Where is MAURA MURRAY

I was just catching up with the posts here and I must say to Beagle that he really stated his theory in a way I understand it. Thanks. It is thought provoking but IMHO I don't think this was what happened to Maura. I believe that until Maura is found there may very well be no answers. I agree Dawn more media attention with additional dollars could certainly break the silence that has prevailed since she went missing.

Wowzer wrote:

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I read it as a means to get money to pay a credit card debt.

Ahhhhh. Got it.

Quija wrote:

So the call about a suspicious Red Pickup Truck off the road, driver out of the vehicle, was not logged in? All other suspicious people and vehicles were.
Did I already post this?

If it WAS logged in, it was logged in before these logs start, or on a log from a town not included. You'll notice the time stamps of these logs are from the evening hours AFTER Maura's accident?

Beagle wrote:

Read this again, by Ron Green as quoted by Stephen S. Hall in his book Merchants of Immortality.
"We could go to one woman, harvest 10,000 eggs, and do all the research that anybody wanted with a single, or even a CADAVERED, donation of eggs." [emphasis mine]
If a harvest of approximately 10 eggs was fetching about $5,000 at the time, then what would 10,000 eggs from one woman be worth? What's 10,000 times 5,000?
FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS?
One dead woman's eggs are worth $50,000,000????
That's plenty of incentive for someone to try. There was a mobile unit cruising the roads of western and central Massachusetts, at the time of Bish's disappearance, looking for human eggs. There were advertisements in the Boston Globe.
And there was somone, other than the man in Florida, in a unique position to abduct Molly Bish.
Maybe the Florida man is guilty, maybe not. The Bish investigation has certainly been there before. After 8 years, maybe it's time for a fresh look at alternative explanations for Molly Bish's death.
And for the disappearance of Maura Murray.

Sorry for math mistake. Should have read FIVE MILLION DOLLARS, not FIFTY.

The $5,000 figure is what Kiessling's Bedford group was paying for human egg donations that averaged 10 eggs per harvest. Ron Green, according to Stephen Hall's book, spoke of (recommended, almost) the single "donation" of 10,000 human eggs from a single source, even a cadavered source. Grisly thought. And this is from the Ethics Advisory Board of Advanced Cell Technology.

Still, even the fifty million dollar figure is not out of the question. Several years ago some top level IVF egg donors were commanding prices close to $100,000 per harvest.$50,000 for every group of ten eggs from a top level donor, even a cadavered one (to use Ron Green's term) would yield $50,000,000. That's plenty of incentive for someone crazy enough to think such an idea might work.

Kiessling herself estimated at the time that the total cost of each harvest was $25,500.

I would not be surprised if there were more people willing to abduct and murder a young woman for a few million dollars (or at least in their minds a few million dollars) than there are sexual predator/serial killers on the loose. So why not broaden the base of potential suspects in order to keep up with the 21st century scientific demand for body parts?

SophieBean, I did notice the absolute fabricated assault on you which only exemplifies what we all struggle with our search for Maura.

A poster on Advocators site pointed out to me how importnat accuracy is. I have pondered on his multiple posts for awhile and realize the importance of his words. Although I disagree, it is important to note the weight of our words will carry over to inconsistancies that invoke anger or a defensive stance.

On another note, I believe in law enforcement. I believe that they do the most important job of protecting citizens to the best of their abilities. I also am thankful to the PI s whom have voluntarily put in thousands of hours on their own time to solve this case.

Although you know I believe this I will say that I believe Maura disappeared at her accident and we DO NOT know all that went on there!

Quija wrote:

Hi Snowy et al.,
The other day I was saying we are NOT all on different sides, and THEN I post these definitely untactful and undiplomatic posts (above)!! So, I guess it isn't SIDES so much as how we each APPORTION probability to the different things that might have happened. And regardless of how we rationally apportion probability to these things (to Maura being abducted at that spot, abducted later, helped at that spot, hid at that spot, going off to end her life from that spot or running away to start a new life from that spot), HOW TENACIOUSLY WE CLING TO OUR OPINIONS regardless of their probability, is the source of some friction.
The same can be said for the degree to which we each believe that any of us are trying to mislead, distract, or divert others.

In re-reading what you've written, Quija, you've identified the reason behind the strong emotions and discord at this site.

"...HOW TENACIOUSLY WE CLING TO OUR OPINIONS regardless of their probabilty, is the source of some friction."

After all, they are just opinions, often based on disputable facts.

