Where is MAURA MURRAY

Here's the rules on canada entry and exit from/to the US:

Canadian law requires that all persons entering Canada carry both proof of citizenship and proof of identity. A valid U.S. passport, passport card or NEXUS card (see below) satisfies these requirements for U.S. citizens. If U.S. citizen travelers to Canada do not have a passport, passport card or approved alternate document such as a NEXUS card, they must show a government-issued photo ID (e.g. Driver’s License) and proof of U.S. citizenship such as a U.S. birth certificate, naturalization certificate, or expired U.S. passport. Children under sixteen need only present proof of U.S. citizenship.

It is very important to note that all Americans traveling to the U.S. by air, including from Canada, must present a valid U.S. passport to enter or re-enter the U.S. Effective June 1, 2009, a similar requirement goes into effect for entry into the U.S. via land and sea borders. All Americans will need to present a U.S. passport, passport card, NEXUS card, Enhanced Drivers License or other Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI)-compliant document in order to enter the U.S. by land or sea. American travelers are urged to obtain WHTI-compliant documents before entering Canada well in advance of their planned travel.

So its easy to get in, but will become more difficult to get out. Maybe Maura just can't get out!?(sorry little humor on a bright sunny warm saturday morning)

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
You know, a thought popped into my mind this afternoon...road rage.

Though my reasoning to follow was less specific to the final location of the Saturn in NH than Mason's and EWB's trail to linking with Nickolau and Webb...I continue to support a random/opportunistic occurrence of abduction along Marua's presumed route of travel. By my post at #8884/p. 442, it is known such abductions do occur at random.

That said, I remain skeptical and less convinced of the potential for Mason's/EWB's synching up the concept of serial killing, specific to Nickolau and the Webb murder.

Whether Maura's tire was found flattened at the scene where her car was located in NH is a critical piece of information, as Mason suggests, and must already be known to LE.

Mason's/EWB' developpment of such a theory "works" only if it is tweaked to "fit" what little is known about Maura's travel that day.
More importantly, IMO, it is completely unknown to us whether Maura even traveled from Amherst to NH that day, and/or when he travel might have been interrupted.

I conclude that while this is a working theory, it is nearly as extreme in its connectivity to Maura as Beagle's theories involving a chain of associations in and around Amherst.

Until she is found, one idea is as plausible as the next. It's too early to be in celebratory mode.

Beagle wrote:

Towns with W

For 200... What is Weathersfield?

Benjamin Franklyne wrote:

<quoted text>
For 200... What is Weathersfield?

there is a Wethersfield, CT

Dec 6, 2008
WTF-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no idea what happened one second after she disappeared from that site. She could have been murdered/kidnapped/ran away anything from one second after she disappeared to a year after. Based upon the information that I have read and re-read ad-nauseum I am absolutely sure we are not going to figure this out until something new about Maura shows up.
The best I can hope to do is to try to keep out totally erroneous information and maybe help (to the limit of my ability) when something that has been gone over a thousand times before is talked about, which is most stuff.
Bill
**********

Worth re-posting. I concur.

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
there is a Wethersfield, CT

Snowy,

This is a map of the different towns in CT.

http://www.ct.gov/ecd/LIB/ecd/20/14/townmap.p...

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
there is a Wethersfield, CT

Its right in the middle of CT. Next to Rocky Hill & Hartford.

Beagle - Waltham Watch on the Charles River, Fernald State School, Woburn and companies that tanned hides... I've lived right by them all; also worked at a day program with adolescents from state schools like Fernald, Lowell, etc. Horrors have been committed against the innocent throughout history. That is why I'm not a great fan of humans in general, nor life on earth. Sadly, I'm serious. We can't get away from evil. The only way to "keep on" and to live with ourselves is to be part of fighting evil. I'm doing it in my little corner of the world, and I think most posters here are doing the same, probably more.
CLINICALS AT NORWOOD HOSPITAL
Referring to various posts from yesterday about Maura's clinicals-commuting friend... I understood that this girl did currently reside in the Norwood, MA area. The night that there was bad winter driving "she" and Maura stayed at "Maura's friend's friend's" apartment near Norwood Hospital. I believe the clinicals friend lived at UMass.
Of course, this is from family, family-to-be, etc. on the old MM sites. NOW we don't even know for sure that Maura was still registered at UMass for spring semester.... we don't know that she had taken enough nursing classes to even HAVE clinicals.... we don't know that in 2004 there WERE clinicals assigned to UMass AMHERST students at Norwood Hospital. Helena, IIRC, said that the clinicals commuting friend lived in Amherst. Sharon and/or Helena IIRC said that IT WAS NOT SCRUBS THAT MAURA RETURNED, it was regular clothing that Maura borrowed because of unexpectedly staying overnight in the Norwood area the night of a storm. IIRC Maura returned these laundered clothes to the other girl's room, which I understood to be a dorm room.
It seems that our collective knowledge of FACTS is SHRINKING.

