Where is MAURA MURRAY

Citigirl,

I wish I had an answer about the police logs.

Would you please let Helena, Lady Gray, and the Mods know that the links page on MMM.com is very well presented and informative.

I was also pleasantly surprised by the Hanson Express article when I revisited it/re-downloaded it the other day.

Whiston,

With all due respect, Fred was in crisis mode. His daughter had a one car accident and was nowhere to be found. I hardly think Maura's AAA membership, towing reimbursement, and the vehicle itself were much of a priority. Finding Maura was and still is 4+ years later.

Outsider,

Thanks for providing a perspective from a local's point of view. It is the same everywhere regardless of whether or not it is a tiny town such as yours or a large city.

I just happen to have an updated government system that allows me to see first hand that I am surrounded by sex offenders.(3) of whom live within a mile and half of my house are Level III and (2) of these men happen to be a father and son.

The tow truck guy resonated a tremendous amount of dread through me when I read about him very early on and now I know why..........

I also know that it is standard AAA procedure that the member must be with the car when it is towed--which is obviously and sadly not the case with Maura. But clearly this was not where Fred's mind was, and if would bring Maura home, he would gladly pay that price ten times over. I'm sure we all would.

Citigirl, am I to understand you have two copies, each with different information on it?
I know a few people looking at the log published stated it did not make sense. If part of that log had sensitive info, they would have redacted it. That is usually just blacked out. It would make sense for the incident with the minor in Pike just after Maura's accident to be blacked out of the log. It is a legal document and it may not be altered. Dispatch logs are used in Court often.

What are the differences in the two reports?

Below is what I found on the legalities of dispatch logs. It likely does not only apply to Texas, although it is Texas law cited:

Information made confidential by the PIA may not be released, and the release of such
information is a crime. Id.§ 552.352. If the city receives an opinion from the attorney general
that the information is confidential by constitutional or statutory law or by judicial decision, the
city must withhold the information from the public. TEX. GOV’T CODE § 552.101. The
confidential information should be removed or redacted before a document is released. The
governmental entity should remove or redact the confidential information from a copy of the
public document and not from the original, because redacting information from the original
document can lead to criminal penalties for alteration or destruction of a public document.

A note must be made in the redacted copy that it in fact has been redacted to protect confidential information. Here is a NJ Supreme Court ruling on redacted info:

5. Redaction of Information. To the extent that any information is redacted from any
document for any reason, a redaction log of the redacted information that sets forth the
legal basis for the redaction shall be provided to the defendants. If there is a dispute
whether any redacted material qualifies for redaction, counsel may move for a ruling,
which may require an in camera inspection by the Special Master assigned to these
cases of the redacted material on the issue of whether that information is entitled to
redaction.
I might suggest you folks find another attorney if you have brought the dispatch logs by them and they have not known this already.

If I recall, my copy of the long (30-paged or so?) Sheriff's log had obvious cutting and pasting and duplication at the section about Maura. That copy did contain sensitive information about the minor child in trouble, though.

Ad to Ayotte, Ayotte, and Mayotte the silent witness on Lost River Road, named Marrotte (if I've got that one right).

If this is a new discovery, you may have grounds to go back to court to at least obtain the original or have it viewed by a Special Master.
If two reports vary in their info,ie: one stating one thing happened, another stating another thing happened you have very good recourse. It might assure an immediate investigation begin.

um, cutting and pasting?
Goodness, Citigirl, see a GOOD attorney please.
My thought is the dispatch log should be correct in all of the times and info. It should only have the sensitve info redacted with note to where and why.
Cutting and pasting a dispatch log...Geesh, "let's make it fit here, duh, that might make sense."
Sorry, I may be way off base. I haven't looked at it closely. That's just what my first thought was, and I hate when people use duh.

I think posters were aware of the cutting and pasting of the publically released log since the Hansen Express article came out with downloadable documents. I'm sure many people saved copies. When I tried to access it online recently, I was only able to find a ONE-page download. Might be I didn't look in the right place.

Here's a link (search for what Billy says past half-way through) regarding an open bottle of liquor in the Saturn. Earlier on this forum posters who talked about "an open container" were advised they were wrong. Found this pretty fast --- there are probably other articles, too, i know it doesn't make it a fact...
http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/index.ph...

looking4amoose wrote:

BeagleBart, HIPPA took effect 4/13/2003 and from then on it was all downhill. A change designed to make information flow more freely among those involved with payment, treatment and operation, actually set up more enormous road blocks. Here in RI our confidentiality laws are actually more strict that the HIPAA regs, so its that much worse.

There was a provision for it to take effect a year after 2003 for smaller less advanced localities if I remember correctly.

Not only is it a tremendous PIA, but it leads to absolutely retarded situations sometimes.

