Where is MAURA MURRAY

This is the beginning of a multiple post explaining why I don't believe Maura was murdered. It's in addition to my message #12286, at p. 610.

The most probable explanations for Maura's disappearance are she committed suicide or she started a new life. I don't believe we have enough evidence to choose between these alternative explanations because we lack sufficient evidence of her intent and state of mind when she left Amherst. The rest of my post was a convoluted argument leading to an unstated conclusion that she likely was not a victim of foul play, but if she was, the most probable explanation would have been a road rage encounter rather than a random encounter with Joe the Serial Killer.

I basically backed into the road rage idea after I asked myself what might have happened, if the time between the accident and the W's call to 911 were shortened down to less than five minutes. This would allow for the possibility of someone, whether friend or foe, following her with the SBD between them because the SBD is the first vehicle to arrive at the scene after the accident. I don't believe it's possible that anyone was following her if the accident happened a few minutes after 7 as the Ws claim because such a person would have been 30 minutes behind Maura.

Part 2

Now, if we look at the category of people who might have been following Maura, we have two potential subsets. One is a person she knows from Amherst and the other is a person from the Haverhill area.

Amherst Connection

If this hypothetical person was an Amherst connection, he likely would have been right behind her when she turned E/B onto Rte 112. If he had been following her from Amherst but lagging behind, he would have caught-up to her when she stopped for gas. If he arranged to meet her somewhere along the way, the meeting place likely would have been a gas station. We know she stopped for gas somewhere within a few miles of the accident site because the tank was full when the accident happened. Therefore, when she turns onto Rte 112, he should be close behind her and it's not likely that the SBD would have turned onto Rte 112 into a position between them.

If this hypothetical person was coming from eastern MA or NH (given the call to her cell phone from the vicinity of the Londonderry Tower) they likely would have agreed to meet at some location in the vicinity of North Woodstock or Lincoln since she was driving in that direction E/B on Rte 112 and he was driving N/B on I-93. If they had agreed to meet somewhere in the western part of MA or NH so that he could follow her and provide assistance if the cranky Saturn broke down, they would have agreed to meet in Amherst before the trip started, or in White River Junction where I-89 and I-91 hook-up. He would have been right behind her when she turned onto Rte 112. I don't believe this hypothetical person would have approached by driving WB on Rte 112.

Bottom Line: The person who picked-up Maura was not from Amherst because no one followed her from Amherst.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree Shack and I am appalled at the cruel and unfounded remarks being made about Maura's family.

Elsewhere can you say will all honesty that you don't remember the conversation about that comment made by the sister? If I remember correctly there was quite a bit of chat about it.
You have no idea what appalling, cruel and unfounded remarks are until you have lived anywhere near Maura's accident.
Oh wait, you would have an idea since you were one of the ones that were spouting the cruel and unfounded remarks. The keeper of the ducks has the longest list of the disturbing and disgusting names that the locals were called though. She's won the prize for the most hateful.

Part 3

Haverhill Connection

Only two scenarios support a theory that someone from Haverhill might have followed Maura and picked her up at the scene of the accident after the SBD left. The first is someone followed her from the gas station and the other is the PIs previous accident theory.

The first scenario is as unlikely as someone from Amherst picking her up because both scenarios lack a satisfactory explanation for the presence of the school bus between them.

The second scenario is problematic for several reasons.

First, we have no evidence confirming the information Anne heard on the radio at 7 pm regarding an accident on Swiftwater Road, or in the vicinity of Swiftwater in which the female driver left in a POV. No one saw a wrecked car in that area except for the accident on Rte 112 halfway between the Weathered Barn and the Bradley Hill Road intersection. Since Maura did not leave the accident scene and get into a vehicle until after the SBD left the scene aroun 7:40 pm, this accident could not have been the accident Anne heard about.

Second, there was insufficient time for a previous accident if Maura left Amherst at 4 pm, which is about as early as she could have left since she used the ATM machine at 3:40 pm and still had to stop at the liquor store and pick-up the accident forms. It would have taken her about 3.5 hours to reach the Weathered Barn with the Saturn only running on 3 cylinders and the stop to fill-up the gas tank en route. The PI theory requires a second vehicle, either causing the damage to the hood or forcing her off the road into a collision with some as yet undetermined object that caused that damage, and a female Maura lookalike to take her place behind the wheel of the Saturn after the man subdues Maura. He helps the Maura lookalike get the Saturn out of the ditch and back on the road and then she follows him or he follows her until she loses control of the Saturn after passing the Weathered Barn and dumps it into the snowbank. I don't believe a complicated scenario like this could have happened in the little time available. I also don't believe it's very likely that Joe the Serial Rapist/Killer found true love with Joyce the Serial Rapist/Killer, a willing female accomplice and Maura lookalike for his adventurous lifestyle.

