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Where is MAURA MURRAY

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Suzanne

Walpole, MA

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#15702
Mar 1, 2009
 
quija wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess I missed your post! Sorry! I just read a chapter about him this week in a book (James Renner, again) of cold cases. I attribute my getting interested in this case to you and me being on the same wavelength!
There are some ideas I came up with that have been repeated as if they were something new! PLUS --- I've worked with the ideas of OTHERS until I forgot where they originated and treated them like my own!
I absolutely and firmly believe that Ray Gricar did not 'run away to start a new life' as some people on his forum have suggested. Ray was a happy and content man, very good relationship with his fiance Patti Fornicola, loved his daughter Lara, no money problems, looking forward to retirement in 3 months. He and Patti had plans to travel when he retired, he was in good health, everything was fine. The circumstances of his disappearance are truly bizarre. He just disappeared into thin air. A true mystery.
sophie bean

Monkton, VT

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#15703
Mar 1, 2009
 
Lady Gray, we are quite a team!

While I'm sort of on the subject, can anyone fill me in about any "accidental deaths" within 50 miles of Swiftwater that may not be so accidental - like Pauline Clark's? Thank you.
Beagle

Amherst, MA

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#15704
Mar 1, 2009
 

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Maybe the large dent in the car's front was made from a clam shell?
Beagle

Amherst, MA

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#15705
Mar 1, 2009
 
looking4amoose wrote:
<quoted text>OK--so apparently they know who called at the security desk, why she was so upset and why she left there then. Right?
Seems like.

If the FBI and the UMass PD discovered all the relevant information available in Amherst, and if the family were so satisfied with the joint (local/federal) investigation, then what else can be done by looking at Amherst?
Suzanne

Walpole, MA

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#15706
Mar 1, 2009
 
Today's New York Times has an interesting piece on Hannah Upp. Someone here thought this is what may have happened to Maura.
mcsmom

Marlborough, CT

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#15708
Mar 1, 2009
 

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The following, while needs to be reconfirmed is how I recall the phone call scenario.

10:20 pm approx phone call from Kathleen Thursday night.

12:20 approx phone call location determined by UMASS. Caller not identified.

Just prior to Maura leaving on the 9th a voice mail left on Maura's dorm phone from another dorm phone, determined by UMASS, this call was investigated according to reports. And I believe LE referred to this person as having "moved on".

1:24pm on Friday the 9 Maura sent emails to professors indicating she
was headed home due to a death in the family.

Will reconfirm this tomorrow.
Beagle

Amherst, MA

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#15709
Mar 1, 2009
 
"Pro-abortion operatives already get money trafficking in aborted baby parts, and
presumably even more money can come from bigger, less fragile baby parts left over by
infanticide. Singer's views could help set the tone for such a parts industry quickly,
which pro-aborts desire before some genetic engineers mass-market their newfound skills
growing human parts in petri dishes and as grotesque appendages on cows and mice."

Above from: http://www.nhrtl.org/pac/2001/NHRTLPAC-PR-010...
mcsmom

Marlborough, CT

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#15710
Mar 1, 2009
 
sorry, Monday the 9th, not Friday.
Beagle

Amherst, MA

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#15711
Mar 1, 2009
 
Why couldn't the front of the car have collided with a clam shell? It's easy enough to run into one or have one run into your vehicle if the operater of either is not paying close attention. Normally, if not in use, the clam shell is tucked up tight, but with Rt. 112 being so bumpy, maybe it was going up and down like they often do.

One almost hit me a few weeks ago as I was driving along because the operator obviously didn't see me as he backed out of a driveway.

And that was pretty near the curve on 112.
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#15712
Mar 1, 2009
 
Chilling Thoughts

I was shocked when I read the entry on the Maine.gov website describing the condition of Pamela Webb's body when it was discovered only 17 days after she disappeared. This sentence produced chills, and I don't shock easily.

"No bones below the pelvis were found with the remains."

The visual image that sentence produced is unpleasant, but that isn't what disturbed me. My immediate thought was the killer removed her lower body to prevent the possibility that he might be identified by DNA testing. This would indicate that he had sexual intercourse with her either before or after she died and possibly both. The latter possibility, if true, indicates a serial killer who was quite advanced in his mental sickness and this means Pamela Webb was not his first victim. He'd been killing for a long time to reach this state.