Bill

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>sorry I should have been more specific with what I was looking for. Okay if you have a copy of a police dispatch log and then at a later date recieve a copy of the exact same page of the dispatch log shouldn't both copies have the same info on it? Or is LE allowed to make changes on these logs by adding or taking things out?

Hold onto your copies citigirl!

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/index.ph...

This linked page talks about witnesses placing Maura "at the car".(But no-one really knows how accurate witness statements are or how many saw her besides Butch, the Westmanns --- and I guess the "silent witness"; no-one knows how a positive ID can be made in the dark at a distance...)

By the way, at the bottom of these links there is a good complition of articles about Maura...

Quija, my thoughts are that alcohol does not make one disappear. Frankly, I don't care if she was trashed out of her mind. The bottom line is "Where is she?" I doubt on a 4 year bender......

Watching, that's true. But doesn't it have some relevance as to how well she might have fought back or been keeping an eye out for an attack; also, maybe judgement about getting into a car with someone.... it could help figure out if one person could have abducted her or if there had to be several, her reaction time to yell, etc. No, I'm not saying that because she had something drink anything that happened is her fault and should not be investigated. It would just be another fact to consider what the circumstances were and match up the right perp(s).

I suspect Atwood did not see the driver well. I suspect the car was unlocked and Smith looked in the car and found Maura's info and asked Atwood to say he saw her better than he did, so that Smith could obtain a search warrant and not get in trouble for searching without a warrant. They were aquaintances after all. Maybe Smith accidentally locked the car door. I know I've done that w/ mine accidentally. Smith's wording on the police report suggest to me that he thought it was a DUI and he intended to prosecute and was seeming to follow all of the necessary steps for prosecutorial sake. This would explain Atwood's many variations of what he actually saw. Likely very little. This would also account for Smith saying he didn't know it was Maura he was looking for in trying to cover his behind and forgetting what he said earlier. That happens when you lie. You sometimes forget. Truth is easy to remember. There is only one, not two stories. That's just my opinion.

I've never cared about that fact because it bears little relevance. One or several abductors, how could an assessment be made reasonably? What if they used a disabling chemical on the rag found? There are many serial killers who do it all alone. We will never know her bac so it is a moot point and doesn't change a thing. How can you state that her bac would lead you to possible perp 1 or possible perp 2,3,4,5,6,7? Do we know perp 1 likes drunk girls, where perp 2 would never touch a drunk girl? Whether drunk or sober, she could have made the decision to flee also. Again, a moot point. Paint her purple w/ stilettos, does it matter?

Watching --- We've been hearing about a gang of killers choosing young college-age men (supposedly) over many states and they target the young men leaving bars. That's one example I can think of off the bat.... Wouldn't facing a possible DUI (or just breaking an open container law, in some states) give a person more impetus to flee and accident? So, it seems you're saying that posters should forget any background info, disregard friends or contacts from Amherst, and just start investigating within a few miles of the snowbank? If you're LE or a private investigator, I guess you know. I thought that the more information you can put together, the better any tragedy can be solved. Plus, as with other tragedies, things can be learned to benefit all. You sounded really agitated there!

looking4amoose wrote:

BeagleBart, HIPPA took effect 4/13/2003 and from then on it was all downhill. A change designed to make information flow more freely among those involved with payment, treatment and operation, actually set up more enormous road blocks. Here in RI our confidentiality laws are actually more strict that the HIPAA regs, so its that much worse.

Thanks for the info about HIPPA. This means my wife, who had worked in the ICU for 16 years and was often charge nurse in the unit during the time Vasi was a patient there, would have been legally restricted from telling me anything about Vasi's condition that wasn't public information. But if she took any suspicious phone calls from people inquiring about Vasi's condition, would HIPPA apply to that as well?

Hey TeagleTart,
Has anyone begun working on the two lists mentioned many pages ago?(1) A list of the plain proven FACTS of this case, and (2) A list of what's acceptable to talk about here without getting slammed? I know of 2 (3, incuding me!) posters who have been "jumped on", 2 chased away -- one, I guess, being Wowser, who announced leaving and who I wish would return.

How in the world did you come to believe that from what I said previously about her bac, intoxicated or sober?
I do for the record think there is a lot of significance just prior to the accident. A few get upset when Maura is presented as intoxicated and this is not my concern. My concern is that it really is a moot point because we will NEVER know her bac, regardless of what happened. People make bad choices while sober every day. Thinking through what possibly happened in every scenario is good, but I find the alcohol question pointless.

Additionally, many questions have been asked about Amherst with no answers. Unless someone comes forward with new info, there are few known facts to go on. Statements collected by media have proven unreliable at best as stated by the "quotees" after the news article is published. A few have stated they were misquoted or misunderstood.