Where is MAURA MURRAY

John wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, if someone attackes me I am going to respond, although from this point forward, I will simply ignore Mason. I apologize that I badly misinterpreted your comment, but beyond that, I don't what else I could have done so I am not sure what there is for me to consider, as you say.

You must not have read this entire forum and that's o.k. I've been attacked time and time again for attempting to stay on topic and focus on the opinions of the experts and the
beliefs of Maura's family hoping that someone out there may know something and do the right thing.

Staying on topic, that's all and ignoring the negativity that can easily suck the life out of you if you let it. I am speaking from experience. There were moments when I walked away from this forum feeling as if I've just survived mortal combat.

It is sad to think that people out there will use something so sacred as a missing persons forum to bring attention to themselves but they do.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

There were moments when I walked away from this forum feeling as if I've just survived mortal combat.

This reminds me of a story in which my friends went to small claims court. The case ahead of them, one of the parties didn't show up, so the other party won without any discussion. So my friend sitting in the back cupped his hands over his mouth and said audibly "Flawless Victory!"
I wasn't there but my friends told me the story.

Maybe a laugh to cheer folks up?

Anne wrote:

Mason, Please tell me we are not into another multiple personality gig? I think I will have to go with Snowy, Tip Toe through the tulips! Besides ever since she brought it up, I cannot stop singing it!

Like a magazine, I've be thumbing thru these posts, back to front, and I've gotten this far. Holy cripes! What happened to the love fest between Mason, John and FireCat on Thurs. nite? It was a reunion!
And now, it's become one big 'pissing contest'(my husband's frequently used phrase - often accurate).

It's really Tim Geitner I was referring to...Mason didn't get it. Tiny Tim Geitner.
But I do remember the original Tiny Tim, which dates me.

As someone said, offline, I think we have a bunch of grumpy old men here. Quik to anger.
One has been dethroned...and perhaps replaced.

Frankly, I am inclined to look suspiciously at anyone who touts his/her credentials or professional accomplishments immodestly. A little sophistication is priceless.

The final tip-off was watching the language content deteriorate. It usually predicts a measure of instability.

Still, there is the matter of multi-personalities.

No one likes being duped.

Advocator wrote:
<quoted text>
Not exactly. What I'm saying is that we've been told by her supervisor that there is no way she could have been out driving and hit Vasi, due to the fact that a supervisor checks the security desks every 20 minutes. That would seem to give Maura an airtight alibi. But we don't know how exact and truthful the supervisor was. We don't know whether they always check the desks every 20 minutes, or whether it is a loosely observed policy that might mean Maura knew the desks really were only checked every 45 minutes.
Based on what we've been told, it would seem Maura would have a solid alibi if someone said she hit Vasi. The problem is, how reliable is the information we've been told about the way things worked re the security desk checks. Like many matters in this case, the closer one looks the fuzzier the information appears to be.
Given the proximity in time of Vasi being hit and Maura becoming virtually hysterical after a phone call roughly 40 - 60 minutes after Vasi was hit ... followed by her sudden departure from UMass a few days later (which basically she seems to have begun planning right after her father went home ... she could not have left before his weekend visit ended, so she left at the earliest possible opportunity)... plus her willingness to drive a car she had not felt safe driving for a while ... plus driving such a distance which she had never done before ...
This is a grouping of several unusual things linked together by a close proximity of time. Whether Maura had an alibi for the Vasi hit or not, it's certainly not a stretch to wonder whether her car was involved.
****
i'd been meaning to comment on this post, though it got buried in all the BS.
anyway, Advocator,your summary makes alot of sense to me (great post! well constructed!)

it suggests only one of many possibilities, but i can hang my hat on this peg, or a variation on this theme.

if disproven, i can alternately believe in the possiblity of abduction...somewhere along the way, or at the car's final destination in NH.

my instinct tells me, for what it's worth, that Maura did not run away, nor did she intend to commit suicide.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>
If the story about the disturbing phone call, received by Maura on late Thursday/early Friday was made public on the ex-MMM site, then it would be a difficult story to believe. Anyone could have made it up.
But if the story, or at least if important parts of it were corroborated by UMass PD or some other LE agency, then that would be very helpful to know.

