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Where is MAURA MURRAY

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“ Good B chillaxin - TY Scott”

Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Comments: 1128

Danvers, MA

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#16245
Mar 10, 2009
 
Another dangling thought....that if she planned an 'escape', it is still unknown whether it was interrupted by an abduction along the way, and unrelated to her original plan.

None of this is new thinking...just my thinking at the moment.
Dawn

Omaha, NE

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#16246
Mar 10, 2009
 

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One big circle that is for sure..........

Someone somewhere knows.......... I wish they would come forward. If she is alive and wants to remain in privacy - I wish her happiness and safety. I just wish the family could get closure as well.

Hopefully - this new cold case task force can put a new set of eyes on what is actually inside those "blue folders".

Joined: Jun 10, 2008

Comments: 390

Woonsocket, RI

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#16247
Mar 10, 2009
 
paris wrote:
<quoted text>Ok now as for this one. I heard it through the grapevine and so it might not be true. But it did make the papers. Whitewash, maybe you can recall for me. Kathleen had been quoted as being told that her sister may have been seen at the McDnlds. That's when i heard that an employee drove the same make, model and year Saturn, same color too and was the TS. The rest was my mind wondering how that could get a person in trouble too. IThat is if Maura was mistaken for that person, pulled from the car, whatever and on and on.
I haven't seen that---the McDonalds in Woodsville?
White Wash

Lebanon, NH

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#16248
Mar 10, 2009
 

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I do believe it was TWestman who beleive it was
a butt not Faith!
It was the family who questioned the Westmans
and stated she hated smoke and it became a cell phone!
But then again the kids had vowed to never drink wine but Maura was so maybe it was a butt!
paris wrote:
<quoted text>I smoke for a spell, quit and then back at 'em in times of stress. Mom has never suspected it however, so I can relate to parents not knowing. I have had to pinch a lit cig to put it out many times, and in the pocket it goes.
When I recall the quote about someone sitting at the car, smoking a cigarette,- and a man at that, I think Faith W-Man. I also think FW-man when she is later quoted as saying that she stopped looking when she saw her neighbor out there with the girl. So then there were two?
If it were me riding along with Maura, I'd be trying to get all of her things out of there while she runs ahead. If it were me, heck maybe I'd be backing the car into the snow and playing the part of Maura for the world to see. And yes, maybe smoking a butt. OR, maybe Maura is back in that truck or something, intercepted at a gas station while I and my partner in crime move her car until we get stuck and maybe I think something like SHIT, where did my wallet fall in this stolen car dammit, gotta get out of here NOW, as I also decide to grab the backpack. Why not? If committing a crime, why not make it look like the person walked away with their stuff and locked the car too?

Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Comments: 455

Bristol, CT

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#16249
Mar 10, 2009
 

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Snowy White wrote:
<quoted text>
Bill ~
It is unknown and unconfirmed whether she did, in fact, leave Amherst at all. Therefore, it cannot be stated with certainty that she planned to 'escape'.
By all appearances, it would seem she planned to leave, voluntarily.
However, it is unknown whether that leaving was to be a retreat of a social nature; and
1) it is unknown whether she traveled alone
2) if she was accompanied by another person or
3) whether she planned to meet another person at an unconfirmed destination.
1a) if she traveled alone, it is more likely she intended to 'escape'.
2a) if she was accompanied by another person, we do not know if it was planned and voluntary, or unplanned and coerced.
in the first instance, it would be an 'escape'; in the second, it would not.
3a) again, if alone, this might be considered an 'escape'; if another person was involved, it may or may not be considered an 'escape', according to whether it was in getaway in a romantic context, or even a getaway with a college friend.
if so, i cannot explain the silence of a female or male college friend.
The circumstances of the upsetting call would be telling, and would provide information about her intent.
The 'evidence' you present seems inconclusive, in my mind, as to her motivation for leaving, her intended destination, and whether she left Amherst at all.
Everything seems to circle back and around when the 'ifs' and 'buts' are considered.
I understand that there are some that believe this.

I am of the opinion that it was Maura who looked like Maura in Maura’s car at the scene of the accident until compelling evidence makes me believe otherwise. It is just the most reasonable explanation that I can come up with for the situation as it appears without a tremendous amount of needless contortions of information.

Your mileage may, of course, vary.

Bill
elsewherebriefly

Shallotte, NC

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#16250
Mar 10, 2009
 

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WTF-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats fine, I think I remember this informaton from many years ago. I always remember hearing that she sent an email to her professors claiming "a death in the family". Nothing wrong with going over what we believe to be "known" information.
On another note I am unsure that what the specifics of what she used to get away makes much of a difference. The intent and the people she didn't notify were still the same.
Bill
Firstly, I should have proof read before pressing the post comment button...lol...sorry for the botched grammar.