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
That said, I remain skeptical and less convinced of the potential for Mason's/EWB's synching up the concept of serial killing, specific to Nickolau and the Webb murder.

Snowy White,

Please do not put words into my mouth.

I believe Pamela Webb's and the Boston Nanny's gruesome murders are related. Did I ever say I believed Nicholaou was responsible? No. I believe Pamela Webb's & the Boston Nanny's murders are related and the person responsible was someone with an LE background with knowledge of trace evidence and forensics.

I brought up the other partial set of human remains found in Warwick, MA because it was a case of the same nature re: dismemberment.

I brought up a case of (2) women being abducted, murdered and dismembered here in Wilmington, North Carolina which has been confirmed by FBI experts that the (2) murders were serial killings.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

<quoted text>
Snowy White,
Please do not put words into my mouth.
I believe Pamela Webb's and the Boston Nanny's gruesome murders are related. Did I ever say I believed Nicholaou was responsible? No. I believe Pamela Webb's & the Boston Nanny's murders are related and the person responsible was someone with an LE background with knowledge of trace evidence and forensics.
I brought up the other partial set of human remains found in Warwick, MA because it was a case of the same nature re: dismemberment.
I brought up a case of (2) women being abducted, murdered and dismembered here in Wilmington, North Carolina which has been confirmed by FBI experts that the (2) murders were serial killings.

Then I must be confused...becasuse the inference drawn one from the next to the next...and connected by Mason's sequential postings on the "new" site lead one to believe that such information both relates to Maura's disappearance, AND that the information has been placed in the hands of NH LE to consider.
The congratulatory post from Mason to you is undeniable.
There are my impressions, only as an observer...and without a knowledge base of following this and other disappearances/murders over an extended period of time.

I am not denying that the potential for any connection should not be considered, nor that is it unreasonable to explore...I just can't think "out of the box" enough to believe that Maura came upon a serial killer on her way to NH? VT? or whatever her destination.

Each time scrubs are mentioned, I wonder why they would have needeed to be "returned" so immediately, if borrowed.
Does each student not have more than one set of scrubs either issued or available to them?
From whom did this entire line of thinking originate?

Someone bent on suicide often makes final gestures to close loose ends before attempting to take one's life. I wonder if the original source of this information intentionally or unintentionally meant to leave this impression about Maura and the scrubs?

Turanna wrote:

<quoted text>
Snowy,
This is a map of the different towns in CT.
http://www.ct.gov/ecd/LIB/ecd/20/14/townmap.p...

Thanks. I was just answering BF's question. It is very near my home town.

It wasn't scrubs, it was borrowed clothing returned to the student.

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
Though my reasoning to follow was less specific to the final location of the Saturn in NH than Mason's and EWB's trail to linking with Nickolau and Webb...I continue to support a random/opportunistic occurrence of abduction along Marua's presumed route of travel. By my post at #8884/p. 442, it is known such abductions do occur at random.
That said, I remain skeptical and less convinced of the potential for Mason's/EWB's synching up the concept of serial killing, specific to Nickolau and the Webb murder.
Whether Maura's tire was found flattened at the scene where her car was located in NH is a critical piece of information, as Mason suggests, and must already be known to LE.
Mason's/EWB' developpment of such a theory "works" only if it is tweaked to "fit" what little is known about Maura's travel that day.
More importantly, IMO, it is completely unknown to us whether Maura even traveled from Amherst to NH that day, and/or when he travel might have been interrupted.
I conclude that while this is a working theory, it is nearly as extreme in its connectivity to Maura as Beagle's theories involving a chain of associations in and around Amherst.
Until she is found, one idea is as plausible as the next. It's too early to be in celebratory mode.

I'm inclined to celebrate as often as possible because I'm a party boy and it's fun and raises my spirits. I haven't claimed anything other than we've developed enough evidence to justify LE expediting the crime lab's DNA analysis of the human remains recovered in Warwick and comparing the result to the DNA profile they have on record for Michelle Nicholaou. Incremental perhaps, but still progress.
I think they'll get a match. We should know who is right sometime in the not too distant future, I hope.
Fred

Maura's disappearance may be due to an opportunistic encounter with a serial killer who got lucky or it may not. The location of the accident is much more remote than the location where Webb was abducted on the Maine Turnpike. All I'm saying is that it's more probable that the Saturn was sabotaged when she stopped for gas by the person who abducted her -- assuming she was abducted.

I believe Maura drove the Saturn up north and she was driving it when the accident happened because I haven't been able to explain certain facts like (1) who drove the Saturn, if not Maura; (2) who did the SBD talk to at the accident scene, if it wasn't Maura; (3) who returned the scrubs to the student nurse, if not Maura; (4) who used Maura's computer to gather information on places to stay, if not Maura; (5) who accessed the ATM, if not Maura; who bought the booze, if not Maura; (6) who would have agreed and why would she have agreed to pretend to be Maura doing all those things; and (7) if some woman agreed to do all of those things to help someone else back in Amherst get rid of Maura, why didn't that person pick her up before the SBD arrived? I haven't been able to come up with a plausible theory that provides satisfactory answers to those questions.

