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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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suzanne wrote: <quoted text>
I have been encouraging investigating the Amherst end of this case for years, I have not been trashed, I have been ignored. With all due respect - not being a wiseass here despite how it sounds (apologies in advance if necessary, nothing personal)... If ENCOURAGING investigating the Amherst end of this case gets you ignored, then what might actually INVESTIGATING (within legal limits) the Amherst end of this case get you? Trashed on this board? How terrible. How about getting threatened by a police officer? Not even a UMass police officer. Not nicely. Not as a request. As a real nasty threat. How about getting tailed, as in harassed, by a PI who has investigated this case? Who works for an immediate family member's best friend?(And that's a FACT from the horse's mouth because it's my family I'm referring to.) How about being told by another person investigating this case that she will be stealing and rummaging through your trash and keeping you under surveillance? Oh, but what would a paranoid schizophrenic know? If I say these are veiled threats, then of course I must be paranoid. Veiled threats don't really exist in the real world, do they? Sorry, they do. All the time. For those who actually live in the real world, at street level. With all due respect, there are several posters who give lip service to looking into Amherst, but if they actually DO look into Amherst themselves in any SUBSTANTIAL way, it's something I'm unaware of. The more you look into this case, the nastier the trashing. And the vast majority of the trashing does NOT take place in this thread, any more than the entire investigation, and the effort to thwart that investigation, takes place in this thread.
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Beagle wrote: Obviously, there are limits to what can be said on this forum. I would suggest that there was a strong to extreme pro-life agenda on the old MMM forum. Anyone who wants to discover the pro-life interest is free to do so. It's not hard to do.
In fact, I'll bet that a small determined group of posters on this board already know this to be the case and are unnerved by its mention because they themselves are members of the extreme pro-life movement, which justifies any action, including lying, intimidation, and murder, in order to prevent abortion.
So... let's even say that a paranoid nut case advances an Amherst-weighted theory about Maura Murray's disappearance. Is that how you take a short cut to judge the merits of the theory? You look at the theory only superficially, are unable to absorb it, and then say that the source is not capable of saying anything worthwhile? Or the source is trying to sabotage the WHOLE investigation by writing on one Topix thread out of many thousands of Topix threads?
If your nightmare of a paranoid schizophrenic Topix poster says the sun rises in the east, do you say that he's wrong because he's nuts?
I doubt ANY reputable clinical psychologist or psychiatrist or even clear thinking and honest detective would ever try to accurately diagnose a mental illness based soley on posts that appear on Topix. Remember, the debate about Hamlet rages still.(ala Lloyd Bentsen, "Beagle, you're no Hamlet.")
One tiny little thread that cannot seem to be ignored? One poster among millions on the planet who draws soooo much unflattering attention? How come? Is there something about this particular POSTER, aside from what he has posted, that causes such an extreme reaction? Is it the postings or the poster?
There is a veritable TON of potentially RELEVANT factual information available regarding Amherst. A TON of it. Not all of it, clearly, will end up being relevant, but some of it will. Anyone who wants to discover it has that opportunity. It's there for the taking. But there is some huge need to discredit not the information as much as the poster who posts the information, and his accompanying opinion.
After five years, if there were a single shred of interest in finding out what happened to Maura Murray, SOMEONE (else) would have looked more thoroughly into the role Amherst could have played. But not only is the Amherst viewpoint ignored, it is reacted to viciously and without end. The Amherst viewpoint is trashed with incessant panic and anger.
I truly doubt that any poster on this board who steadfastly and meanly criticizes an alternative theory, and keeps trying to intimidate the poster who advances an alternate theory, is at all interested in "finding" Maura Murray.
It's been five long, terrible years. Is Maura NOT worth someone's honestly pursuing an alternative theory? Is Maura worth ONLY looking at the crash site and the surrounding population?
Does trashing a poster come before finding out why Maura Murray disappeared? So what if all this poster's posts are way off target? Is Maura NOT worth taking the time to look more closely at Amherst?
Because, straight up. she and her family have been DISHONORED and TRASHED by the exclusive preoccupation with a curve in the road in a small town in New Hampshire where no one is truly KNOWN to have seen her.
Maybe Maura disappeared in Haverhill five years ago. Maybe she took her own life. Maybe she was the victim of an opportunistic abduction. But if no one is, by this time, pressing an alternative scenario, then NO ONE is giving Maura and her loved ones all they so truly deserve. You are right that one cannot make a diagnosis based on a few posts. But one can make a guess. I guess that you have the vocabulary of a junior in college trapped within the intellect and imagination (not to mention tendency toward ego-induced, substance-less flourishes) of an 11 year old.
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gvmeabrk
Weare, NH
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Did anyone from the forum go to DD today to meet with the detectives?
If so, how did it go? Any new or useful info?
