Where is MAURA MURRAY

Advocator wrote:

BBart -- this link should take you to photos of the Saturn as well as accident report:
http://www.mauramurraymissing.com/Documents.h...
<quoted text>

Thank you.

hi all how long was the car at lavoies and why this is a big mystery. i have called there at least4 time s the last time Mike was going to call me back and i have not heard word one.the other thing is, if we can find out when it was taken from Lavoies awe might know why it was left in a fiel.i am thinking if it was winter that field with the saturn in it is deep in snow or very wet so why leave it there and there are no other vvehicles around it did Lavoies tow it herewho told them to tow it here was it towed somewhere else first and then towed here.and was it left out in the open to seewho approached it. take care philip

Detective Columbo wrote:

Mauras car never hit any trees, I can assure this. In my opiniopn Her car was placed there for a reason. I don't mean by maura, but by someone else....STAGED SCENE.
Columbo

Way to judge, people, way to judge. Can you find it in yourselves to believe for a half a second that perhaps the man knows of what he speaks?

One thing much discussed elsewhere was the fact that the jurisdiction line wobbles back and forth across 112, and Maura's accident was conveniently in a certain jurisdiction by mere yards, practically.....

Why is what Columbo says not possible? Even as a theory?(to say nothing of the evidence that points to this, which has not been made public, but PIs assure us is the case?) How is it that we can believe Maura drove to NH to find an isolated snowbank to crawl under a bush and drink herself to hypothermia and then death, or saw a drug deal gone bad, or etc., but cannot believe that the scene at the Weathered Barn was staged? Lord knows OH MY has been talking enough about the corruptness and weirdness of HPD up there.

whiston wrote:

was it left out in the open to seewho approached it. take care philip

Almost certainly. Ditto online discussion boards.

Whiston, I tried to find any notes that I had regarding the length of time that the Saturn stayed at Lavoies.
The following is only from my faint memory. I believe the car was still there when I started to write on the First Maura Forum, in the Spring of '05. One of the reasons that I believe this is, that a new Poster came to the Forum and said he was a college student, of some kind of media. He said he was going to go there and view the car. The Poster didn't stay long with the Forum. Another reason for remembering is of another short term local Poster..a young female who PM'd me who wrote that she was afraid, "because I'm Maura's age".
(She and I shared knowledge of a few locals) She wrote only a few times.
Again, I say this is from my dusty memory. Silky, Anne, Mcsmom (can't remember who else..maybe Paris..?)
were already old timers on that First Forum. Perhaps someone with notes or a better search of information could be more exact than I.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
Way to judge, people, way to judge. Can you find it in yourselves to believe for a half a second that perhaps the man knows of what he speaks?
One thing much discussed elsewhere was the fact that the jurisdiction line wobbles back and forth across 112, and Maura's accident was conveniently in a certain jurisdiction by mere yards, practically.....
Why is what Columbo says not possible? Even as a theory?(to say nothing of the evidence that points to this, which has not been made public, but PIs assure us is the case?) How is it that we can believe Maura drove to NH to find an isolated snowbank to crawl under a bush and drink herself to hypothermia and then death, or saw a drug deal gone bad, or etc., but cannot believe that the scene at the Weathered Barn was staged? Lord knows OH MY has been talking enough about the corruptness and weirdness of HPD up there.

I had exactly the same question. I know Det C no better than I know you. It sounds like he is making an assertion not stating a theory that sounds on its face a little ridiculous. Even if he is a detective could he tell us anything that would allow us to believe this line of thinking?

J

Just a statement...not even close to disagreeing or arguing...just a fact. Det.C and consort were with and assisting the Murray's long before the First Forum started in Nov. 2004. They did/do a lot of leg work, and are still hanging in there.
I give 'em "A" for effort.....
No, I don't know them.

I don't know that Columbo can/should do so. A professional accident reconstructionist stated such. I don't know the exact details of why have been laid out. It was adamantly stated the damage to the Saturn did not occur where the Saturn was found. Correct me Columbo if I am wrong. I don't have access to the exact wording and want to be sure I am correct in my assertion.
Jefferson, I understand your questioning this theory. Although it is from trained professionals skilled in reconstructing accidents, it is theory. Details are helpful, but all cards on the table may not be.

hi Shack an all.if the saturn was a crime scene why was it taken to Lavoies .i have always assumed at lavoies it was not secure maybe i am wrong .anyone know what is normal when a vehicle is a crime scene.this whole thing is odd.the search warrant sealed the car i assume but it has been repoprted that sgt Smith was not at the search after he requested the warrant.maybe the saturn got some late night visitors to remove something or clean it up.still a mystery who towed and left it in a field .why is the saturn alone in the field.is ther a camera watching that field if it is regularly used for vehicle storage.did mrMurray want the car crushed or is this rumour.it sounds like at some point someone bought bulbs for the saturn and the empty bulb boxes were found in the car.i have never heard if the lights were working but askew when Billy Rausch and mrMurray checked the car.when mrMrray and Billy arrived in NH on tues feb 10 04 they were not allowed to see the car until the next day . why.maybe the car was not at Lavoies when they asked to see it.take care philip

Watching wrote:

I don't know that Columbo can/should do so. A professional accident reconstructionist stated such. I don't know the exact details of why have been laid out. It was adamantly stated the damage to the Saturn did not occur where the Saturn was found. Correct me Columbo if I am wrong. I don't have access to the exact wording and want to be sure I am correct in my assertion.
Jefferson, I understand your questioning this theory. Although it is from trained professionals skilled in reconstructing accidents, it is theory. Details are helpful, but all cards on the table may not be.