But the truly disquieting realization is the use of DNA testing to solve crimes was still in its infancy in 1989 and had been used in only a handful of cases. If the killer's motive was to prevent DNA identification, he was intelligent and very well informed on the latest developments in forensic analysis. This also indicates a well organized serial killer who regarded raping and killing as his profession.

After I reread the quote, I realized that the killer did not remove the pelvis, so it's possible that I gave him too much credit for brains. But maybe not, because he may have removed her internal reproductive organs to prevent subsequent DNA identification and the medical examiner might not have realized they were removed due to the advanced state of decomposition. Even if the killer did not remove them and only removed the legs, flies would have laid their eggs in those wounds and the maggot infestation and consumption of the soft tissues in the lower body would have been accelerated considerably accomplishing the same purpose.

I doubt wild animals, as opposed to the killer, removed the legs from the torso, although I can't say for certain. I will defer to a qualified forensic pathologist to make that determination. If the killer removed the legs or cut them off, he probably did it because, at the very least, he understood that flies lay their eggs in open wounds and that's where the maggots will start feasting when they hatch from the eggs.

Unless these circumstances were caused by wild animals, I believe the person who killed Pamela Webb was an intelligent, organized, well informed, and experienced serial killer who approached killing as though it were his profession.

I'd sure like to know why her tire was flat and I hope the police in Maine still have the tire to examine, if they didn't examine it and determine the cause in 1989. Unless I'm mistaken, this guy would have been quite capable of starting a slow leak in the tire and following her at a discreet distance until the tire went flat and she had to pull over and stop.

Given Detective Columbo's recent disclosure about the Saturn's flat tire, I think y'all can understand why reading up on Pamela Webb's murder is so disturbing. If this guy was a pro in 1989. imagine how much more accomplished he would have been in 2004, or even today.

One area in which he likely would have improved his game is concealing the bodies of his victims so that they will not be found. This does not augur well for discovering Maura's remains, if the same person killed Pamela Webb and Maura Murray.

I hope the PIs know when and how the tire on the Saturn went flat. If they don't, they need to find out ASAP.

Fred
elsewherebriefly

Shallotte, NC

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#15713
Mar 1, 2009
 
Re: Boston

The infamous 1996 Swedish nanny murder: The city was shocked and horrified when the upper half of 19-year-old Karina Holmer’s body was found by a trash picker in a garbage bin in the Fenway. Police never recovered the rest of her body.
elsewherebriefly

Shallotte, NC

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#15714
Mar 1, 2009
 
On June 24, 1989 Human body parts found; homicide probe launched

The unidentified remains were found off of a rest stop on Route 78 in Warwick, MA, just 1 mile from the New Hampshire border. The parts were originally thought to be from a man in his 30s (most newspapers reported this) but later studies suggested that the parts are actually from a woman. She was white, approximately 5'5" and "robust".

WARWICK, MA - Police have failed to find the head and torso belonging with human remains discovered Saturday off Route 78, but have uncovered two headless animal carcasses nearby. Northwestern District Attorney Judd Carhart said, "We don't have much information yet, but we can say we have a homicide."

... State and local police yesterday continued to search 1 1/2 miles of dense woods between the site and the New Hampshire border. Roberts acknowledged the remains were cut away from the rest of the human body, but declined to comment whether they had been surgically removed. He discounted the possibility of animals ripping away the head and torso.
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#15715
Mar 1, 2009
 

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EB,

I saw your message when I finished reposting my messages on the other site.

This is terrifying and sickening.

I don't know what else to say. I know I can't sleep.

Thanks, for letting me know so quickly. I mean it. I'm not being sarcastic.

This is like finding out the boogeyman really exists.

Tred
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#15716
Mar 1, 2009
 
EB,

RE: the remains found near the rest stop on Route 78 in Warwick on June 24, 1989.

Pamela Webb disappeared on July 1, 1989.

Do you know if those remains have been matched up to a missing person?

