Where is MAURA MURRAY
- Posted in the Franconia Forum
Comments (Page 602)
sorry posted twice, the same thing
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Judged: 3 3 2 Also it was brought to my attention that the PM's from this site that are supposed to be private are being forwarded to the PI's by some of the so called "team". So what's up with this new site because something sure right. |
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Judged: 1 1 1 Should say "something sure ISN'T right". |
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Part 1 of 2 In every murder case the prosecution must prove death and causation beyond a reasonable doubt. When a person disappears without any direct evidence of foul play and no body has been found, death and causation can only be proven by circumstantial evidence. That is possible to do as the cases you mentioned illustrate. Maura's case is unique in many ways because so many issues remain unsettled. I'm not the only person posting here who doubts she left Amherst, for example, or that if she did, she was the person the SBD spoke to at the accident scene. Even if she was the person who talked to the SBD, I don't know enough about Maura's life to declare with confidence that she did not run away and start a new life. While I think it's more probable than not that she is dead, which satisfies the preponderance of evidence standard, I can't say that I'm satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the standard in all criminal cases. |
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Joined: Oct 16, 2008 Comments: 320 |
No spyware there. |
Part 2 of 2
The causation issue may be even more problematic without a body because, assuming she's dead, there is little evidence to help us choose between suicide and murder as the cause of death. Even if her remains are found during one of the searches planned for this spring, it may not be possible to determine the cause of death from a few bones. Without a body or an obvious crime scene with copious amounts of her blood present, a prosecutor will have good reason to doubt his or her ability to prove death and causation beyond a reasonable doubt. Another major problem is who did it? Let us suppose that next week a suspect were to confess to killing Maura. Would that confession be enough evidence of death, causation, and identity of the killer to satisfy the proof beyond a reasonable doubt standard? The answer is probably not because of the corpus delicti rule that requires evidence independent of the confession to corroborate it regarding each element of the murder charge. This rule dates back to England and the common law and its purpose is to prevent convictions when the only evidence that a crime was committed came out of the defendant's mouth. The corpus delicti rule does not require independent evidence sufficient to prove the crime beyond a reasonable doubt without considering the confession. It only requires enough evidence that, if assumed to be true together with all of the reasonable inferences one might draw from that evidence, would lead a reasonable person to believe a murder was committed. A defense motion to dismiss a murder charge, or any other charge based on an alleged violation of the corpus delicti rule would be a pretrial motion that the court would have to decide. Such a motion presents a question of law that only a judge can decide. Juries decide questions of fact. To summarize, any prosecutor assigned to handle Maura's case will evaluate the evidence in light of the corpus delicti rule and the proof beyond a reasonable doubt standard. No experienced and ethical prosecutor will seek a grand jury indictment charging a suspect with murder unless he or she believes the evidence is strong enough to satisfy those rules. Without a body, or identifiable remains and a corroborating confession that rules out suicide, I do not believe a murder charge is likely. |
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Judged: 6 5 4 What reason do I have to believe Weeper? His answers seem contrived to support a very limited possibility in this case, which also helps keep the focus on Haverhill. I'm not saying that she wasn't abducted from Haverhill, I don't know. However, if he has so much more information than the rest of us, then why isn't he tracking down those leads? Is it because they are dead ends? If they are dead ends than how do they corroborate any of his evidence? How do they corroborate any of the things he claims to know? If they are dead ends, then they are dead ends, and to consider them as fact is a false pretense, is it not? He can't prove anything, can he? What information does he have to support his claim of being more "in the know" than the rest of us? If he knows something the rest of us don't then why isn't this case being solved. I don't think he is necessarily helping to cover something up (although maybe), or just lazy or whatever. No, I truly believe that he is lying and that his role is a part of a collective that wants to distract others from from questioning the relevance of Maura's private life prior to her disappearance. If those are his intentions, I don't necessarily think that it's wrong. Because at this point Maura is either dead or has disappeared of her own freewill (I suppose there is an outside chance that she has been held captive, but I doubt it). But to string people along by saying he knows stuff to support his claims is wrong. If he really knew something, some progress would have been made. I don't think he wants to make progress on the case, he just wants people to believe what he says. What evidence is there to support that Maura ever went to NH. Her car? The SBD? What else? If LE hasn't solved the case it's because they lack sufficient evidence or they don't want to. Given that scenario what possible information could Weeper have to solve the case? What possible information could he have to focus his energy on the crash site while turning a blind eye to all other areas in her life? |
