Where is MAURA MURRAY

Part Two

It's rather absurd for the PI's to say that these inquiries are not important when anyone with half a brain knows otherwise. It is a blantant attempt to detract inquiry. What's the pupose of this forum, if not to find Maura Murray? I'm not saying that anyone on this forum has a snowball's chance in hell of finding her, but why all the inconsistency? In my mind, someone like Mason or Alden will probably find Maura or who ever is responsible for her dissappearance before Weeper or Columbo. Anyone with half a brain here can see something is not right. Just go back and read all the posts on this thread and see for yourself.
Snowy, you are going to have to accept that not eveyone who posts or lurks on this site trusts the PI's, LE's, or family. The proof is in the pudding. You can read it in between the lines with certain posters, and the way the conversation is angled. The reason for this is that anyone with even the slightest analytical mind can see how conversation on this forum is controlled. The posters here often get frustrated with the impenetrability and stop posting. I'm guessing that many of us, like myself, feel very compassionate towards Maura because we have also been victims or no someone who has been a victim of injustice. We know how secrets can play a part in this. So before going into a "right to privacy" tirade, just think about how much injustice has been done in the world because of coverup and secrets. We know for whatever reason that PI's, LE's, etc., have problems doing their jobs when their objectivity is compromised. I don't doubt for a minute that there are posters on this board who know more than they are letting on, and participating in the cover up through their very clever detraction tactics. Like you, when I see something going on here that I don't like, I'm going to speak up. So your just gonna have to live with it.

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
Sara:
eye witnesses are notorious for being WRONG! Fred is not lying, there is no reason for him to lie, he wants more than anything in the world to find Maura.

Is this fact or speculation? There is no way you could know this as a fact.

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
Maura had not drove the truth for several months.

I think a lot of people on this forum have problems driving the truth.

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
Sara:
eye witnesses are notorious for being WRONG! Fred is not lying, there is no reason for him to lie, he wants more than anything in the world to find Maura. He will never rest until Maura is found or his life is over, then I assume that Maura's other family members will continue, there are those here on this board and elsewhere who will never give it up until answers are found, not that we necessarily have to know the answers but that law enforcement brings this matter to justice, My guess is that the witness is wrong, perhaps looking for 15 minutes of fame, or he saw her at another time, say Saturday, or perhaps Monday.
Perhaps he/she could step up to the plate and enlighten us, or perhaps law enforcement might check out his statement again, or perhaps check out the person's background, and/or give them a polygraph.

Yes, I understand that, but seems the witnesses that saw the Saturn @ weathered barn were questioned over and over and over and over again because they all had different accounts of what happened. So it seems logical that this witness should be questioned over and over to get the facts straight. If he was and said okay it was not her, then great, but we still are being told that " a witness saw her on Sunday morning".

whiston wrote:

hi Peripeteia.I know nothing about Maura or anybody else being involved in any sexual assaults or allegations that were made at Westpoint,other than what i have seen in the press.take care philip

Yes, we do not know if Maura was involved in anything of the sort, or even if she knew a friend that this happened to while at Westpoint, but it did go on, as reported on Westpoint site and in the news.

The question was how do you know she was asked to live Westpoint, or is this speculation on your part? This is a serious allegation, and you are the only person I'm aware of that has stated this.

If she was asked to leave Westpoint, this maybe relevant given the timing of the announcement of Rumsfeld the same day as she had a meltdown?

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text>"All clinical attendance is MANDATORY" It still boggles my mind as to why she would give up her position in the program by going up north at the beginning of a week of clinicals......it certainly seems like there is more of an answer in Amherst yet to be discovered.

Moose: Whatever the reason for her meltdown, fatigue, fear, private, it did not necessarily happen in Amherst, perhaps it happened before and she just happened to be in Amherst when it caught up to her, but whatever it was that was happening in her personal life, it was MAJOR STUFF, as she placed herself in a precarious position in regards
to hooking out of clinical under false pretenses.