Fred
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#15717
Mar 1, 2009
 
Reminds me of Jack the Ripper.
peripeteia
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#15718
Mar 2, 2009
 
mcsmom wrote:
The following, while needs to be reconfirmed is how I recall the phone call scenario.
10:20 pm approx phone call from Kathleen Thursday night.
12:20 approx phone call location determined by UMASS. Caller not identified.
Just prior to Maura leaving on the 9th a voice mail left on Maura's dorm phone from another dorm phone, determined by UMASS, this call was investigated according to reports. And I believe LE referred to this person as having "moved on".
1:24pm on Friday the 9 Maura sent emails to professors indicating she
was headed home due to a death in the family.
Will reconfirm this tomorrow.
mscmom:

the phone call that cannot be traced to a person because they likely moved on was the phone call Maura received on Thursday night, just after midnight at 0040,(fri. morning) It has never been stated where this phone call came from but that it was from a campus phone, allegedly the location is known.

the dorm to dorm call on Monday, and voice message left for Maura, this is news to me, and
law enforcement would have the caller on tape, and would know which dorm it came from.

Monday's call I thought was Maura leaving a message from her cell phone re: returning clothing to classmate that she had borrowed.

the last sighting of Maura is also confusing

Joined: Jun 10, 2008

Comments: 390

Woonsocket, RI

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#15719
Mar 2, 2009
 
Beagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems like.
If the FBI and the UMass PD discovered all the relevant information available in Amherst, and if the family were so satisfied with the joint (local/federal) investigation, then what else can be done by looking at Amherst?
Ummm....publish the answers as to why she left Amherst?
quija

Concord, MA

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#15720
Mar 2, 2009
 

Judged:

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Someone would have had to have had a lot of experience to puncture the tire (or remove the cap and wedge something against the valve) to have control over how quickly the tire would deflate --- over a slow leak. IMHO. Others here might know more about this. Now, if Maura pulled in somewhere about a mile away (or had a first accident), that would be a perfect spot for a perp to cut her tire right before she went on her way, creating a FASTER leak that would force her to stop within a mile?

Mason, you're right --- that tire better have been examined closely --- and IMO before it sat outside for years.... If the tire was tampered with, wouldn't it have been taken into evidence?

“ Good B chillaxin - TY Scott”

Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Comments: 1128

Gloucester, MA

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#15721
Mar 2, 2009
 
as in marketing, just because you or i like it doesn't mean it will sell. each of us has a preference in buying a theory.

i find it hard to stretch my personal beliefs to include serial killers and/or people who run away to start a new life.

abduction/kidnapping/homicide by chance or intent are more probable and realistic in my mind.

with my new-found respect for you, Mason,(you're totally forgiven for telling me to STFU - arrgh, fighting words!), the gate in my mind is slightly opened to the possibilities of exploring the historical remnants of potential serial killers. barely.

about Gricar, Quija....i followed briefly, as we lived around Philly for a few years....we see possibilities A & B.
****

“Someone got rid of him,” says Karl Rudeen, the one in the blue cap.“Everyone he put in jail has a motive. Take a number, get in line. He was killed for what was on that computer.”

“Now hold on,” says Ron Denker, a skinny fellow in a red flannel button-down, his white hair slicked back against his skull.“The man took an early vacation. Started a new life somewhere. I’ve thought about doing it. Everyone has. And he knew how to do it, because that was his business.”
****

anyone's guess. right?
same with Maura.

regardless of the method of disappearances/abductions/homi cide, i see two critical pieces:

1) the prompt/motivation for Maura's leaving Amherst, if she did
and
2) where to look for her between Amherst and NH

duh - for me.

i really like WTF/Bill's attempting to define a search area...rule in/rule out and narrow the options according to what is known....if i understand him correctly. that's pretty exciting.

“ Good B chillaxin - TY Scott”

Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Comments: 1128

Gloucester, MA

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#15722
Mar 2, 2009
 
unclear statement....

"abduction/kidnapping/hom icide by chance or intent are more probable and realistic in my mind."

rather

abduction/kidnapping/homicide BY CHANCE OR OPPORTUNITY are more probable and realistic in my mind than a serial killer's intercepting Maura on her rare trip north.
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