Third, I can't imagine why this dastardly couple would risk capture by attempting to ditch the basically undriveable Saturn at another site. Better to abandon it and flee the area, particularly with Maura in their vehicle.

Fourth, I believe Joyce the Serial Rapist/Killer would have immediately fled the scene of the accident rather than remain and risk capture by a police officer responding to the scene. With Joe right behind her, she would have jumped into his vehicle and they would have left the area ASAP before the SBD arrived. I don't see Joe showing up after the SBD arrived.

Fifth, getting the Saturn out of the ditch at the scene of this hypothetical first accident may have required a tow truck. I doubt the car was operable at night with the headlights askew, so Joe and Joyce may have had to tow it. Maybe that's the type of vehicle Joe and Joyce were in, but if not, another accomplice is required to pull off this caper. Could this have been Boris, Joe's younger brother, following in Joe's footsteps.?

Sixth, the Ws and the SBD didn't report seeing another vehicle at or near crash site.

Part 4

It may have been possible for Maura to have rear ended a parked and unattended vehicle such as a 4x4 pickup as she was leaving the gas station and this might have caused the damage to the hood. If this happened, she may have left the scene without attempting to locate the owner or leave a note. Maybe the owner saw the accident from some distance away and attempted to follow her. Maybe she tried to ditch him by turning off onto Rte 112. Maybe she crashed the Saturn because she was in a hurry and couldn't see the road well enough wit the headlights askew. Maybe he was too far behind her to see her turn off on Rte 112 and he continued driving on Rte 302 for several miles until he realized she wasn't ahead of him. Maybe he doubled back and decided to check Rte 112. Maybe he was driving the curious red pickup Robinson Ordway saw. Maybe he arrived at the accident scene as the SBD was leaving. Maybe he grabbed her at that point.

This is a very speculative possibility, but this is the scenario to which I was referring when I started the new road rage topic. However, as speculative as it is, I believe it is far more likely than the PI's theory, which has too many moving parts.

Both theories stem from a belief that the damage to the hood could not have been caused by the accident between the Weathered Barn and the Bradley Hill Road intersection. If a previous accident caused that damage, an assumption was made that it must have happened within a few miles because the skewed headlight beams would not have illuminated the road making the car virtually undriveable at night. But we do not know for certain that there was a previous accident and, since the cops don't believe there was, maybe they're right.

I have a sneaking suspicion that there was no previous accident.

Part 5

Murder, Suicide, or Started a New Life

I now believe that that the person who picked her up was a stranger. I doubt this person was a bad guy with rape and murder in mind because of the vanishingly small chance that such a person would have appeared at just the right time and place to pick her up. This person probably gave her a ride to someplace she asked to go. He may even have put her up for the night and then driven her to her chosen destination. This obliging person may have been a woman and maybe Maura shared her story with this man or woman. Maybe it was a couple. Maybe he, she, or they helped her get started in a new life, or maybe they dropped her off at a truck stop where she hitched another ride. Maybe Maura killed herself. Maybe she didn't.

I think the probabilities favor suicide or starting a new life and I believe that the person or persons who gave her a ride that night decided to remain silent to help her get away and to protect their own privacy from a police investigation and probable notoriety as this case unfolded in the local and national media.

Part 6

Maybe the SBD saw the vehicle that Maura entered; maybe he didn't.

Maybe he recognized the driver; maybe he didn't.

We know he has provided some conflicting statements, but we don't know why.

His conflicting statements don't prove he's an accessory to murder. LE should do everything it can to clear this up.

In the meantime, I'm going to turn my focus back to Amherst to determine, if possible, Maura's intent and state of mind when she left.

truth wrote:

Also, the night of the distrubing phone call it was reported thet Marua was escorted to her dorm room by her supervisor. If she left some time after to sleep elsewhere wouldnt the main door record her leaving?