The story about the disturbing phone call was reported in the newspapers and was checked out by UMass PD who said the call came from a campus phone. They were unable to determine "who" made the call, said that whoever it was had "moved on".
There is some controversy though about the call. Various reports have said it was a call from Maura's sister Kathleen -- well, Kathleen DID call Maura that evening, but earlier ... around 10 PM if I remember right, and their discussion was about a fuss Kathleen was having with her boyfriend -- nothing Kathleen thought would have upset Maura. The supposed phone call that upset Maura, came around 1 AM or between 1 AM and 1:30 AM.
I'm not sure if we know for certain that second call is a fact, but the UMass PD did say the call came from on campus, so it sounds as though there was a second call.

My apologies if this has already been addressed. I read the forum daily but have a pretty shoddy memory, so...

Does anyone know how the rag in the tailpipe was found?

Was it jammed all up inside the pipe or was part of it actually hanging out?

Because if I was trying to prevent a car from starting, I'd shove that thing right up there and worry about getting it out later. Bonus points for making it (almost) invisible.

If part of it was visibly trailing out of the pipe, I'd think it was meant to be seen... or meant to be thought that it was meant to be seen.

I realize this is a minute detail but it occured to me as I was reading the last day's posts.

Thanks.

Food for thought

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/...

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
The story about the disturbing phone call was reported in the newspapers and was checked out by UMass PD who said the call came from a campus phone. They were unable to determine "who" made the call, said that whoever it was had "moved on".
There is some controversy though about the call. Various reports have said it was a call from Maura's sister Kathleen -- well, Kathleen DID call Maura that evening, but earlier ... around 10 PM if I remember right, and their discussion was about a fuss Kathleen was having with her boyfriend -- nothing Kathleen thought would have upset Maura. The supposed phone call that upset Maura, came around 1 AM or between 1 AM and 1:30 AM.
I'm not sure if we know for certain that second call is a fact, but the UMass PD did say the call came from on campus, so it sounds as though there was a second call.

If they didn't know who made the call how would they know then that the person moved on?
Didn't Maura's sister also say that she took sleeping pills to help her sleep and didn't remember a second call to Maura? Why didn't she just say that no she only talked to her once instead of mentioning the sleeping pills and that she didn't remember another call?

This forum is for:


Maura Murray....Maura Murray....Maura Murray

Maura.....Maura....Maura....Ma ura...Maura

Stop the BS, go argue somewhere else, you have contaminated this forum.

Really now..Peter

Benjamin Franklyne wrote:

<quoted text>
I hope your 2nd to last paragraph finds its way through the brick wall shielding the brain of half the people of this forum, who illogically believe that she "wanted" to run away. Regardless of how you explain it to them, their brain is not designed in a way in which they would be able to comprehend the same level of reasoning that many others have attained. For examples, see "propaganda firetruck" and his laughable posts around the post #8222 area.
Even if, for arguments sake, she did intend to run away, there are absolutely no conceivable circumstances (that make sense) that exist on this planet which would have Maura ending up with her car crashed on the side of a road in the middle of New Hampshire wilderness on a cold February night. If she intended to run away forever (which she didn't), something obviously went drastically wrong along that ride.
There is a psychological science attributed to why some people feel the need to come into a forum and share their incompetent, irrational thoughts about a woman they've never met with people they don't know, and it is directly related to self-esteem and self-image. They subconsciously desire the appeasement and approval of others, wanting them to say "OMG! You solved it you genius! You're so smart! You figured out the missing piece!"

The fact that you are still convinced that I had any intention towards solving this case is laughable in itself.

John wrote:

<quoted text>
PART ONE
Johnny B.,
Thanks for this thoughtful post. I see the merits of your points, but I don't agree with them all. There are easily conceivable scenarios in which they want witnesses to a staged accident. In my thinking over this matter, I am increasingly persuaded that Maura was the victim of a wrong place at the wrong time crime. There is a lot of crime and a lot of sex offenders in that area, at least on a per capita basis. The intriguing issue for me is what the hell was she doing there. Although Anne and Suzanne have raised reasonable points to the contrary, I still believe that given all of her KNOWN possible destinations (Stowe, Burlington, Bartlett) and given that beyond speculation there are no other conceivable destinations that put her on 112 East, the most intriguing issue is simply why was she there at this place at so wrong a time. In this vein, I think some of Beagle's contributions (when shorn of his self-aggrandizing conspiracy rantings) have merit.
SEE PART 2

