Where is MAURA MURRAY

Watching wrote:

BeagleBart, everything is worth investigating in a case with no answers. I can't wrap my mind around her hitting Vasi though. Having two accidents in such a short period of time is not likely either. The problem is, we have no new answers that have come forth from Umass in over 3 years. It's hard to sift through the totally unknown.
Airing my mind......Some people's computer time may be better spent continuing their education than painfully attempting to mis-educate others. I know a lady who is biting her tongue real hard right now. lol Not hard to deciphre that distinct style. Do you have a photo to share with us? My fuse is long, but this one is the mosquito in my tent every time.

Over 3 years? What are the old answers?

BeagleBart wrote:

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Security desk call, assuming there was one, occurred too early to obtain any information about Vasi.

security desk crying incident was, according to the media, about 3 hours after the conversation with her sister at around 10:20. Vasi was found at 12:20. Karen Mayotte walked her back to her single room in the Kennedy dormitory around 1:20 a.m. Maura never told Mayotte why she was upset.

I missed this the first time I read the series of articles but came across it today "Billy consoled her over the phone, though he would later say he thought there was more than just the accident on Maura's mind." (It's regarding the accident with Fred's car.)

Watching wrote:

always in paper correction mode huh? lol

professional hazard, I guess. ;-)

BeagleBart wrote:

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Okay, that's helpful.
Kelly Ayotte is the NH AG.
Karen Ayotte is in the UMass nursing school office.
Karen Mayotte is the security supervisor.
The "M" is a fact because it's in a smalltown newspaper story? I mean snow banks, trees, alcohol odors, police reports, suicide, tow trucks, and so on are routinely doubted, but a reporters accuracy in recording an easily mis-heard, or mis-pronounced name is considered fact?

No, the M is a fact because I've communicated with Ms. Mayotte on MMM forum, as have others, and I'm presuming she knows how to spell her last name.

FireCat wrote:

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...I'm presuming she knows how to spell her last name.

Most likely.

BeagleBart wrote:

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Most likely.

Though I confess when tired enough I've had trouble with mine. I might now, if prodded. Night, all.

looking4amoose wrote:

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security desk crying incident was, according to the media, about 3 hours after the conversation with her sister at around 10:20. Vasi was found at 12:20. Karen Mayotte walked her back to her single room in the Kennedy dormitory around 1:20 a.m. Maura never told Mayotte why she was upset.
I missed this the first time I read the series of articles but came across it today "Billy consoled her over the phone, though he would later say he thought there was more than just the accident on Maura's mind." (It's regarding the accident with Fred's car.)

No one at Baystate would have identified an admission of this nature this early, even if it were legal to do so, which it is not.

No, HIPPA would prevent the hospital from giving out any information, but she could have learned of the accident. Does UMass have its own radio station or some other on campus form of communication? Did she get a cell phone call at around that time? Can calls come into the security desk?

I have a question for anyone who can answer this please. a police dispatch log would it be considered a legal document?

The ICU staff at Baystate are very familiar with the many kinds of attempts to learn the exact condition of a patient who has suffered injuries as the result of a crime. Only immediate family members are given any information. There is a way of making sure who is a family member and who is not. Persistent callers who are not family members receive special attention.

Take, for example, a drive-by shooting. Often, the shooter does not know how badly the victim was hit. The shooter wants to know whether to lie low, leave town, or start cross-dressing in New Zealand.

Police are very aware that the shooter might have a friend call the unit to learn the victim's prognosis, and these calls are routinely investigated. The nurses are especially vigilant regarding phone calls of this nature. They are always quizzed by police about everything they know, have heard, seen... everything. Sometimes the police can be very aggressive. Some of the nurses are, or have been, married to police officers. Other nurses count police officers as close family members or friends.

By early Friday morning, the Amherst PD had a potential case of motor vehicle homicide on their desk, a case with no car, no driver, and no known witnesses. True, it could have been a case of car surfing gone bad, but that doesn't really change the potential charges a driver would face.

The Amherst and UMass PD's are no dummies. A hit-and-run like this is a fairly major case in Amherst. It was not lost on them that four days later a student with a car in the vicinity of the hit-and-run totally disappears and lo and behold the car is found in New Hampshire with a dent in the front and a spider crack in the windshield. It's pretty unlikely they just threw these facts right out the window.

citigirl wrote:

I have a question for anyone who can answer this please. a police dispatch log would it be considered a legal document?

A legal document in what sense? The way a recorded deed is a legal document? Or the way a map of a proposed bank robbery becomes a legal document at a criminal trial because it's evidence?

looking4amoose wrote:

No, HIPPA would prevent the hospital from giving out any information, but she could have learned of the accident. Does UMass have its own radio station or some other on campus form of communication? Did she get a cell phone call at around that time? Can calls come into the security desk?

Totally correct. Maura could have learned of Vasi's injury as early at 12:30, 12:45 AM, Friday, though WMUA, through her own campus security radio, through the rumor mill, though onlookers when Vasi was picked up, and so on.

