Where is MAURA MURRAY

propaganda firetruck wrote:

"I don't know what the matter is, or the trouble you think you might be in," he said, "but it isn't anything we can't solve.It's me — you can tell me. We'll work it out until we solve it."
Fred Murray

I think Maura found herself in trouble late Thursday night 2-5/2-6. She was crying uncontrollably. Who would she go to for help?

Fred has said that he's the one who would help her fix up whatever the problem is. And he showed up (approx) 24 hours after Maura's meltdown...

The question people have asked for years is "how far in advance were the plans made for Fred to come to UMass the weekend of 2-7/2-8?" Was it really for car shopping? Or was he coming up to help her fix a problem?

Was someone harassing Maura? Was someone threatening her in terms of making something public that would be embarrassing for her? Maura, being beautiful, smart, hard working and high achieving might have had a person who was envious and wanted to hurt her in some way out of jealousy.

I still wonder if a plan to get rid of the Saturn (which maybe hurt Vasi) was at the root of this activity... Did a plan to get rid of, or crush, the Saturn go wrong? Was a plan made to get rid of the Saturn and the "dealer" realized he had something over the owner(s)? Was Fred traveling with Maura up north for this purpose and something went wrong? Is that why Fred KNOWS Maura was right in that area and has searched that spot extensively instead of going back to investigate Amherst? Maybe he last saw her there?

Maura talked to her dad on Sunday night after 11PM (I believe when his shift was over). After that conversation, things started happening... computer searches, Maura tying up loose ends on Monday... waiting until 4 or 4:30 to head north.

Leaving the security desk during a (what? 8PM-2AM?) shift is something every worker would have to do --- even a bathroom break could occasionally take a fair amount of time. I wouldn't be surprised if it was common for someone to go get coffee... It seems that Maura was an inexperienced driver and one who was "distracted" during the Sat. night accident, so it wouldn't be impossible for her to have been distracted and inexperienced enough to have hurt Vasi. And then possibly veered into a fixed object?

Why did NH LE feel Maura's dad was not completely forthcoming?

This sounds very accusatory but we ALL help family and the only problem is in not disclosing it to LE.

Lady Gray wrote:

<quoted text>
Of course conclusions will be drawn from your earlier statement, are you kidding? Don't you see all the directions that conversations take on this forum? People take speculation for fact. Heck, they don't even need speculation.
You say: "I'm just providing information that I've read here or elsewhere..." and, then
You say: "It was said here on this forum. Period."
So, which is it? The reference to Maura Murray's father making such a statement.....was it here on Topix --- or was it elsewhere? <;o)
I have spent 3 1/2 years on Maura Murray's disappearance and this is the ONLY reference I've seen to such a statement, anywhere. At any time. Period.
Today is the 5 year anniversary of Ms. Murray's disappearance. Here's hoping that some are reading that have information to lead to answers.
Five years has been a long time. People know. Please do the right thing.

Lady Gray, it is out of my control if people want to make conclusions. Would you prefer that I state this information as fact? No, of course not, because that would be lying. I repeated what I clearly remember being said ON THIS FORUM, and I am not going to search this thing up and down to find it. Get a grip. You are free to disagree with me or anything I post, I really don't care. I read it here, I don't know if it is fact, but it has stuck with me. I haven't arrived to any conlusions based on this info, but it was said here. If you want to continue to press me on this that's fine, but I urge people to take it for what it is worth to them, not as a fact. Geez, how many times do I have to say it?

Snowy White wrote:

Logical.

OK.

But I have noticed this term used frequently in this forum - in several contexts - as if repeated.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>
I would suggest that much of what was written on the old MMM board reflected a strong to extreme pro-life bias and agenda.

Very interesting.