You also interpret (very nicely) the perceptions of near PARANOIA (my word) that float here, too.

If someone accuses another of misleading, distracting or diverting, the accuser has probably bought into the fear that the other has the POWER to achieve these ends. It would seem highly doubtful.

Much may be unknown, but not necessarily hidden.

As for Alden, I don't doubt he honestly believes his theory is somewhere in the realm of probable/possible/actual.

Basically, in a nutshell, to over-simplify... I think it's possible that Maura Murray was a victim of, in the broadest sense, the abortion wars.

Maybe she was abducted because her abductor thought he could cash in on her body parts. Maybe she was abducted for Human Growth Hormone. Maybe she was illegally profiled through her medical records. Maybe she was pregnant and was abducted by extreme opponents of abortion. Maybe she was making an egg donation for the money such donations bring - in her case, probably around $50,000, maybe more.

But overall, the details point more toward an abduction for medical/scientific reasons than any other possibility. Other possibilities certainly exist and should not be dismissed, including spontaneous stranger abduction, or planned abduction.

But I think there are far more people who would kidnap and kill the right woman for a million dollars or more (maybe much more) than there are sexual predator/serial killer types waiting to pounce.

My only point is that the medical/scientific scenario is a very realistic one, one that obviously the general public and elected officials are not ready to recognize.

I don't have the reference in front of me for the RV-style traveling egg donation van, but it is available.

Someone, or some group, may have believed, correctly or incorrectly, that he/they would make a lot of money by harvesting the best eggs available, legally or not. Molly Bish, Maura Murray, and the Saratoga Springs High School track star certainly meet the criteria. The fact that there are so many connections among these three cases, not the least of which is the close proximity of stem cell research interests, argues for a closer and more open-minded examination of this scenario.

Houston TX ? That is a new one.

To put a finer point on it, I think it is a very realistic possibility - POSSIBILITY - that the University of Massachusetts and one or more of the businesses with which UMass is affiliated stood to benefit, unknowingly at the time, from the death of Molly Bish and the possible, even probable, death of Maura Murray.

Anne wrote:

SophieBean, I did notice the absolute fabricated assault on you which only exemplifies what we all struggle with our search for Maura.
A poster on Advocators site pointed out to me how importnat accuracy is. I have pondered on his multiple posts for awhile and realize the importance of his words. Although I disagree, it is important to note the weight of our words will carry over to inconsistancies that invoke anger or a defensive stance.
On another note, I believe in law enforcement. I believe that they do the most important job of protecting citizens to the best of their abilities. I also am thankful to the PI s whom have voluntarily put in thousands of hours on their own time to solve this case.
Although you know I believe this I will say that I believe Maura disappeared at her accident and we DO NOT know all that went on there!

Anne wrote:**I believe Maura disappeared at her accident and we DO NOT know all that went on there!**
And this is what brings everyone together as one. Everyone here wants to know what went on there.

'Round,'round, get around, I get around..."

Beagle wrote:

Basically, in a nutshell, to over-simplify... I think it's possible that Maura Murray was a victim of, in the broadest sense, the abortion wars.
Maybe she was abducted because her abductor thought he could cash in on her body parts. Maybe she was abducted for Human Growth Hormone. Maybe she was illegally profiled through her medical records. Maybe she was pregnant and was abducted by extreme opponents of abortion. Maybe she was making an egg donation for the money such donations bring - in her case, probably around $50,000, maybe more.
But overall, the details point more toward an abduction for medical/scientific reasons than any other possibility. Other possibilities certainly exist and should not be dismissed, including spontaneous stranger abduction, or planned abduction.
But I think there are far more people who would kidnap and kill the right woman for a million dollars or more (maybe much more) than there are sexual predator/serial killer types waiting to pounce.
My only point is that the medical/scientific scenario is a very realistic one, one that obviously the general public and elected officials are not ready to recognize.
I don't have the reference in front of me for the RV-style traveling egg donation van, but it is available.
Someone, or some group, may have believed, correctly or incorrectly, that he/they would make a lot of money by harvesting the best eggs available, legally or not. Molly Bish, Maura Murray, and the Saratoga Springs High School track star certainly meet the criteria. The fact that there are so many connections among these three cases, not the least of which is the close proximity of stem cell research interests, argues for a closer and more open-minded examination of this scenario.

Maybe...but why would she be targeted...the "right woman", as you suggest. Or Molly Bish, for that matter?

There are plenty of accomplished, intelligent, beautiful, and athletically gifted young women in this country.