But she could not have learned much if anything from Baystate until later Friday morning at the earliest. HIPPA aside, if you've ever spent any time in the EW or ICU at Baystate, you'll know why a phone call inquiring into Vasi's exact condition just after he arrived would just have received no useful answer if it received one at all. If they're too busy, they simply do not even answer the phone.

In reality, any call to any ED/ER these days gets you nothing on status, no matter who you are--it's simply not allowed under HIPPA and basic confidentiality. I directly case manage many adults, and unless my name is specifically on a release of information, then I get no information at all, other than a simple verification that the person has or has not been admitted to the floor. But, the time is certainly coincidental with her crying and Vasi's accident.

Advocator wrote:

Maura was of very good character based on all we know about her, not really the type to cover up wrong-doing. However, she was also young, and suppose she heard something like the following from a dear friend she knew to be a good person:
"He walked right out in front of me, I couldn't avoid hitting him. It was totally an accident and it was mostly his fault - he was probably drunk anyway - but if they find out it was me that hit him, that's the end of my [nursing?] career forever, everything I've worked so hard for ... and I'll be in jail too."
Good kids can sometimes exhibit poor judgment with the best of intentions trying to help out friends.

Good way of making it come alive.

And true enough, but would you not maybe run this by your dad first, considering it's his car and he's liable if the operator cannot be found and if there's a coverup then there's a far greater legal concern? Like you and dad going to jail and facing a really huge settlement?

A hit-and-run is bad enough, a hit-and-run which might become an act of motor vehicle homicide is much worse, but adding a cover-up to all this is risky in the extreme. But it's certainly plausible.

looking4amoose wrote:

In reality, any call to any ED/ER these days gets you nothing on status, no matter who you are--it's simply not allowed under HIPPA and basic confidentiality. I directly case manage many adults, and unless my name is specifically on a release of information, then I get no information at all, other than a simple verification that the person has or has not been admitted to the floor. But, the time is certainly coincidental with her crying and Vasi's accident.

That's correct, Maura or someone close to her would get about nowhere seeking useful information that early. When did HIPPA take effect anyway? My wife had worked in the Baystate ICU for over 16 years when Vasi was admitted, and she was often charge nurse on the weekends and at other times, too. When HIPPA came along, it very unfortunately changed our dinner conversations from how her day went to who won the game. Dang that HIPPA!

BeagleBart wrote:

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Excellent observation. But if it is "less likely that Maura was driving" - and obviously Maura must have been told how the damage to her Saturn (Fred's Saturn, actually) occurred - then who could have relied on Maura to keep quiet about such a serious violation? Would Maura allow her father, as the vehicle's owner, to take the rap for her or for a friend?
If the Saturn hit Vasi, then the driver was able to put Maura - and possibly her father - into some kind of unique bind.
If, for example, Maura said to the police that Jane Doe was driving the Saturn when it hit Vasi, then which Jane Doe could have confidently, without fear of being contradicted, turned right around and told the police, "Maura is lying. Maura was driving the Saturn." How could Maura have denied that she was driving the Saturn? What alibi would she have had?

Maura had only been driving for about 6 months at the time all this occurred (info from the MMM forum), and I'd bet she didn't know that the owner of a vehicle involved in an accident could get into legal trouble even though someone else was driving the vehicle at the time. Also, I'd bet that most -- maybe all -- of her friends also didn't know this little fact.

As to alibi, Maura had her security desk job as an alibi. Supervisors checked the security desk personnel approximately every 20 minutes (according to KMayotte, security supervisor of Maura that night, on the MMM forum). So if Maura did duck out and try to drive somewhere that night, she ran a huge risk of this being discovered.

Also, the entrance to the building where Maura worked was by "key card". These key cards became de-activated at 8:15PM and students had to be buzzed in or otherwise allowed in by someone already inside the building, so if she had left to take a chance and try to run an errand in 20 minutes, someone would have known when she came back because someone else would have had to let her back in.

Advocator wrote:

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As to alibi, Maura had her security desk job as an alibi.

For the next four days, anyway.

BeagleBart, HIPPA took effect 4/13/2003 and from then on it was all downhill. A change designed to make information flow more freely among those involved with payment, treatment and operation, actually set up more enormous road blocks. Here in RI our confidentiality laws are actually more strict that the HIPAA regs, so its that much worse.

BeagleBart wrote:

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A legal document in what sense? The way a recorded deed is a legal document? Or the way a map of a proposed bank robbery becomes a legal document at a criminal trial because it's evidence?

sorry I should have been more specific with what I was looking for. Okay if you have a copy of a police dispatch log and then at a later date recieve a copy of the exact same page of the dispatch log shouldn't both copies have the same info on it? Or is LE allowed to make changes on these logs by adding or taking things out?

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>sorry I should have been more specific with what I was looking for. Okay if you have a copy of a police dispatch log and then at a later date recieve a copy of the exact same page of the dispatch log shouldn't both copies have the same info on it? Or is LE allowed to make changes on these logs by adding or taking things out?

Ahhhhhh. NOW I get it. But I still dunno.