However and whenever the Saturn reached the friendly confines of Haverhill and its environs, someone crashed or placed it where it was found and someone was there to be seen by the Westmans and talk to the SBD. If not Maura, who was that person?

Beagle has developed a fascinating theory regarding a possible motive to abduct Maura, but a motive doesn't mean it happened.

The possible connection between Nicholaou and Maura that I've been exploring is certainly thin, but it's based on the available evidence (1) that he was a serial killer; (2) that he killed and dismembered Michelle Nicholaou; (3) that he killed Pamela Webb after abducting her from the scene of her disabled vehicle on the Maine Turnpike, dismembered her, and disposed of her remains at a location within 15 miles of the location where Maura disappeared,(4) that he was familiar with the area where Maura disappeared; and (5) that he may have been in the area when Maura disappeared -- visiting friends who assisted him to kill Barbara Agnew and dispose of her body.

It remains to be seen if LE has or can develop evidence that supports or refutes the theory. All I'm saying is that it merits serious consideration and an expenditure of effort and resources to confirm or deny it.

This theory provides a new perspective and set of possibilities to check-out and for me that's reason enough for a mini celebration before moving on to consider Lovie's possible connection. Sorry, but I forgot his last name.

BTW, I agree with EB's point that the person responsible in the Swedish Nanny case is responsible for killing Webb.

NOTICE -- EARLY CELEBRATION ALERT -- NOTICE

I will be celebrating when LE confirms that the remains found in Warwick are Michele Nicholaou's.

To be clear, I'm not saying that I hope she's dead. I'm presuming she is because she wouldn't have abandoned her children. Confirmation of her death hopefully will remove any existing doubt her kids (now adults) may have that she abandoned them and allow them to move forward with their lives.

Fred

Snowy White wrote:

Each time scrubs are mentioned, I wonder why they would have needeed to be "returned" so immediately, if borrowed.
Does each student not have more than one set of scrubs either issued or available to them?
From whom did this entire line of thinking originate?
Someone bent on suicide often makes final gestures to close loose ends before attempting to take one's life. I wonder if the original source of this information intentionally or unintentionally meant to leave this impression about Maura and the scrubs?

I think the first time I read about the scrubs was when I was reading Scarinza's statement and he mentioned it as a suicide indicator along with her possessions packed up in boxes stacked on her bed.

I specifically recall it being mentioned as a suicide indicator.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
I think the first time I read about the scrubs was when I was reading Scarinza's statement and he mentioned it as a suicide indicator along with her possessions packed up in boxes stacked on her bed.
I specifically recall it being mentioned as a suicide indicator.

Thanks, Mason.

Elsewherebriefly and I have reached different conclusions regarding the identity of the person who killed Pamela Webb in 1989, and the Swedish Nanny in 1996. We agree that the same person is responsible because both bodies were dismembered and that's unusual enough to support a belief that the same person is responsible.

I suspect Michael Nicholaou committed both crimes, but she disagrees. I've presented my theory here and on the new site. I'm not certain why she disagrees, but I'm sure she has reasons.

I thanked her for suggesting that Michelle Nicholaou is the source of the human remains found in Warwick. I followed-up on her suggestion and found enough evidence to cause me to conclude that her suggestion is correct and will be confirmed with DNA testing. So, I thanked her.

I'm not sure if she believes Michelle Nicholaou is the source of the remains because her suggestion was based on something she read on a missing person blog.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm very grateful that she mentioned Michelle Nicholaou because that gave me a place to start looking. I'm not saying she told me that she believed or was certain that the remains were Michelle's.

If any credit comes my way for pointing LE in the right direction, I want EB to share in it even if she is skeptical about the conclusion I reached.

I hope this message clears up any misunderstandings that I created.

Fred

whiston wrote:

Maura Murray Vanished [text deleted] When i emailed the coach she did not know who Maura was.I am not saying any of this to trash Maura. The truth is good .philip

The truth is good??? You're not saying any of this to trash Maura???

You obviously aren't as good as researching facts as you think you are....

THIS is the problem I have with postings such as your's. You type your postings as if what you say is fact. It isn't. It's misleading. But you put yourself out there as if you're an expert.

You say Maura never ran a race while at UMass-Amherst? You say you talked to a coach who didn't know of Maura? Did you ever consider that you spoke with someone who maybe didn't WANT to talk to you and it was easier to say she didn't know Maura? Or maybe she truly didn't; however, the point is, if you would do YOUR research in the expert manner that you portray yourself, you would find race results for Maura.......I found them. Why couldn't you? Didn't spend the time? Easier to post bullshit? Easier to further victimize a victim? Just what are your intentions here?

Don't mean to trash Maura? Here are the links:

http://www.gonu.com/wtrack/2002/tuftsinvit.ht...
http://www.gonu.com/wtrack/2002/browninvit.ht...