Sara wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, I understand that, but seems the witnesses that saw the Saturn @ weathered barn were questioned over and over and over and over again because they all had different accounts of what happened. So it seems logical that this witness should be questioned over and over to get the facts straight. If he was and said okay it was not her, then great, but we still are being told that " a witness saw her on Sunday morning".

agree totally Sara, however we know she was not there Sunday morning. A witness also stated they saw her on Monday 3:30 to 4:00 p.m. stated in the press, but no mention of a hockey bag full of beer. If indeed she had a hockey bag full of beer, where did it go? Was the time later on Sunday, and was this beer left overs from the party the night before...

Indeed question this person again by all means and hopefully the police have done this, and is this the same person who reported her in the news on Monday, if so why no mention of the hockey bag full of beer then?

propaganda firetruck wrote:

<quoted text>
Is this fact or speculation? There is no way you could know this as a fact.

fp....only Fred would know this to be fact, but you already knew this as no one knows who is really lying in life other than the liar themselves...

Perhaps Fred should take a lie detector test and have the results posted, seems that is all that will satisfy some on this forum.

Why would he lie, if he didn't want Maura found he would have been silent? He can't hide what he doesn't know? For the little he does know he has had to rely on the PI, his own investigation and file suit against the courts.

Mastermind/prop. firetruck -

In scanning back over several hundred pages, your position is abundantly clear.

Nameless and faceless on the internet, you play the role of a frustrated detective of sorts, demanding information to support your theories and to justify the barrage of accusations hurled against the Fred Murray family. Unfortunately, your theories and opinions are not made any more credible by your name changes.

Mason, too, is committed to "exploring" (by stealing Maura's reputation) in the manner of accusation and dishonor. Together, you partner to blame the victim(s) and play with the lives of human beings.

It is interesting to me that Weeper and Columbo are willing to step up and meet interested parties to advance conversation. I respect that effort.

Everyone has an opinion, but no one can claim the "truth".

Archangel Michael wrote:

I have been looking into the Maura Murray case and have found some interesting information. I have been reading your posts wondering if I would be able to find some insight from other in areas I might have overlooked. After reading what I have read, I am sure I have covered any and all of the important avenues necessary to finally provide closure on this situation. I optimistic that I will be able to accomplish this by years end.
Just to inform you, she did not take her own life or start a new life over someplace. Thoughtless and unfounded statements like those just serve to hurt those she loves and who love her. AM

AM, I presume you are a private detective? I hope you are just not shovelling the *&^% like some here! I hope what you are saying is truth, as the Murray family needs answers and for the madness to cease. I hope this is not a one time stop here or that you are not pulling anyone's leg?

I too do not believe she committed suicide, as the saying goes dead people don't hide their own body. And as far as starting a new life, I have prayed and hoped it is so, as a beautiful light in the world has been snuff out, but I know that is a pipe dream as what we know of Maura she could not hurt those she loves by hiding out somewhere. i.e. Fred, Laurie who is ill, her aging Grandmother, Billy her fiance, Sharon who is like a second Mother, and her friends and other family members. Doesn't make sense. I don't buy the witness protection programme idea either.

I do hope for all those who love Maura what you are saying is true...thanks for the HOPE that justice will be served and too that Maura will be found.

propaganda firetruck wrote:

<quoted text>
Right, and at it has been said that there was as stuffed animal in the car that Maura considered very dear to her. Did she cuddle with the thing? Did she have it since a child? I remember someone saying they thought it would be a better scent object than the gloves. It also seems that person questioned FM's choosing of the gloves as the scent object when this stuffed animal was available.

The monkey was from Billy (it's mentioned on 20/20). Maura slept with it every night.

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
Whiston the question is, how are you sure, did someone tell you this, or are you surmizing because she simply left in the middle of her second year?
Please be specific, as this is vital, considering that several of the men there were latter charged with sexual assaults, and the announcement that a special enquiry was to commence by Rumsfeld. This was announced on Thursday the night Maura was reduced to tears while working as campus security; after receiving a phone call from somewhere on campus?
Thanks

Peri, he said the first time he answered you he doesn't know, only that he could confirm it as fact. I understand you want to confirm it as fact with evidence, but as we all argue here time and time again, if someone can't confirm why they know something or why something happened (only that it did) they simply can't.