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suzanne
Sharon, MA
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Judged:
2
2
The second post on page 1 of the thread entitled - Newspaper Articles in the MM forum has Fred saying that Maura WAS UPSET ABOUT SOMETHING OVER THE WEEKEND THAT PRECEDED HER DISAPPEARANCE.
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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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Detective Columbo wrote: "And maybe, just maybe, quite surprising."
It's my birthday....please tell me more.!
Columbo You convene a meeting for the purpose of gathering information about Maura Murray's disappearance, a meeting that should have been held far more privately, in the most absurdly public place possible in a small town three hours north of where Maura Murray was last KNOWN to have been seen, where no resident knew her (that we're aware), and to where she had never traveled. You may as well have held your meeting in a phone booth in China. It was not a meeting anyone to whom you would honestly say "please tell me more" would ever attend and you know it. It was the appearance, only the very thin appearance, of a meeting, but not for the purpose of actually making any progress. YOU said it was the ONLY place at which you would accept information. How deep your commitment to finding Maura Murray really runs. You talk out of both sides of your mouth every chance you get. You play stupid tactical word games. You leave a trail of asinine, cryptic, junior high school remarks. And then you ask for assistance in this thread - assistance relating to, OF ALL PLACES, Massachusetts. Why would you be the slightest bit interested in a view that did not rule out Amherst? I thought you were interested ONLY in the Haverhill NH end of this case. Hey, you wouldn't have had a telemarketer by the name of Nason call you, by any chance? Those telemarketers are pesky people. They really keep at you. Ever have a telemarketer named Nason keep calling you?
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suzanne
Sharon, MA
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suzanne wrote: The second post on page 1 of the thread entitled - Newspaper Articles in the MM forum has Fred saying that Maura WAS UPSET ABOUT SOMETHING OVER THE WEEKEND THAT PRECEDED HER DISAPPEARANCE. Fred stated this to a local reporter on Feb 12 2004
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Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Comments: 320
San Mateo, CA
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Judged:
1
Beagle wrote: "Beagle wrote: <quoted text> I would suggest that much of what was written on the old MMM board reflected a strong to extreme pro-life bias and agenda." sophie bean wrote: "I'm curious to know what precisely would lead to the conclusion that there was "an extreme pro-life bias" on the MMM forum. I never had any sense of that from anyone, ever. That's mere conjecture based on no evidence of any kind, but it WOULD "support the theory" if it were true. Interesting tactic, construct a "fact' to support your theory, then say that your theory is correct because of the "fact" that you just invented to support it. It's especially interesting since there is no longer access to the MMM forum, and anyone can claim anything was said there and hide behind 'prove that it ISN'T so!' Lovely." Snowy White Wrote: "There it is, Ben Franklin. A very specific example." Just a side comment here - I'm not a religious person. I guess I'm more or less pro choice. Just so everybody knows my point of view. Even *if* supposedly every person that were involved with the old MMM forum were pro life - so what? So what? I don't see how being pro life would negatively impact the investigation. Its a different issue. I'm sure some pro choice people are anti-war - on the grounds that war causes death. I'm pro choice and I hope Maura is found safe, alive and happy. So I don't really know what the accusation was supposed to accomplish - but even if it were true - it wouldn't change my opinion and I doubt many others.
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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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suzanne wrote: <quoted text>
Fred stated this to a local reporter on Feb 12 2004 Nice find. Do you know what reporter or publication? Can the quote be verified? Not questioning your honesty, just wondering...
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Eurobserver wrote: <quoted text>
John,
I tend to broadly agree with the scenario in your post.
I shall probably be slammed for saying this, but please have a look at the web site "Forensic Astrology" where Maura´s case is featured and where it is being suggested that Maura and a male friend of hers were travelling together in the Saturn, and that they were later picked up by a confederate in another car. Thanks Eurobserver. Appreciate the tip. My predisposition is to ignore astology, but I am willing to look at anything that provokes thought.
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Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Comments: 320
San Mateo, CA
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Beagle wrote: <quoted text>
You convene a meeting for the purpose of gathering information about Maura Murray's disappearance, a meeting that should have been held far more privately, in the most absurdly public place possible in a small town three hours north of where Maura Murray was last KNOWN to have been seen, where no resident knew her (that we're aware), and to where she had never traveled.
You may as well have held your meeting in a phone booth in China. It was not a meeting anyone to whom you would honestly say "please tell me more" would ever attend and you know it. It was the appearance, only the very thin appearance, of a meeting, but not for the purpose of actually making any progress.
YOU said it was the ONLY place at which you would accept information. How deep your commitment to finding Maura Murray really runs. You talk out of both sides of your mouth every chance you get. You play stupid tactical word games. You leave a trail of asinine, cryptic, junior high school remarks. And then you ask for assistance in this thread - assistance relating to, OF ALL PLACES, Massachusetts.