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>
I think Maura found herself in trouble late Thursday night 2-5/2-6. She was crying uncontrollably. Who would she go to for help?
Fred has said that he's the one who would help her fix up whatever the problem is. And he showed up (approx) 24 hours after Maura's meltdown...
The question people have asked for years is "how far in advance were the plans made for Fred to come to UMass the weekend of 2-7/2-8?" Was it really for car shopping? Or was he coming up to help her fix a problem?
Was someone harassing Maura? Was someone threatening her in terms of making something public that would be embarrassing for her? Maura, being beautiful, smart, hard working and high achieving might have had a person who was envious and wanted to hurt her in some way out of jealousy.
I still wonder if a plan to get rid of the Saturn (which maybe hurt Vasi) was at the root of this activity... Did a plan to get rid of, or crush, the Saturn go wrong? Was a plan made to get rid of the Saturn and the "dealer" realized he had something over the owner(s)? Was Fred traveling with Maura up north for this purpose and something went wrong? Is that why Fred KNOWS Maura was right in that area and has searched that spot extensively instead of going back to investigate Amherst? Maybe he last saw her there?
Maura talked to her dad on Sunday night after 11PM (I believe when his shift was over). After that conversation, things started happening... computer searches, Maura tying up loose ends on Monday... waiting until 4 or 4:30 to head north.
Leaving the security desk during a (what? 8PM-2AM?) shift is something every worker would have to do --- even a bathroom break could occasionally take a fair amount of time. I wouldn't be surprised if it was common for someone to go get coffee... It seems that Maura was an inexperienced driver and one who was "distracted" during the Sat. night accident, so it wouldn't be impossible for her to have been distracted and inexperienced enough to have hurt Vasi. And then possibly veered into a fixed object?
Why did NH LE feel Maura's dad was not completely forthcoming?
This sounds very accusatory but we ALL help family and the only problem is in not disclosing it to LE.

I think Maura found herself in trouble late Thursday night 2-5/2-6. She was crying uncontrollably. Who would she go to for help?
Fred has said that he's the one who would help her fix up whatever the problem is. And he showed up (approx) 24 hours after Maura's meltdown.

Great point, timing is just right. My only thought would be if this is what happened, why would Fred let Maura go party with her friends on Sat. night? If Maura was the honorable person I truly believe she was(without personally knowing her), it seems odd she would be drinking with friends less than 2 nights later if they elaborate plan was taking place. Does that make sense?

I'm curious to know what precisely would lead to the conclusion that there was "an extreme pro-life bias" on the MMM forum. I never had any sense of that from anyone, ever. That's mere conjecture based on no evidence of any kind, but it WOULD "support the theory" if it were true. Interesting tactic, construct a "fact' to support your theory, then say that your theory is correct because of the "fact" that you just invented to support it. It's especially interesting since there is no longer access to the MMM forum, and anyone can claim anything was said there and hide behind "prove that it ISN'T so!"
Lovely.

sophie bean wrote:

I'm curious to know what precisely would lead to the conclusion that there was "an extreme pro-life bias" on the MMM forum. I never had any sense of that from anyone, ever. That's mere conjecture based on no evidence of any kind, but it WOULD "support the theory" if it were true. Interesting tactic, construct a "fact' to support your theory, then say that your theory is correct because of the "fact" that you just invented to support it. It's especially interesting since there is no longer access to the MMM forum, and anyone can claim anything was said there and hide behind "prove that it ISN'T so!"
Lovely.

There it is, Ben Franklin. A very specific example.

Benjamin Franklyne wrote:

<quoted text>
Come now - your an educated person with a profession. What does DSM say about anyone that believes that several random and disbursed people all coincidentally just happen to "DESIRE A CONCLUSION" that will materially impact the subjects life?

Indeed, this is precisely what Beagle did in his post - he wanted to "prove" a connection between Maura and a "strong to extreme pro-life agenda" so consructed such a "connection" to "prove" his theory. If that's not "desiring a conclusion" I can't imagine what would be.

Beagle, care to comment? Would you care to also let us know which screen names ARE yours so that we can understand more clearly to whom we are speaking?