John,
This guy from Tampa, FL has been working to fulfill his psychological need to continue a vendetta against me and a few others on this forum for quite some time now. I find it remarkably funny that he calls me psychologically disturbed when in fact it appears his entire well-being is contingent upon calling me names and making me sound like an idiot. It really doesn't matter if I am an idiot, a genius, a paranoid schizo, or the perfect example of samadhi in the flesh. Furthermore, I am not trying to solve the case and I never had that intention. Like you and many others here, I just came to share my thoughts and learn more because I was genuinely interested in the case and then it just stuck with me. I don't try to hide behind empty and deceitful rhetoric and I don't spread lies. I try to say things carefully so that people know I am not passing off opinions as fact. Lastly, I don't care who agrees with me and who does not. It doesn't matter. However, as long as I feel that I can contribute to conversation I will likely continue to post here. But the truth here is that I am not as stupid or deceitful as Tampa, FL makes me out to be. He has some REAL problems, and if you look through his cloak you will probably be able to tell who and what he is.

Staging is when someone purposefully alters the crime scene prior to the arrival of the police. There are two reasons why someone employs staging: to redirect the investigation away from the most logical suspect or to protect the victim or the victim’s family.

Below are some footnotes I came across in my reading.

The comment that staged crime scenes occur regularly comes from this author’s experience with staged crime scenes in his own work, which primarily involves rapes and homicides. It also comes from conversations this author has had with fellow investigators and forensic scientists in the preparation of this study. It is not meant to suggest that staged crime scenes occur frequently. However, they do happen often enough to merit our attention.

Precautionary acts are behaviors committed by an offender before, during, or after an offense, and consciously intended to confuse, hamper, or defeat investigative or forensic efforts for the purposes of concealing their identity, their connection to the crime, or the crime itself. It is a general term, inclusive of many different types of actions that may be taken by an offender. Staging, for example, is a type of precautionary act.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

<quoted text>
You must not have read this entire forum and that's o.k. I've been attacked time and time again for attempting to stay on topic and focus on the opinions of the experts and the
beliefs of Maura's family hoping that someone out there may know something and do the right thing.
Staying on topic, that's all and ignoring the negativity that can easily suck the life out of you if you let it. I am speaking from experience. There were moments when I walked away from this forum feeling as if I've just survived mortal combat.
It is sad to think that people out there will use something so sacred as a missing persons forum to bring attention to themselves but they do.

Well, on that, I agree with you. In any forum, however, there will be disagreements and staying on topic, as you say, is a matter of resolving them. That said, you cannot resolve disagreements reasonably with someone who is out of balance and motivated by forces such as those you point out. Hence, going forward, my intent is to ignore Mason. My apologies again for the incorrect shot at you.

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
Like a magazine, I've be thumbing thru these posts, back to front, and I've gotten this far. Holy cripes! What happened to the love fest between Mason, John and FireCat on Thurs. nite? It was a reunion!
And now, it's become one big 'pissing contest'(my husband's frequently used phrase - often accurate).
It's really Tim Geitner I was referring to...Mason didn't get it. Tiny Tim Geitner.
But I do remember the original Tiny Tim, which dates me.
As someone said, offline, I think we have a bunch of grumpy old men here. Quik to anger.
One has been dethroned...and perhaps replaced.
Frankly, I am inclined to look suspiciously at anyone who touts his/her credentials or professional accomplishments immodestly. A little sophistication is priceless.
The final tip-off was watching the language content deteriorate. It usually predicts a measure of instability.
Still, there is the matter of multi-personalities.
No one likes being duped.

You seem to be participating in that which you object to. Assuming a neutral posture in name calling does not change the content.

NorthernLight wrote:

My apologies if this has already been addressed. I read the forum daily but have a pretty shoddy memory, so...
Does anyone know how the rag in the tailpipe was found?
Was it jammed all up inside the pipe or was part of it actually hanging out?
Because if I was trying to prevent a car from starting, I'd shove that thing right up there and worry about getting it out later. Bonus points for making it (almost) invisible.
If part of it was visibly trailing out of the pipe, I'd think it was meant to be seen... or meant to be thought that it was meant to be seen.
I realize this is a minute detail but it occured to me as I was reading the last day's posts.
Thanks.