Why would you be the slightest bit interested in a view that did not rule out Amherst? I thought you were interested ONLY in the Haverhill NH end of this case.
Hey, you wouldn't have had a telemarketer by the name of Nason call you, by any chance? Those telemarketers are pesky people. They really keep at you. Ever have a telemarketer named Nason keep calling you? Beagle - his part of the team is working the NH geographic area - and I honestly believe he's trying his best - he's been going for 5 years - he's a human being - it isn't always easy to come accross the way you want to - its got to be frustrating. Anyway I appreciate everyone's efforts - his, yours, what have you. But I can only speak from distance - I have not experienced what either of you have.
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“beauty ~ nature ~ the roar”
Joined: Jun 12, 2008
Comments: 643
Gloucester, MA
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Sorry. Don't understand the Birthright connection.
Is the suggestion that Maura sought help from them for pregnancy? Were there threats to her? Or an involuntary contract with this 'agency'?
Did she volunteer there? Or work there?
Why would right-to-lifers be actively interested in Maura Murray?
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Detective Columbo
Littleton, NH
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I am not responsible for the chosen meeting place. The meeting was planned so people could meet the PI'S and confirm their identity. I also never stated that is the only place info would be accepted. Please get your facts straight before you bite. I myself am very interested in Amherst Ma. and Haverhill NH. Please don't insinuate that I am not or have not been looking into all aspects of this case. You have no idea what info has been collected or where it was collected. The trail leads to Haverhill NH from Amherst Ma. and that has been looked at extensively. If you have the answers, then go give it to LE and let them sort it out. Thank You...Columbo
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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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Judged:
1
1
Benjamin Franklyne wrote: Beagle wrote:
Even *if* supposedly every person that were involved with the old MMM forum were pro life - so what?
So what? I don't see how being pro life would negatively impact the investigation. Its a different issue.
So I don't really know what the accusation was supposed to accomplish - but even if it were true - it wouldn't change my opinion and I doubt many others. This is a reasonable assumption if you knew all the facts. It might - might - be irrelevant if the old MMM board were nearly exclusively pro-life. But even then, one would have to at least wonder a little bit. When, however, you get to the strong to extreme end of the pro-life spectrum, then you're talking about a whole different group of people. You may not be talking about Eric Rudolph, or about someone who would harbor a fugitive like him, but you'd be talking about the KIND of person who might not turn Rudolph into LE if he recognized him (Rudolph) on the street. I wish I could convey it all another way - just straightforwardly - but all I can say is that you have to be close to Amherst to understand what goes on in Amherst. Basically, there's been an underground kind of abortion war going on for a long time now. There's good reason to believe that Maura Murray's disappearance is related to that war. I'm not sure exactly how it's related, but I feel that there are really strong indications that this is the case. All I can say is that I have my reasons for believing so. I'm not saying that everyone should drop the Haverhill perspective for an Amherst abortion war perspective. But after five years, who cares how nutty the messenger's delivery sounds? Aren't there one or two people who are not afraid to embarrass themselves in order to find out what happened to Maura? Is it really so awful, so high a price to pay, to be called a kook if you try to look at what has been deliberately shunned in an effort to discover the reason for Maura's disappearance? I am amazed that so many think Maura's disappearance is worth talking about as long as the subject is confined to a bumpy, bending road three hours north of where she is last known to have been seen; worth talking about as long as the discussion focuses only on some conveniently abstract, far away place. But practically no one believes that she and her loved ones are worth the effort required to ACTIVELY, SUBSTANTIALLY look at Amherst. No one thinks Maura is worth THAT much. But some very vocal liars who regularly post on this thread think she is worth making sure that any alternative views are met fast with anger and intimidation. When someone who is subtly working to keep the Amherst view off the table tells you what items you have in your suitcase in your hotel room and what a little of your medical history is and tells you a bunch of details that they magically know about your life that even a first rate internet search would not turn up, then you know you've walked into a snake pit. I call it an extreme pro-life snake pit.
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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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Detective Columbo wrote: I am not responsible for the chosen meeting place. The meeting was planned so people could meet the PI'S and confirm their identity. I also never stated that is the only place info would be accepted.
Please get your facts straight before you bite. I myself am very interested in Amherst Ma. and Haverhill NH. Please don't insinuate that I am not or have not been looking into all aspects of this case. You have no idea what info has been collected or where it was collected.
The trail leads to Haverhill NH from Amherst Ma. and that has been looked at extensively. If you have the answers, then go give it to LE and let them sort it out.