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Joined: Oct 16, 2008 Comments: 320 |
Judged: 1 1 If you want to examine the source code of the HTML at the site, go into your browser and select View, then Source. If you want to see what is being transmitted to your computer - get a copy of Wireshark, capture the incoming network packets and examine them. http://www.wireshark.org/ If you think you found something, show us the evidence. |
Thanks for taking the time and effort to explain murder charges without a body. However, it is not beyond the beyond in this case if there is circumstantial evidence forcoming, however if Maura is found in a grave, she did not dig it herself. Finding her is essential, and possibly the perp knowing this might have moved her remains to parts that will never be found. Whether or not she left Amherst hinges on the SBD identification of Maura, which is suspect. |
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Judged: 1 1 1 The reason I believe Weeper is that there are 12 or more other team members in the League of retired New Hampshire detectives, and they would not permit him to run amuk in my estimation as that would discredit all of them, he has stated that they do not necessary all agree on every aspect of the investigation, however if Weeper was making statements out of the blue, they likely would put a stop to it... the PI licensing board...you can write to them and find out if he is accredited, and if he is under investigation for falsify information. As these men represent the Molly Bish Foundation, I'd suspect that they are all in good standing with their profession. My guess about not being able to nail anyone in this case is lack of indisputable evidence, or enough circumstantial evidence to bring this forward to a grand jury. Finding Maura's remains also would change things substantially. Frustrating as the lack of information is, it is what it is. I choose to believe the PI's because they know way more than you or I or anyone else here is privy to, too we have no access to what the police have tucked close to their breast, and for good reason. The last place we could look for information is here, as it is public and a tad of mayhem. We are entitled to believe as we choose, but I;ll stick with where Weeper has lead us before beliving anyone else here, except other detectives, trying not to exclude you Columbo. |
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Joined: Oct 16, 2008 Comments: 320 |
Judged: 1 1 1 Part 1 GET /c/jobs/js/job_widget.js HTTP/1.1 Accept:*/* Referer: topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/T66DK0TLH7P... Accept-Language: en-us Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0) Host: www.simplyhired.com Connection: Keep-Alive Cookie: sh2 HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently Age: 246 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:45:21 GMT Connection: Keep-Alive Via: Simply Cache ETag: "KXHLIIHMACZOTUYOU" Server: Apache/2.0.52 (CentOS) Location: simplyhired.com/c/job-widget/js/widget.js Content-Length: 260 Keep-Alive: timeout=15, max=93 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 301 Moved Permanently Moved Permanently The document has simplyhired.com/c/job-widget/js/widget.js GET /c/job-widget/js/widget.js HTTP/1.1 Accept:*/* topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/T66DK0TLH7P... Accept-Language: en-us Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0) simplyhired.com Connection: Keep-Alive Cookie:sh2 |
Joined: Oct 16, 2008 Comments: 320 |
Part 2
Judge for yourselves. |
Judged: 1 1 I agree with your comment. BTW, according to UMassGuy, who was a UMass student all of the residents on a floor at Kennedy Hall share a common bathroom and would at least recognize someone who was a resident on the same floor because all paths intersect in the bathroom. The only reference I've seen to a person who lived on Maura's floor was in Maribeth Conway's article. The girl lived 4 or 5 doors down the hall from Maura and she said she never saw her and did not realize Maura had a room on the same floor until after Maura was reported missing and she saw her photo in the paper. |