!! That it would. I don't think her supervisor actually escorted her, though. I know she wanted to, but Maura said that her roommate was there and she'd be ok. Of course there WAS no roommate, but the door key-card swipey thing would have to report whether she showed up, wouldn't it.

Good catch.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
No member of her family even accompanied her back to school. Fred Murray drove the Saturn to somewhere within 100 miles of Amherst. He called AAA and had them hook-up the Saturn and tow it to the parking lot at Kennedy Hall. Maura rode in the tow truck. Fred Murray drove home.
He exerted quite an effort to help her commute to her clinicals by providing her with a mechanically unsound vehicle that she was afraid to drive. But then she probably didn't need one since the clinical in Norwood was only 100 miles each way.
He also made quite an effort to help her move back to campus after the long break. Bridgeport is 104 miles from Amherst and there was no tow fee for a tow less than 100 miles. So, he took some time out of his terribly busy schedule to drive to a drop-off place.
Of course, he did buy himself a new car so he had expenses.
What a great dad!

My. How helpful. And how accurate.

Not.

Do you know for a FACT that Fred didn't accompany Maura to school? That she rode in the tow truck and he went home? If so, where did you come across this alleged fact? Or are you just out there bashing Fred for no apparent reason with statements that have absolutely no truth to them whatsoever?

The reason the car went back to campus at all was so they could use it for some sort of trade in; they made plans to go car shopping, which they did the weekend she disappeared. My recollection is that Maura rode WITH FRED IN THE COROLLA back to campus, piggy-backing the tow truck. That is what I recall hearing from Helena.

IN THE MEANTIME, Maura was getting a ride from someone else to Norwood.

FRED WAS DOING EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO ARRANGE FOR NEW AND SAFE TRANSPORTATION FOR HIS DAUGHTER. To say anything otherwise is absolutely ridiculous. He did more than most parents would probably do. Most parents would probably just leave her old car sitting in the driveway. Fred went to the extra trouble of getting it back to campus so that it could either be repaired or traded in.

Where is this other ridiculous business coming from, Mason? I mean, other than your extremely vivid imagination.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
My. How helpful. And how accurate.
Not.
Do you know for a FACT that Fred didn't accompany Maura to school? That she rode in the tow truck and he went home? If so, where did you come across this alleged fact? Or are you just out there bashing Fred for no apparent reason with statements that have absolutely no truth to them whatsoever?
The reason the car went back to campus at all was so they could use it for some sort of trade in; they made plans to go car shopping, which they did the weekend she disappeared. My recollection is that Maura rode WITH FRED IN THE COROLLA back to campus, piggy-backing the tow truck. That is what I recall hearing from Helena.
IN THE MEANTIME, Maura was getting a ride from someone else to Norwood.
FRED WAS DOING EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO ARRANGE FOR NEW AND SAFE TRANSPORTATION FOR HIS DAUGHTER. To say anything otherwise is absolutely ridiculous. He did more than most parents would probably do. Most parents would probably just leave her old car sitting in the driveway. Fred went to the extra trouble of getting it back to campus so that it could either be repaired or traded in.
Where is this other ridiculous business coming from, Mason? I mean, other than your extremely vivid imagination.

Hi FireCat,

So, was the car not drivable? Is that why it was towed to the school for a trade in? If it was not direvable then why would she take it for a trip up North... unless it was repaired.

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
You've been hanging out with those attack ducks way too long. I see no attack here.
The locals being bashed will never stop until either Maura is found and brought home alive or her body is found and the person caught.
Nothing is ever said by you Anne or any of the "team" when someone is accusing the locals of having something to do with Maura's disappearance even though there isn't a lick of evidence that they are guilty of anything.
If anything is said about Amherst or the family is mentioned in not the best of light the person that said it is chewed up and spit out by several of you.
Carefully orchestrated barrage???? You're giving us(whoever us is?) far too much credit.

Wowzer I have posted in the past here at topix and the former MMM forum good things about the locals.

My understanding is that it was running on 3 cylinders. Theoretically drivable, but not reliably so and not for long distances. Which, yes, makes it really strange that she drove it to NH.

As for trading it in vs. repairing it, my guess is that it was one of those instances where the car was nearing the end of its useful life and wasn't worth the price of repairs needed (which may have been coming more frequently as it aged).

I honestly don't know if they towed it rather than piggy-back drove it because they worried it wouldn't make the 100+ mile trip to Amherst, or because with AAA it was simply so much easier to tow it.