Thank You...Columbo You're full of shit. You were asked for an alternative meeting place. You declined. You were asked for some way to vouch for your identity. You declined. You think someone with my views could show up at tiny little Dunkin' Donuts and not get shouted out? Or worse? You know goddamn well I cannot go to the police. And you know goddamn well why. I know where this crap comes from and so do you. The only difference I see is that you fabricate an endless series of bullshit and derision that protects the guilty. I assume you're getting well paid for it. You tacitly endorse, by not speaking out against, the bullying tactics so obvious in this thread. You conveniently ignore and deny the extreme tactics already employed out of public view in this case. And the extreme PI who conveniently is never mentioned. And he's not from NH. No, I DO NOT know all the answers, but I do know one thing for sure: you're totally spineless.
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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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Detective Columbo wrote: I am not responsible for the chosen meeting place. The meeting was planned so people could meet the PI'S and confirm their identity.
Thank You...Columbo Confirm a PI's identity? Are you kidding me? PI's are in the very business of deceit. I don't care what you say in a place like this. For all anyone knows, you could be a teenager from Syria.(Because you are definitely from SOME axis of evil, that's for sure.) The meeting was planned so people could meet the PI's and confirm their identity? What people? The people you've been harassing in Haverhill? Is this some kind of new PR tactic? Or scare tactic? I don't know of one good reason to say you're not a Sophie Bean/Elsewherebriefly/Lady Gray clone. Not one reason. But of course you offered to confirm your identity in the equivalent of a phone booth in China, so why shouldn't I believe you?
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John
Alexandria, VA
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Judged:
1
1
I just wrote a long message expounding an idea about this case and the post did not show up. Oddly, it espoused an Amherst connection. Perhaps Beagle is on to something?
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Beagle
Amherst, MA
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Snowy White wrote: Sorry. Don't understand the Birthright connection.
Is the suggestion that Maura sought help from them for pregnancy? Were there threats to her? Or an involuntary contract with this 'agency'?
Did she volunteer there? Or work there?
Why would right-to-lifers be actively interested in Maura Murray? I don't totally understand the connection either, but pro-life people, and a couple of police officers, have sure made their presence known in my life. Strong and loud and clear. And real, real unpleasantly. And no, it's not the way some poster or two will twist the truth to make me look bad or paranoid or something like that. I rather doubt any poster on this board has had someone show up at his sister's house 1500 miles away with a message to her for me to keep my mouth shut. That's the same as his saying we know not only where you live and how to get to you, but we know how to get to your sister, too. I don't go for that kind of stuff. I get kind of upset when someone threatens me that way. I get kind of upset when people come to my house in the middle of the night and move things around in the backyard just to let me know they were there. Only hours after having posted fresh information. This list of OFF line harassment is endless. I didn't go looking for this fight. It came to me. As far as I'm concerned these so-called PI's and their cloney cyber bullies are just part and parcel of the whole goddamn thing.
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FireCat
United States
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sophie bean wrote: I'm curious to know what precisely would lead to the conclusion that there was "an extreme pro-life bias" on the MMM forum. I never had any sense of that from anyone, ever. That's mere conjecture based on no evidence of any kind, but it WOULD "support the theory" if it were true. Interesting tactic, construct a "fact' to support your theory, then say that your theory is correct because of the "fact" that you just invented to support it. It's especially interesting since there is no longer access to the MMM forum, and anyone can claim anything was said there and hide behind "prove that it ISN'T so!"
Lovely. Yeah, I'm pretty sure the topic of abortion or right-to-life never even CAME UP on the old board. At all. Ever. It was posited by some that perhaps Maura might have been pregnant (I wondered that aloud myself at one point) but that was as far as anyone ever took it. Where the hell you got "extreme pro-life agenda" from is someplace firmly beyond the grip of reality. We know you dislike the Murrays and their team of private investigators, and we know that UMass has given you a no-trespassing order effective for the next two years. And yet you continue to insist that you have no agenda. Utterly mind-boggling. Extreme pro-life agenda? What are you smoking, dude??
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FireCat
United States
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Beagle wrote: <quoted text>
Thanks. Will look at it asap. I think writing about a black market might be a little harder than writing about the legal market. Writer might have to confine research to that based on already arrested criminals and prosecutions. But definitely look forward to reading article.
Basically, if a person has enough money and enough desire, s/he can get just about anything ahead of those on a list. Whether it's the newest electronics item or a kidney, if you have the money, you can somehow get it a lot sooner than those without the money.
Thanks again for letting me know. Need a new kidney or something?
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FireCat
United States
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John wrote: As for the idea that she may have been killed or abducted in Amherst and her car dumped in NH on 112, by intuition I do not agree, although I have no way of knowing. There is footage of her buying the booz and withdrawing money from her ATM, alone on both occasions. Actually John that's one of those things that gets repeated so often people think it's a fact, especially if they've just gotten on board (hi by the way). Did you know that there is only ONE videotape? I can't recall off the top of my head if it's the ATM or the liquor store, but there's only tape at one of those two places. Weird, no?
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