Yes, but there is some truth to the fact that Maura may have been having family problems. There was an earlier discussion with her dad about the possibility of Maura not being covered under the insurance policy on the new Toyota. There was also a discussion about one of Maura's sisters possibly being deployed overseas to Iraq or Afganastan.

The fact that the statement had somehow evolved into a blatant lie about death in the family is bothersome to me. Needless to say that the UL went out of their way to make Maura appear to have a serious drinking problem in an article published during the fall of '07'.

Just the same, I am sticking to my steadfast beliefs that Maura did not run away to start a new life (with $240 in her pocket) or commit suicide.
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#16251
Mar 10, 2009
 
My recollection is the McDonalds was in St.Johnsbury, VT.

Fred and Billy drove up there and checked it out. Nobody knew anything about Maura.

I've never read or heard anything about the Saturn resembling a snitch's car.

Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Comments: 455

Bristol, CT

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#16252
Mar 10, 2009
 

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elsewherebriefly wrote:
<quoted text>
Firstly, I should have proof read before pressing the post comment button...lol...sorry for the botched grammar.
Yes, but there is some truth to the fact that Maura may have been having family problems. There was an earlier discussion with her dad about the possibility of Maura not being covered under the insurance policy on the new Toyota. There was also a discussion about one of Maura's sisters possibly being deployed overseas to Iraq or Afganastan.
The fact that the statement had somehow evolved into a blatant lie about death in the family is bothersome to me. Needless to say that the UL went out of their way to make Maura appear to have a serious drinking problem in an article published during the fall of '07'.
Just the same, I am sticking to my steadfast beliefs that Maura did not run away to start a new life (with $240 in her pocket) or commit suicide.
I never suggested either. I do maintain that without question she intended to get away for an unknown amount of time to accomplish a task or tasks that she told no one about and wanted no family or friends help and didn’t notify anyone of her intent and went so far as to obfuscate her intent and the reason as much as possible. I don’t know if she intended suicide but that is clearly a possibility along with other possibilities. If she was running because of the stress in her life. I do wonder how much more stress the loss of her car in the crash with the thought of police coming might have caused her. It appears it was enough to make her flee the scene. What else might it have caused her to do?

And I am certainly not trying to change anyone’s steadfast beliefs; I am only trying to list other possibilities for her actions to those whose minds are still open.

Bill
paris

Minneapolis, MN

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#16253
Mar 10, 2009
 

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looking4amoose wrote:
<quoted text>I haven't seen that---the McDonalds in Woodsville?
Not being from there, I don't know but it was in line with the route she took and someone had said they may have seen her there. Whether it was that they saw the car, or the the car and/or Maura, i do not know.

It was Faith that still shakes her head that a man was smoking and sitting up front. Yet she also mentions leaving the window when she saw Maura outside with Butch.

So when the officers said they thought the car was just parked there, maybe crashed by yet another drunk driver even,.......~ or someone about to snowmobile and just leave their car as was typical back then........what was he thinking? How could he look at Sharon and Billy and say that and also that he was under the impression that Fred had been driving the car?
Makes me wonder if they thought there was a man in the equation somewhere, and needed to feel their way around the subject? These aren't my words and I still have a hard time with them.
paris

Minneapolis, MN

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#16254
Mar 10, 2009
 
Snowy White wrote:
Another dangling thought....that if she planned an 'escape', it is still unknown whether it was interrupted by an abduction along the way, and unrelated to her original plan.
None of this is new thinking...just my thinking at the moment.
I think that way too unless she was lead into something like
OK, OK, I'll go......don't know where I'll stay, did everything you asked, checked for rooms, nothing and it was all set up.
paris

Minneapolis, MN

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#16255
Mar 10, 2009
 

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Mason wrote:
My recollection is the McDonalds was in St.Johnsbury, VT.
Fred and Billy drove up there and checked it out. Nobody knew anything about Maura.
I've never read or heard anything about the Saturn resembling a snitch's car.
Like I say, I heard that through the grapevine and have found many a sour grape since. So hard to know what's true..........
This has been said before by the way and on the MMM forum.
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#16256
Mar 10, 2009
 
St.Johnsbury is 25 miles north of Woodsville on I-91 and just beyond where I-93 intersects with I-91.
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#16257
Mar 10, 2009
 
"And I am certainly not trying to change anyone’s steadfast beliefs; I am only trying to list other possibilities for her actions to those whose minds are still open."

