911 log on this site for 2/9/2004, but it was produced and published by a local newspaper probably in a local crime watch type section that informs readers of police activity during a recent time period. The log she posted doesn't list times and most of the entries are about citations issued to various people for traffic violations. Only one entry relates to our case and it only informs us that Sgt Smith was dispatched to the scene of a one vehicle accident on Wild Ammonoosuc Road and no injuries were reported. 15. White Wash posted a message here recently that recorded 911 calls are deleted after 30 days. I hope she is mistaken and Maura's case serves as a perfect example for preserving them. We want to know exactly what the SBD's wife said in the two calls. In the first call that was rerouted to Hanover, did she say the SBD told her that the female driver left the scene of the accident in a private vehicle? In the second call from Haverhill, did she say the SBD told her that he saw the crash and he had no idea where the girl was? The Haverhill log indicates that is what she told Ronda Marsh, but we don't know anything about the Hanover log. A narrative summary of a conversation that happened 5 years ago is nowhere near as effective as a recorded conversation of what was said if there is a dispute regarding what was said 5 years ago. A 911 call that may not seem particularly important at the time may turn out years later to be the key to solving a cold case and/or convicting someone of a murder. Let's hope that copies of those two calls were requested before the calls were deleted. I hope this explanation helps clear up the confusion. I also posted this message on the other site. M |
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Where is the second, and supposedly altered log? |
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Thank you Mason. What he says about not being privy to the information about other calls to 911. Is very well stated. That is what I was trying to say about the "incoming call" to Maura - it states on wikapedia this is from the Lodonberry site. I cannot see how this information was given out. They would have had to subpeona the callers wireless carrier - and due to privacy laws it would need to be VERY compelling - ie - the person calling was a person of intrest and facts supported that. OR that carrier is due for a lawsuit for breaking privacy laws.
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or they should "lawyer up" i love that phrase. I used it today to co worker who got got hit by a drunk driver in the famous seattle snow storm
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Joined: Dec 2, 2008 Comments: 25 |
Have you read the affidavit surrounding the Londonderry phone records?
Supporting Affidavit for Issuance of Search Warrant I, Todd D. Landry, do hereby depose and say; 1. That I am currently employed by the State Police and have been for the past ten years. Currently, I am assigned as a Detective at Trooop- F in Twin Mountain, NH. I have received extensive training in the investigation of criminal matters. 2. That on February 9, 2004 at 1927 hours the Haverhill, NH Police Department responded to a single vehicle motor vehicle crash on Route 112 in Haverhill, NH. Upon arrival, Sgt. Cecil Smith was unable to locate the driver of the vehicle. Subsequent investigation determined that the driver of the vehicle was MAURA MURRAY (d.o.b. 05/04/82), 22 Walker Street, Weymouth, MA. 3. A witness at the scene later confirmed that the driver was MURRAY. 4. An extensive search of the area has been conducted and MURRAY has not been located. 5. During the course of this investigation, Cellular Telephone records have been obtained by Law Enforcement that were used by MURRAY. A representative from Sprint Corporate Security advised this affiant that during the late afternoon hours of February 9, 2004an outgoing telephone call was made to Murray from the Londonderry, NH Sprint tower. This call had to have been made from within a 22 mile radius of the tower. The identity of this caller and telephone number has not been made as of this date. 6. That identifying the caller of the telephone call could be pertinent to the ongoing investigation and may lead to the whereabouts of Maura Murray. 7. Based on the foregoing, there is probable cause to believe evidence in the suspicious disappearance of Maura Murray may be found through Sprint Wireless Cell Tower Telephone Records, including any outgoing calls from the Londonderry tower of Sprint to Maura Murrays Sprint PCs number ********** for February 9, 2004 from 0001 hours to 2400 hours. Todd D. Landry
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If records of Maura's missing is kept from the public. How was this info released to White Wash?Or, who told her about this and where to find it?
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why not? what is the date of this affidavit? were the records never released? did the investigator determine this was a dead end? |
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Sorry, I am talking about the Londonderry ping.
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Joined: Jun 16, 2008 Comments: 472 |
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1 I have a question here for Detective Columbo: Was the purported, possible sighting of Maura in the Barton, VT, church on Fathers´ Day 2005 ever properly followed up? If so, who carried out that investigation? LE? PI´s? Others? Can you say whether this sighting was ever conclusively discounted and whether "Raykel" was ever positively identified? Personally, I still happen to believe that the mysterious "Raykel" could well have been Maura Murray. |
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