I have been wondering about this myself. Someone posted that it had been theorized the car had been towed becuase the rag may have been to signal to trailing cars that the Saturn was being towed (I never heard of that) and because the Saturn was found in neutral. I agree that if someone was trying to prevent the car from being started, shoving it in completely would make sense. Not sure who said this or what the source is, but I believe it was discovered by the police at the scene. If so, more likely than not that it was hanging out of the tail pipe to some degree.

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
The story about the disturbing phone call was reported in the newspapers and was checked out by UMass PD who said the call came from a campus phone. They were unable to determine "who" made the call, said that whoever it was had "moved on".
There is some controversy though about the call. Various reports have said it was a call from Maura's sister Kathleen -- well, Kathleen DID call Maura that evening, but earlier ... around 10 PM if I remember right, and their discussion was about a fuss Kathleen was having with her boyfriend -- nothing Kathleen thought would have upset Maura. The supposed phone call that upset Maura, came around 1 AM or between 1 AM and 1:30 AM.
I'm not sure if we know for certain that second call is a fact, but the UMass PD did say the call came from on campus, so it sounds as though there was a second call.

Thanks Advocator. Maura lived on campus correct, so it could have come from a guest in her room?

My sincere apologies to everyone, except John, the pompous and pretentious pretend lawyer who has posted non-stop BS without bothering to familiarize himself with the case.

I took him to task to expose him for the fraud that he is and to chase him away. I have no doubt that I made some of you uncomfortable, but I cleared the air.

I'm rather pleased with myself for getting rid of him.

Fred

Oops, spoke too soon.

Your move, sport.

Fred

propaganda firetruck wrote:

<quoted text>
John,
This guy from Tampa, FL has been working to fulfill his psychological need to continue a vendetta against me and a few others on this forum for quite some time now. I find it remarkably funny that he calls me psychologically disturbed when in fact it appears his entire well-being is contingent upon calling me names and making me sound like an idiot. It really doesn't matter if I am an idiot, a genius, a paranoid schizo, or the perfect example of samadhi in the flesh. Furthermore, I am not trying to solve the case and I never had that intention. Like you and many others here, I just came to share my thoughts and learn more because I was genuinely interested in the case and then it just stuck with me. I don't try to hide behind empty and deceitful rhetoric and I don't spread lies. I try to say things carefully so that people know I am not passing off opinions as fact. Lastly, I don't care who agrees with me and who does not. It doesn't matter. However, as long as I feel that I can contribute to conversation I will likely continue to post here. But the truth here is that I am not as stupid or deceitful as Tampa, FL makes me out to be. He has some REAL problems, and if you look through his cloak you will probably be able to tell who and what he is.

Well, thanks for your post, but here out I am staying out of the personal battles and name calling that people throw at each other here and that I got sucked into yesterday. Nearly EVERYONE here does it, even those annoying folks who CLAIM to be rising above the fray, while in the same breath they are doing the same thing. So, here out, I am just culling through and looking for the substance and disregarding the battles. No offense intended, but best wishes.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

Staging is when someone purposefully alters the crime scene prior to the arrival of the police. There are two reasons why someone employs staging: to redirect the investigation away from the most logical suspect or to protect the victim or the victim’s family.
Below are some footnotes I came across in my reading.
The comment that staged crime scenes occur regularly comes from this author’s experience with staged crime scenes in his own work, which primarily involves rapes and homicides. It also comes from conversations this author has had with fellow investigators and forensic scientists in the preparation of this study. It is not meant to suggest that staged crime scenes occur frequently. However, they do happen often enough to merit our attention.
Precautionary acts are behaviors committed by an offender before, during, or after an offense, and consciously intended to confuse, hamper, or defeat investigative or forensic efforts for the purposes of concealing their identity, their connection to the crime, or the crime itself. It is a general term, inclusive of many different types of actions that may be taken by an offender. Staging, for example, is a type of precautionary act.

Following on these concepts, it seems that tihngs come back again to the rag in the tail pipe (at least for me). If it was hanging out in a manner consistent with the idea that it was there to signal towing, then the suggestion of towing is unmistakeable, given that fact and the fact (which I have seen posted here) that hte car was an automatic and found in neutral. Given that nobody seems to have reported a tow truck being seen anywhere, even those neighbors who looked outside upon hearing the thump, there is some further possible suggestion of staging. Seems doubtful (based on what I do know about Maura, which admittedly is incomplete) that she would so stage a scene like that. Once again, in thinking through what is known or reasonably speculated, I keep coming back to the possibility that she was in the car with another person.