WTF

The only steadfast belief I have about this case is that I still don't know what happened.
paris

Minneapolis, MN

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#16258
Mar 10, 2009
 

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Maura really had alot going on after high school. Staying active in sports, hiking, etc. I think some have painted a very good picture of Maura, her family, friends and relationship with Billy, Sharon, etc. Having to leave Westpoint must have been hard to do. Adjusting to a new school again, same thing. Add the long busy holiday and being back to school and ouch, time to sit down. She had a job lined up and a car coming in the next couple of weeks. Yes, she was upset that the car was totalled but everyone was looking for answers. Elsewhere, I'm with you. The first reports refer to family problems, issues......
If Maura did not write the emails and somebody with ill intent did, God speed the answers. If she did word it this way.....I'm puzzled. The friends came looking for her, there may have been something more to that feeling that something might be wrong. If anyone can ask them to speculate, express what was on their mind....ficticious example: Maura was not herself, someone was calling her, following her, whatever they can think of would help.
AND THAT LATE NIGHT CALL
Could be key
Mason

Paducah, KY

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#16259
Mar 10, 2009
 
Woodsville, St.Johnsbury, and Franconia form a triangle. Each side is close to 25 miles long.

Probably doesn't mean a damn thing, but it's a straw, so I'm pulling it.

Nothing happened.

Oh, well.

Joined: Oct 16, 2008

Comments: 471

San Mateo, CA

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#16260
Mar 10, 2009
 

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The dialogue between Bill and Snowy here is an excellent snapshot of what I find baffling in this case, the end result being that I agree with both of them.

This case is extaordinarily complex because the entirity of evidence presented contains conflicting evidence, almost to the point of irreconcilability. I will discuss 1 small sample amongst many - along my opinion as to why I don't think I could solve this.

In circumstances in which reported events are in discord, it is a matter of first figuring out how the conflicts could be reconciled. If they cannot, then secondly, to consider the source of both sets of information and the believability of each scenario, to make a best guess as to which one is correct.

Conflicting facts:

I. The Grafton County Sheriff's log contains an entry for the 911 call from the Atwood residence in which the dispatcher was told that a woman was with the Saturn.

Stating this neutrally, and in isolation from the other facts, it is reasonable to assume that Maura was the driver.

Event considered fact, with unlikely caveats:(Dispatcher misunderstanding of 911 caller, mistaske in transcription of call, subsequent alteration of police logs by anyone with custody prior to my examination of it).

Part 2 follows

Joined: Oct 16, 2008

Comments: 471

San Mateo, CA

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#16261
Mar 10, 2009
 

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vs.

II. In general, the newspapers have reported that Maura would not drive the Saturn.

Stating this neutrally, and in isolation from the other facts, it is reasonable to assume that Maura was not the driver.

Event convincingly fact, with possible but unreasonable caveats:(A guilty party provided the information, a one time event has been blown out of proportion, sloppy newspaper reporting)

The first problem is that neither I. or II. can establish with certainty what happened.

Reconciling possibility:

1. A woman that could be mistaken as being Maura under the lighting conditions the night of her accident drove the Saturn.
2.?

Certainly there are more then 1 reconciling possibilities.

After the reconciling possibilities have been gathered, then the next step is to attempt to determine how it could have happened.

Once a possible how is arrived at, the next step is to test the "how" with the other known or purported facts to determine liklihood.

All of these steps draw objections, some can't be brought to conclusion for lack of evidence.

Joined: Oct 16, 2008

Comments: 471

San Mateo, CA

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#16262
Mar 10, 2009
 
FireCat wrote:
<quoted text>
Teeny correction--Maura DID pack both a wall charger
Thank you!

“ Good B chillaxin - TY Scott”

Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Comments: 1128

Gloucester, MA

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#16263
Mar 10, 2009
 
Bill ~ I'm not at all concerned about Maura's not having made prior arrangements for a place to stay. We've done this for years, when having some reasonable expectation for options upon arrival.

Too, she may have been headed to visit a friend of a friend of a friend...in NH or VT...there may have been a plan to meet someone at a condo.
Unknown. College kids travel...whether calm/happy or stressed/distraught.

College kids have been known to have breakdowns and run away from school. There is no evidence of this...with the exception of the unknown phone call.

So, if Maura arrived (hair down or hair up) with the Saturn at its final location, it is likely her body would have been found by now if she intended suicide from that location.

If she accepted a ride or was forcibly taken against her will by an as yet unknown vehicle, she may be anywhere.

Still, what you see...what is tangible...is not always what you get.
If you want to stick to the facts, then she packed, traveled, and disappeared from the final resting place of the Saturn. Period.

Still doesn't explain motivation and intent, IMHO.
FireCat

United States

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#16264
Mar 10, 2009
 
Dawn wrote:
I was curious about the "hockey bag" is this a term used on the east coast for a "duffle bag". Not sure how it works - do you pay a deposit in MA? In oregon you do but not in WA. You pay more when you buy the beer. Do we know who reported it ? did he hear bottles clinking together ? I would imagine it would smell like beer. Beer has a strong smell when you have a bunch of empties.
A hockey bag is a specific kind of duffel bag that's big enough to carry all one's hockey equipment and padding (not the stick, obviously--that usually stays outside the bag). They're gi-normous.
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