Dawn wrote:

Beagle
Check out Newsweek Jan 19th - There is a eye opening article about selling organs/eggs etc. The only country its legal is Iran. They even have a case from Cedar San?? the one in LA. This has happened in DC, New York and CA - documented cases.
However, I do NOT think this happened to Maura. They go through tons of test.

Thanks. Will look at it asap. I think writing about a black market might be a little harder than writing about the legal market. Writer might have to confine research to that based on already arrested criminals and prosecutions. But definitely look forward to reading article.

Basically, if a person has enough money and enough desire, s/he can get just about anything ahead of those on a list. Whether it's the newest electronics item or a kidney, if you have the money, you can somehow get it a lot sooner than those without the money.

Thanks again for letting me know.

As for the idea that she may have been killed or abducted in Amherst and her car dumped in NH on 112, by intuition I do not agree, although I have no way of knowing. There is footage of her buying the booz and withdrawing money from her ATM, alone on both occasions. Soon thereafter (no longer than one hour later) the car was on its way to the eventual accident scene. She appeared to be leaving.

For me, the question is how the car came to be traveling east on 112, when that was not a good way to any of the destinatoin suggested by the evidence or simply theorized based on her knowledge of the area. That makes me think someone else was in the car, but - as I said - I think it was with her.

The rag in the tail pipe also suggests two people. I cannot imagine the cicumstance under which one person would put a rag in a tail pipe. Its only conceivable purpose is to prevent the car from starting, by forcing a backfire. If you departed your car in rural NH with the keys, you would not be worried about someone else starting the car. But one can imagine motives in one person if two are there; i.e., the car could be started again, but person a don't want person b to know that. The fact that the rag itself came from inside the roadside assistance kit, suggests that person a and person b were traveling together to that point.

Obviously, there are limits to what can be said on this forum. I would suggest that there was a strong to extreme pro-life agenda on the old MMM forum. Anyone who wants to discover the pro-life interest is free to do so. It's not hard to do.

In fact, I'll bet that a small determined group of posters on this board already know this to be the case and are unnerved by its mention because they themselves are members of the extreme pro-life movement, which justifies any action, including lying, intimidation, and murder, in order to prevent abortion.

So... let's even say that a paranoid nut case advances an Amherst-weighted theory about Maura Murray's disappearance. Is that how you take a short cut to judge the merits of the theory? You look at the theory only superficially, are unable to absorb it, and then say that the source is not capable of saying anything worthwhile? Or the source is trying to sabotage the WHOLE investigation by writing on one Topix thread out of many thousands of Topix threads?

If your nightmare of a paranoid schizophrenic Topix poster says the sun rises in the east, do you say that he's wrong because he's nuts?

I doubt ANY reputable clinical psychologist or psychiatrist or even clear thinking and honest detective would ever try to accurately diagnose a mental illness based soley on posts that appear on Topix. Remember, the debate about Hamlet rages still.(ala Lloyd Bentsen, "Beagle, you're no Hamlet.")

One tiny little thread that cannot seem to be ignored? One poster among millions on the planet who draws soooo much unflattering attention? How come? Is there something about this particular POSTER, aside from what he has posted, that causes such an extreme reaction? Is it the postings or the poster?

There is a veritable TON of potentially RELEVANT factual information available regarding Amherst. A TON of it. Not all of it, clearly, will end up being relevant, but some of it will. Anyone who wants to discover it has that opportunity. It's there for the taking. But there is some huge need to discredit not the information as much as the poster who posts the information, and his accompanying opinion.

After five years, if there were a single shred of interest in finding out what happened to Maura Murray, SOMEONE (else) would have looked more thoroughly into the role Amherst could have played. But not only is the Amherst viewpoint ignored, it is reacted to viciously and without end. The Amherst viewpoint is trashed with incessant panic and anger.

I truly doubt that any poster on this board who steadfastly and meanly criticizes an alternative theory, and keeps trying to intimidate the poster who advances an alternate theory, is at all interested in "finding" Maura Murray.