OMO - new acronym for oh many one

If they link the Florida guy to both Bish and Murray ?

Would you rest your case?

I think you have a valid point. However, I am curious if he gives info that only the perp would know - that leads to evidence..

Would you still think they were connected to egg harvesting? Which I do think is very real........

Advocator wrote:

Based on this information, it sounds as though it is not a "walk in the clinic and get it done" kind of thing -- time and tests are involved. If Maura had planned to take off a week to go and have her eggs harvested, then presumably she would have had to have been celibate for the previous 2 months, and undergone the testing and hormone injections. Injections she could have done herself, but seems to me a couple of days would have been needed for the testing. Not to mention ultrasounds done in the wake of the hormone injections. We are talking time here and I don't see how she could have fit all that into her schedule.
On the other hand, if we are talking did she decide to leave school and take the time to get this done (staying elsewhere) so she could pay back her father for damage to his car, and also perhaps pay off some college debt or credit card debt, then *where's the money*? Those things were apparently never paid off.
There are several fertility clinics in New Hampshire, at least 3 of which are under Dartmouth-Hitchcock, but none of the clinics appear to be very near the Haverhill area.
Whether Maura had this in mind for herself or not, after reading just the first article I could be persuaded that she at least knew about it and may have known someone at school who did this.

A voluntary human egg donation does involve time and considerable inconvenience. But her possible "donation" may not have been voluntary. She may have become one of the cadaver donors to which Ron Green, as quoted by Stephen S. Hall, referred.

It is almost as if a single donation of 10,000 eggs at once were fervently wished for.

UMass, its business partners, and its professors have played a unique and central role in the young history of stem cell research - far more than most people realize.

The strong, perhaps nearly desperate, corporate/research need for more human eggs was certainly present in the central and western Massachusetts area. The right researchers and doctors were there. The right donors were there. The money, at least very potentially, was there. All this must have at least TEMPTED someone.

Dawn wrote:

I can understand your frustration Wowzer from being from the area. do you at least agree - LE did have inconsistancies at the very least ? Not saying they are at fault - but so soon after she went missing the neighbor filed a complaint. This to me is asking for public backlash. When I first read that - I could not believe what a cold hearted person. It wasn't like it had been years of searching - it was only months and of course he would want to search. JIMO - some did ask for some skeptical views - perhaps they didn't think clearly if so - easy to go on record and fix that perception

You're right. It was months of searching. Over and over again by different strangers.
Someone would be welcome to look for something in my yard once and maybe together with me but I would'nt want strange people traipsing thru my yard over and over. Do the people that live there not deserve their privacy back after their land was already searched? Is it being cold hearted to want their lives back to normal?

One thing we know for sure............. If there is stolen eggs............ There is DNA for sure.

Stanger has to be more than linked. He appears to be charged with second degree murder and might well be judged incompetent to stand trial.

It appears that the successful conclusion of the Bish case rests, in the eyes of LE, upon a confession.

Not a good mix.

I would truly hope that a simple, conventional scenario yields an abductor/killer/attacker in any case, especially the Bish and Murray cases. I would be very happy to see anyone who is truly guilty of having committed a crime against Bish and/or Murray convicted for those crimes, regardless of the exact circumstances.

I have no preference for the "type" of guilty person eventually found. But I have a strong preference for FINDING the guilty. And I do not think after these many years that any stone should be left unturned. Individual or corporate, it doesn't matter to me.

I happen to have my own approach (obviously), but I certainly would not discourage differing ones.

If Stanger is truly guilty, then, yes, my theory has no further use, which is fine with me.

Months of searching is a very short amount of time........... lots of clues take years to find. Such as a simple tiny earing. If someone went missing by my house - search all you want. I don't want to be a victim of foul play either - catch the crazy who did this. That is truly how I would be.. Search Search Search.. Once or twice................ not enough you are looking for a needle in a haystack.

I want to say this in a delicate way. I think that Wowzer provide good feedback.. Just a thought.. I know the people from NH have gotten bad press... however - I wonder if that is .. trying to say this nicely.. maybe there is a perception they have been less than helpful. Not saying you. Just saying - in general - you look at Molly Bish and that was the LARGEST search in the states history. They took it and the people of the state came together to try to find her and keep others in the state safe. Just from the outside looking in. Sometimes - I get a sense of ' go away we don't want you here" feeling.. I think if there was more - lets put an end to this.. What can we do.. Lets do it. Would be far more productive and the town folk would look like heros.