I *do* know that, true to the nature of a loving father, Fred drove the clunker while Maura drove the Saturn until they reached the tow point.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>Wowzer I have posted in the past here at topix and the former MMM forum good things about the locals.

Of course you have. Many times. I've seen them. But many people have selective memory about these sorts of things.

I was particularly amused by the alleged 95% bash rate of locals. Mmm-hmm. You bet.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>Wowzer I have posted in the past here at topix and the former MMM forum good things about the locals.

Citigirl you know, I know and they know who did the bashing and said all the nasty things. I don't remember ever saying that you said anything bad but no one jumped in to defend the locals either when they were being hung up to dry. No one.
This crap is not helping to find Maura.

Was Maura Murray born in a hospital?

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
but no one jumped in to defend the locals either when they were being hung up to dry. No one.

Not one single person?

FireCat wrote:

I *do* know that, true to the nature of a loving father, Fred drove the clunker while Maura drove the Saturn until they reached the tow point.

I thought the Saturn was the clunker.

yankee wrote:

<quoted text>
I thought the Saturn was the clunker.

You thought right. Maura drove the Toyota. Sorry--I misspoke. It's been a very long, awful day for me and my head is not attached as firmly as it perhaps ought to be.

Thanks for catching that and setting me right.

I have been looking into the Maura Murray case and have found some interesting information. I have been reading your posts wondering if I would be able to find some insight from other in areas I might have overlooked. After reading what I have read, I am sure I have covered any and all of the important avenues necessary to finally provide closure on this situation. I optimistic that I will be able to accomplish this by years end.

Just to inform you, she did not take her own life or start a new life over someplace. Thoughtless and unfounded statements like those just serve to hurt those she loves and who love her. AM

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
I asked the same question awhile ago when I was assuming that UMass would provide bus transportation for students required to go to off-campus locations for clinical experience. I haven't researched the issue, but I've taught torts and the legal analysis would likely be as follows.
The first question is to determine whether a university has a duty to exercise reasonable care to prevent its students from being harmed by others. I think the answer is yes.
The next question is to determine the scope of that duty. The scope likely will depend on the foreseeability of harm, that is, it reasonably foreseeable that a student might be injured commuting off campus in their own vehicle to attend clinical programs? This is an interesting question because unlike other clinical programs, nurses commute farther, work longer hours, and are exposed to emotionally traumatic circumstances like the ones Peri described. One also must consider road conditions that might be expected during a typical New England winter. Elevated physical and emotional exhaustion appear to substantially increase the general risk of harm to nursing students compared to other students. I was shocked to learn that Maura had a 200 mile commute to Norwood and I didn't believe that any school would require a student to travel that far to a clinical.
The next question is whether the university did something or failed to do something it should have done and that failure proximately caused the injury to the student. One could take the position that the scope of liability should not extend beyond the driver or driver's involved. Thus, if a nurse driving back to UMass from Norwood falls asleep at the wheel and loses her life in a one vehicle crash, she caused the accident and no liability should attach to the university. The legal test is called the but for test. Can one say that but for the university's failure to provide transportation for its student, the student would not have been injured? Shouldn't the student's own negligence cut-off liability for the university?
The law of torts is policy driven and liability concepts expand over time even if the legal rules remain the same. This is why torts is usually the most popular class in law school and professors love it because it's a blast to teach because it requires students to think. No one passes torts by just memorizing the rules.
I can see an argument for imposing liability on the university because auto accidents are reasonably foreseeable, particularly for nursing students, even if the causation issue favors not imposing liability.
Would a signed disclaimer absolve the university of liability? Probably not because it might be void as as a matter of public policy since the student is required to take the course and must sign the disclaimer or be prohibited from taking the course.
Sooner or later an accident will happen and the school will be sued. Will a judge permit the case to go to jury trial, or will the judge rule as a matter of law that the university cannot be held liable due to lack of causation? If the latter, will an appellate court reverse?
You be the judge.

Mason, Quija: I can scarcely recall, but if my memory serves me correctly, while at University each and every one of us were given a life insurance policy as part of our tuition, loss of life and limb and injury sort of thing, this was in a Home Economics programme, but every one received this, also while we were student teaching there was an additional policy, through the Dept of Education as we were teaching schools, we could attend were we wished, and many women went to their home town, often vast distances from the University, although all within Nova Scotia. All expenses were paid for by the students.
con't