As philip himself will tell you I'm sure, asking again and again when the answer isn't known isn't going to produce the answer.....

hi Peripeteia and all,I have 2 people who i completely trust telling me Maura was asked to leave Westpoint.I dont see it as an allegation as this would suggest she did something wrong,I see it as a fact.Just as i am told Maura attended Umass Amherst I accept it as true.take care philip

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
agree totally Sara, however we know she was not there Sunday morning. A witness also stated they saw her on Monday 3:30 to 4:00 p.m. stated in the press, but no mention of a hockey bag full of beer. If indeed she had a hockey bag full of beer, where did it go? Was the time later on Sunday, and was this beer left overs from the party the night before...
Indeed question this person again by all means and hopefully the police have done this, and is this the same person who reported her in the news on Monday, if so why no mention of the hockey bag full of beer then?

I seem to recall that Maura had to be at work at the gallery at 2pm. This is based on complete and utter recollection, though, and is not necessarily fact until someone can confirm this from previous posts. When did she leave work Sunday night? Anyone know?

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
agree totally Sara, however we know she was not there Sunday morning. A witness also stated they saw her on Monday 3:30 to 4:00 p.m. stated in the press, but no mention of a hockey bag full of beer. If indeed she had a hockey bag full of beer, where did it go? Was the time later on Sunday, and was this beer left overs from the party the night before...
Indeed question this person again by all means and hopefully the police have done this, and is this the same person who reported her in the news on Monday, if so why no mention of the hockey bag full of beer then?

Being that nobody is saying " that witness was wrong", then one has to assume that the police have either not checked into it, or that the witness is standing by his story. It is not rocket science, either he saw her or he did not.
Also, why are the names of the NH witnesses plastered all over the media articles, yet no mention of any witness names from Amherst. I think it strange, but maybe there is a logical explanation. Anyone have an explanation?

hi all ,If we were allowed to know which gallery Maura worked at we would know what hours she could have worked and fill in some of her last weekend in Amherst.Also if we knew which ATM she used it might show which way she left town and if she used her own bank.Some of the galleries were only open from 2to 5 pm.Some opened at noon.I assume that at some point mrMurray and maybe Maura went to the toyota to look at the damage and pickup personal items, glasses ,paperwork etc. from the car.I also assume that if mrMurray was speaking with his insurance company on sunday a.m. he would need a V.I.N. number and maybe other documents from the car.Did the beer cans come from the car , i dont' know.Was Maura going to or from Kennedy Hall when she was seen with the bag of cans. Maura did not tell Sara Alfieri that she had bent the toyota just hours before she got her cell phone back.Did she go back to Kennedy hall and decide to return beer cans? too weird..take care philip

whiston wrote:

hi Peripeteia and all,I have 2 people who i completely trust telling me Maura was asked to leave Westpoint.I dont see it as an allegation as this would suggest she did something wrong,I see it as a fact.Just as i am told Maura attended Umass Amherst I accept it as true.take care philip

Thank you Phillip, you have said 2 people told you Maura was asked to leave Westpoint. Of course she might not have done something wrong, simply she was not cut out for being in the military, I understand this completely.(born to 5 generations of military) No problem there to see a personal conflict.

I never caught before that you said two people told you this, sorry if you said this and I didn't hear or read you correctly, I thought you were referring to you knew nothing about the sexually allegations misconduct of West Point graduates.

If you trust these sources and they have first hand knowledge then I will accept this to be true.

Maura being asked to leave before coming to the decision herself, it must have been an emotional blow. Billy did say, I believe stated by Helena or Sharon that Maura felt she was not cut out to be in the military. Military is not the life for everyone.