It's been five long, terrible years. Is Maura NOT worth someone's honestly pursuing an alternative theory? Is Maura worth ONLY looking at the crash site and the surrounding population?

Does trashing a poster come before finding out why Maura Murray disappeared? So what if all this poster's posts are way off target? Is Maura NOT worth taking the time to look more closely at Amherst?

Because, straight up. she and her family have been DISHONORED and TRASHED by the exclusive preoccupation with a curve in the road in a small town in New Hampshire where no one is truly KNOWN to have seen her.

Maybe Maura disappeared in Haverhill five years ago. Maybe she took her own life. Maybe she was the victim of an opportunistic abduction. But if no one is, by this time, pressing an alternative scenario, then NO ONE is giving Maura and her loved ones all they so truly deserve.

Quija wrote:

<quoted text>
I think Maura found herself in trouble late Thursday night 2-5/2-6. She was crying uncontrollably. Who would she go to for help?
Fred has said that he's the one who would help her fix up whatever the problem is. And he showed up (approx) 24 hours after Maura's meltdown...
The question people have asked for years is "how far in advance were the plans made for Fred to come to UMass the weekend of 2-7/2-8?" Was it really for car shopping? Or was he coming up to help her fix a problem?
Was someone harassing Maura? Was someone threatening her in terms of making something public that would be embarrassing for her? Maura, being beautiful, smart, hard working and high achieving might have had a person who was envious and wanted to hurt her in some way out of jealousy.
I still wonder if a plan to get rid of the Saturn (which maybe hurt Vasi) was at the root of this activity... Did a plan to get rid of, or crush, the Saturn go wrong? Was a plan made to get rid of the Saturn and the "dealer" realized he had something over the owner(s)? Was Fred traveling with Maura up north for this purpose and something went wrong? Is that why Fred KNOWS Maura was right in that area and has searched that spot extensively instead of going back to investigate Amherst? Maybe he last saw her there?
Maura talked to her dad on Sunday night after 11PM (I believe when his shift was over). After that conversation, things started happening... computer searches, Maura tying up loose ends on Monday... waiting until 4 or 4:30 to head north.
Leaving the security desk during a (what? 8PM-2AM?) shift is something every worker would have to do --- even a bathroom break could occasionally take a fair amount of time. I wouldn't be surprised if it was common for someone to go get coffee... It seems that Maura was an inexperienced driver and one who was "distracted" during the Sat. night accident, so it wouldn't be impossible for her to have been distracted and inexperienced enough to have hurt Vasi. And then possibly veered into a fixed object?
Why did NH LE feel Maura's dad was not completely forthcoming?
This sounds very accusatory but we ALL help family and the only problem is in not disclosing it to LE.

Quija This makes very good sense and ties up so many loose ends. Good thinking. She could not use the Saturn as a trade in because local car dealers would have been warned by LE to be on the lookout for a car with this type of front end damage.

John wrote:

As for the idea that she may have been killed or abducted in Amherst and her car dumped in NH on 112, by intuition I do not agree, although I have no way of knowing. There is footage of her buying the booz and withdrawing money from her ATM, alone on both occasions. Soon thereafter (no longer than one hour later) the car was on its way to the eventual accident scene. She appeared to be leaving.
For me, the question is how the car came to be traveling east on 112, when that was not a good way to any of the destinatoin suggested by the evidence or simply theorized based on her knowledge of the area. That makes me think someone else was in the car, but - as I said - I think it was with her.
The rag in the tail pipe also suggests two people. I cannot imagine the cicumstance under which one person would put a rag in a tail pipe. Its only conceivable purpose is to prevent the car from starting, by forcing a backfire. If you departed your car in rural NH with the keys, you would not be worried about someone else starting the car. But one can imagine motives in one person if two are there; i.e., the car could be started again, but person a don't want person b to know that. The fact that the rag itself came from inside the roadside assistance kit, suggests that person a and person b were traveling together to that point.