I don't have access to that info either, with the old site down. But I did also read this from an accident reconstructionist. Jefferson, you ARE right to want to know evidence or theories....I was just wondering why it was automatically assumed that this was "nuts" when a lot of what else gets said here is at least as far out, and gets accepted as fact.

Watching wrote:

I don't know that Columbo can/should do so. A professional accident reconstructionist stated such. I don't know the exact details of why have been laid out. It was adamantly stated the damage to the Saturn did not occur where the Saturn was found. Correct me Columbo if I am wrong. I don't have access to the exact wording and want to be sure I am correct in my assertion.
Jefferson, I understand your questioning this theory. Although it is from trained professionals skilled in reconstructing accidents, it is theory. Details are helpful, but all cards on the table may not be.

What did the professional accident reconstructionist find when they looked at the car? What did they find for information about the airbags and did they deploy at the MMM site?

Whiston,
I believe Fred signed the vehicle over to Lavoie's in lieu of towing charges. Although this is purely my opinion I do not believe anyone fully understood the magnitude of Maura's case at that particular point in time.

Watching,
You asked when NHSP got involved in the case. I read a direct statement somewhere, tried to go back and retrieve it, that NHSP were actively involved within 72 hours.

This is somewhat off topic but important information..........

In 2005 a Missing Adults Law was adopted in NH.
The law requires that LE file a report and submit the missing person's info to the National Database within 72 hours.

This is one set protocol for every aspect of LE throughout the state of New Hampshire.

I also read that there have been recent demands for an updated computer system/sex offender registry in the state of New Hampshire.

Down here in North Carolina

- Every person who applies for a drivers license has his/her ss# run through the National Sex Offender Database.

- Anyone with prior sex offenses are required to register on the spot and contact the Sheriff's Dept within 10 days or a warrant is issued for his/her arrest.

- Sex offenders are also required to remain on probation 5 years after his/her release from incarceration - 1st offense. Newcomers are placed under probation whether or not they were required to in other states.

- During the five year probation period they are required to attend weekly classes. This is moreso a form of weekly monitoring in my opinion.

- Sex offenders names, photographs, and offenses are made public in the computer registry for a ten year period.

- If the offender repeats an offense they automtically fall under 'Jessica's Law'.

- Sex offenders are prohibited from residing in households with children (Re: Tina & Bethany Sinclair case) and from residing in homes that are within 1000 feet of schools, parks, etc.
These are just a few restrictions/laws off the top of my head that NH currently does not exercise.

I'm a property owner/taxpayer in Vermont and have had a number of people who work in the field (DOC) here in NC openly state how disturbed they are by VT's laxness of attitude toward these types of offenders.

Given that Vermont sits hip to shoulder to with NH the latter seemed worth noting.

OH MY wrote:

<quoted text>
What did the professional accident reconstructionist find when they looked at the car? What did they find for information about the airbags and did they deploy at the MMM site?

I don't have those answers. They have not been made public.
There was another car expert on the forum for a time and he too agreed the damage was not done by trees or snowbank, but without him seeing the vehicle in person, it was impossible for him to properly evaluate the spider crack, what exactly caused the damage, so forth.
Having a number experts view the car would have helped all around, but that's not how NH LE does things. I don't think anyone knows anything about where the car is, or if it has been scrapped by now.

elsewherebriefly, Thank you for that information the lack of restraints on convicted sex abusers in VT/NH certainly contributes toward the influx of people involved in these areas of abuse. I am sure that many convicted sex offenders know the relative laws of our states.

I wonder if they found paint transfer, lack of debris at the accident site, etc to conclude the accident happened elsewhere. I don't know, but those facts would indicate this. Also, regular police officers are not skilled in this way, so Smith would not have necessarily been able to look at the damage and note this, although it should have been evident if the car actually hit a tree. If the snowbanks were in the way, I don't know how he could have thought the trees caused the damage.
I was in an accident w/ another car and the police reviewed the tire marks to see who actually skidded out, but in an assumed one-car accident, I don't think they would think to do so. Those tire marks in the snow he noted could have come from another car that pulled out from there, but I don't know if there was a small area plowed there by one of the neighbors for their mailbox, etc. If the car didn't jump the snowbank, what accounts for tire marks where they are noted in the report? A small plowed out area w/ tire marks from anyones vehicle is my guess.

One more thing. The witnesses reported to hear an acceleration, then a thud. Would you notice a car's acceleration mid-winter inside your home? It would have to be severe or a larger engine than the Saturn w/ storm windows down, maybe TV on in the house. Why accelerate around that corner in the winter?

Here's a good reason the Saturn was facing west in the east bound lane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Here's another video showing a similar pickup. This one punctures the tires.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

just me wrote:

<quoted text>Can you post the source of this, I was always led to believe EMTs were turned away and not allowed near the car. If this is true it changes things for me about CSmith rushing to the neighbors about Maura, the rag and where was she now....did they happen to see her. Yes, just a couple minutes before you arrived they said. It changes the idea that CS thought it may already be a crime scene in my mind if true.

A few years after Maura's disappearance I personally spoken to a first responder that was there the night of the accident. They said that when they arrived on scene they were told that the driver had left the scene of an accident and could possibly be hurt. They also stated that they were close enough to the vehicle to look inside it.

and...what did they see? Or rather, didn't see?