I wonder though, Nursing is very similar to the military, at least in a hospital setting we take orders and follow rules, and Maura's dissatisfaction with the military makes me wonder if she was planning on changing majors, or needed a rest from school to digest what she had gotten herself into.

It might be of interest to know if Maura was having problems in her clinicals, again nothing to do with Maura's performance, just a matter of following rules and regulations. Perhaps, a deja vous of being in the military.

Often in Nursing we are obligated to follow Doctor's orders or what a family demands that we disagree with, or conflict us morally, and you have no say. Sometimes decisions made by others can be perplexing or differ from your own moral code.

If this be the case and Maura was having an existential moment and saying to herself what in the hell have I gotten myself into now and having to start all over again, or having to quit something else, might have thrown Maura into a place emotionally that was uncomfortable or caused her to question the status quo and needed to reconsider her choices.

i.e. looking after a child who the doctor or family ordered them to stop being fed, turn off IV's, stop medication. Or a family refusing to have their child treated for some moral reason?

This theory does not preclude any affect the announcement that Rumsfeld made regarding an enquiry into the sexual assaults by West Point graduates or on West Point graduates made Feb. 09th.

Perhaps there were a whole lot of things on Maura's mind, however, I see her trip to the North as a desperate move to get far away from the madding crowd. Whether motivated by fear of someone, something very private only she knew, needing to regroup and consider choices the fact that Maura got in an unreliable car, an inexperienced driver in winter and allegedly drinking and driving, hooking off clinicals and lying, says that whatever was bothering her was HUGH.

Perhaps to find out what happened to Maura it is not important to know this, however she had plenty likely on her mind, and she had to be very TIRED, and unless their is reason to suspect that someone was following her, which we have not been able to determine, then this still brings us back to the accident scene, and then to the first accident scene in Haverhill and what happened there. This is only my opinion.
thanks again phillip, kate

I am confused about the witnesses from Amherst. Was the person that claimed to see her on Sunday morning the one who said she had a bag of beer cans, or was that the witness that saw her on Monday @ 4:00pm?

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
AM, I presume you are a private detective? I hope you are just not shovelling the *&^% like some here! I hope what you are saying is truth, as the Murray family needs answers and for the madness to cease. I hope this is not a one time stop here or that you are not pulling anyone's leg?
I too do not believe she committed suicide, as the saying goes dead people don't hide their own body. And as far as starting a new life, I have prayed and hoped it is so, as a beautiful light in the world has been snuff out, but I know that is a pipe dream as what we know of Maura she could not hurt those she loves by hiding out somewhere. i.e. Fred, Laurie who is ill, her aging Grandmother, Billy her fiance, Sharon who is like a second Mother, and her friends and other family members. Doesn't make sense. I don't buy the witness protection programme idea either.
I do hope for all those who love Maura what you are saying is true...thanks for the HOPE that justice will be served and too that Maura will be found.

Hello Peri,

Let us not forget that there are certain forms of mostly stress-induced states of amnesia which may have devastating effects in at least temporarily wiping out the memory of one´s previous life. This state, if serious, could go on for years if help is not being found.

Just worth remembering in this context.

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
AM, I presume you are a private detective? I hope you are just not shovelling the *&^% like some here! I hope what you are saying is truth, as the Murray family needs answers and for the madness to cease. I hope this is not a one time stop here or that you are not pulling anyone's leg?
I too do not believe she committed suicide, as the saying goes dead people don't hide their own body. And as far as starting a new life, I have prayed and hoped it is so, as a beautiful light in the world has been snuff out, but I know that is a pipe dream as what we know of Maura she could not hurt those she loves by hiding out somewhere. i.e. Fred, Laurie who is ill, her aging Grandmother, Billy her fiance, Sharon who is like a second Mother, and her friends and other family members. Doesn't make sense. I don't buy the witness protection programme idea either.
I do hope for all those who love Maura what you are saying is true...thanks for the HOPE that justice will be served and too that Maura will be found.

Absolutely.
Amen