John,

I tend to broadly agree with the scenario in your post.
I shall probably be slammed for saying this, but please have a look at the web site "Forensic Astrology" where Maura´s case is featured and where it is being suggested that Maura and a male friend of hers were travelling together in the Saturn, and that they were later picked up by a confederate in another car.

suzanne wrote:

<quoted text>
Quija This makes very good sense and ties up so many loose ends. Good thinking. She could not use the Saturn as a trade in because local car dealers would have been warned by LE to be on the lookout for a car with this type of front end damage.

Good observation. But not all people in Amherst with a commercial interest in cars - average or otherwise - and who have been contacted by LE to be on the lookout for a damaged car, are going to call the police back. Off hand, I can think of at least two or three who might decide against it.

Here's something really, really, really easy to do. Find out whether any cars that have been towed to or driven to a motel after having been damaged in a crash are appraised by an insurance appraiser at the motel.

If you discover the answer, then check your Maura meter to see whether you are STILL interested in finding out what happened to her or whether you have reached the limits of your commitment and are just exhausted by having to work so hard to on Maura's behalf. If you USE your head - and you do not have to be particularly bright to do so here - then maybe you will find out something a bit useful. And maybe, just maybe, quite surprising.

Eurobserver wrote:

<quoted text>
John,
I tend to broadly agree with the scenario in your post.
I shall probably be slammed for saying this, but please have a look at the web site "Forensic Astrology" where Maura´s case is featured and where it is being suggested that Maura and a male friend of hers were travelling together in the Saturn, and that they were later picked up by a confederate in another car.

With every bit of respect - no slam intended - I would submit that "forensic" and "astrology" are nearly mutually exclusive words that cannot be used in the ordinary sense.

Forensic means expert testimony in a courtroom on a topic the real-world veracity of which has already been established and accepted by the court.

Which leaves out astrology. For good reason.

Beagle wrote:

After five years, if there were a single shred of interest in finding out what happened to Maura Murray, SOMEONE (else) would have looked more thoroughly into the role Amherst could have played. But not only is the Amherst viewpoint ignored, it is reacted to viciously and without end. The Amherst viewpoint is trashed with incessant panic and anger.
I truly doubt that any poster on this board who steadfastly and meanly criticizes an alternative theory, and keeps trying to intimidate the poster who advances an alternate theory, is at all interested in "finding" Maura Murray.
It's been five long, terrible years. Is Maura NOT worth someone's honestly pursuing an alternative theory? Is Maura worth ONLY looking at the crash site and the surrounding population?
Does trashing a poster come before finding out why Maura Murray disappeared? So what if all this poster's posts are way off target? Is Maura NOT worth taking the time to look more closely at Amherst?
Because, straight up. she and her family have been DISHONORED and TRASHED by the exclusive preoccupation with a curve in the road in a small town in New Hampshire where no one is truly KNOWN to have seen her.
Maybe Maura disappeared in Haverhill five years ago. Maybe she took her own life. Maybe she was the victim of an opportunistic abduction. But if no one is, by this time, pressing an alternative scenario, then NO ONE is giving Maura and her loved ones all they so truly deserve.

I have been encouraging investigating the Amherst end of this case for years, I have not been trashed, I have been ignored.

"And maybe, just maybe, quite surprising."


It's my birthday....please tell me more.!

Columbo

Weeper (John Healy) went to the location on Rt 112 in Haverhill (Swiftwater) with a psychic last week. He states that he is very impressed. He said this psychic is the real deal. It is so unfortunate that Fred chose X as his psychic - she is a total fraud. IMHO Not Fred's fault, how would he know?

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
There it is, Ben Franklin. A very specific example.

To be clear - other people have accused people besides "Beagle" of having "Another Agenda."

So I got the point you were making - but the example you presented was isolated to 1 incident, whereas I'm taking about its use beyond the isolated example.