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Judged: 3 3 3 I understand why any member of Maura's family would want to protect her and the family's right to privacy. Yet, without a body and with few facts to decide whether her disappearance was motivated by her desire to run away and start a new life, or to commit suicide, or that she was a victim of foul play, how can anyone draw any conclusion regarding what happened to Maura? At a minimum, one would have to know why she decided to bail on her third week of clinicals virtually assuring that she would earn no credit and have to repeat the semester, if not get bounced from the nursing program for lying about a death in the family. This was not a casual decision to skip some classes and go skiing for a week as Just a Thought suggested. Given the disturbing phone call she received early Friday morning that appears to have caused her to leave school on short notice, she had a specific and vitally important reason to leave school. Her state of mind when she left on the trip up north also must be considered in deciding which of the three options is most likely. Maura's intent and state of mind cannot be determined without knowing what was going on her life before she left Amherst, assuming she did leave. So here we are again frustrated by a lack of information upon which to arrive at any conclusions. If the Murray family has revealed everything it knows about Maura's private life, warts and all, to law enforcement then none of us has a right to gripe about the veil of secrecy. But, if LE also has been denied information, then I can only conclude that the desire to maintain the All American Girl image is far more important to her family than solving her disappearance. If that is the situation, then I can only gasp, shake my head, and wonder how anyone would value image over substance to such an extent that attributing Maura's disappearance to death to an extremely improbable encounter with a serial killer on a Monday evening in a remote rural location is preferable to finding out the truth. As a parent and as a human being, I find that deplorable. |
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Found information which states that the CW saw Maura on the 112
WRITTEN GARY LINDSEY May 6, 2004 HAVERHILL NEW HAMPSHIRE "There may be a break in the case involving 21-year-old nursing student Maura Murray who disappeared the night of Feb. 9 after she was involved in a one-car accident on rural Route 112 in Haverhill. [color=violet]New Hampshire State Police Troop F Lt. John Scarinza said a witness has come forward with information he may have seen Murray about four to five miles east of the accident scene. Scarinza said a man, whom he declined to identify, was returning from a construction job in the Franconia area when he spotted a young woman matching Murray's description hurrying east on Route 112, about an hour after her accident.[/color] The Bradley Hill Road exit, off 112 coming from 116 Franconia is further down the road than 5 miles from the accident scene if you were traveling on the 112, as originally determined by Earl, MMM forum. 4-5 miles places the siting near the Whicherville Road. An hour after the accident places the CW worker at 2026 thereaouts,(calculated by Faith Westmans' report of the accident occuring at 1927 and he left Franconia at 1900. Wonder where he went inbetween the time he left work and saw the person on the 112?!(1 1/2 hours) This would place him coming home via 112 and if he went directly home he would arrive at approximately 1935? We will find no answers to this question here, but hopefully the police have investigated this matter throughly. |
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No, someone was ACCUSED of forwarding a PM to one of the PIs. The accused thoroughly denies it. So the verity of that statement is in question. Also, to concur with BF, I have not had any spyware arrive from parts unknown. |
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Hello- It is my belief that Billy was
her current and serious boyfriend. Did she have any best friends (women) at U. of Mass. that may know something. |
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Why do you presume he's not? |
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“beauty ~ nature ~ the roar” Joined: Jun 12, 2008 Comments: 643 |
Judged: 2 2 1 "If the Murray family has revealed everything it knows about Maura's private life, warts and all, to law enforcement then none of us has a right to gripe about the veil of secrecy. But, if LE also has been denied information, then I can only conclude that the desire to maintain the All American Girl image is far more important to her family than solving her disappearance." Has the Murray family engaged or contracted for your professional services? Is the Murray family obligated to provide you and a self-appointed team of strangers with personal information about their daughter? Are they obligated to reveal the extent of their exchange of information with law enforcement...to your satisfaction? Are you not here by your own free will and generosity? Are there strings attached? You have no right to gripe under any circumstances...Maura is not your daughter. Judging and criticizing a grieving family is uncalled for, IMHO. |
Judged: 2 1 1 if he is, i wish him the best. something seems off with the whole thing. too many unanswered questions and too much disinterest in those unanswered questions. |
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