Where is MAURA MURRAY

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
FireCat does NOT seem to think that. I urge you to go back and read both posts I made yesterday regarding this, three or four pages back. One directly quotes a newspaper, which doesn't state WHEN police determined she had the backpack. The other, which refers to the GCSD log, does not mention the backpack at all.
I also urge you to go revisit the Grafton County Sheriff's Department log, which is available for download on the other forum. You will be able to see for yourself what is and is not mentioned in the original BOL.
Presumably, since the BOL Sharon referenced was issued on 2/11, which was two days after Maura disappeared and while the family was up there, they at that point knew that Maura's backpack was missing. The backpack is not referred to in that press release, but that's all I know.
As to the exact date or moment when HPD knew and/or announced the backpack was missing, I don't know because I do not have all of the records (obviously).

thinking out loud: flight of ideas re: back pack, Maura exiting the car, foot prints, and talking to the SBD.

have always wondered about the back pack, someone had to have seen the driver of the vehicle with the back pack.

the SBD stated that Maura had to squeeze out of the car on the driver's side against the snowbank. I have a difficult time to imagine at that point that Maura would have dragged the back pack out of the car, given the limited space between the car and the snowbank. Sharon stated she saw the impression of the car door in the snow when she visited the site and the snow bank was up to the mail boxes, two feet at least.

When and how did Maura take the back pack from the car, the passenger's side would be the most likely method of extracting the back pack, unless it was in the trunk of the Saturn.

So who saw the back pack?

Why were there no foot prints at the scene of the accident? I believe that one news article stated there was one set of foot tracks seen leading to the back of the car?

Maura going to and from the back of the car to the inside of the car, re: report of inside and trunk lights going on and off. Because of the difficulty entering and exited the car on the driver's side presumably Maura used the passenger's door.

trying to figure out how Maura exited the car, and imagining the events that happened afterwards...

Can't see Maura squeezing in an out of the driver side repeatedly, or with a back pack? Where did she stand to talk to the SBD, no room to stand by the car and the snowbank.

It is alleged both the driver and the SBD were seen outside talking.

the evidence of foot tracks is not recorded on the police report, and most articles in the media stated there were no foot tracks.

Law enforcement would not be wasting their meagre resources investigating Maura's disappearance as a criminal case if they had the slightest indication Maura was alive. The crimes unit would have sought the assistance of the FBI if they believe Maura is alive. There is no indication the FBI is involved, and they certainly would be in a person being held captive, or a run away.

The amount of resources and monies spent in Maura's investigation and searches likely approaches more monies than ever spent in a disappearance in New Hampshire's in recorded history.

I perhaps exaggerate slightly, however, my statement likely is not far from the truth.

Law enforcement and the state would not be investing resources on Maura's investigation if there is no evidence of foul play. Government simply doesn't have the money to waste.

Given the FBI are not involved, there is no indication law enforcement believe Maura is alive.

Weeper has advised, finding Maura at this point is a recover operation. I do not believe Weeper would make such a statement lightly and without evidence to say so.

Everyone is entitle to believe what they will, however there is no evidence to indicate Maura is alive.

The fact that so many detectives work to find Maura too is an indication that Maura was a victim of foul play.

It would be glorious if Maura were alive, but there is no indication that law enforcement or the detectives working in this investigation believe Maura is alive.

Please step in if I have spoken out of line if there exists any evidence that detectives and law enforcement believe Maura is alive and living somewhere else, or being held in captivity against her will, or is a victim of loss of memory
or is in hiding.

WE can argue all we want but at the end of the day, it is what it is. Maura's disappearance is a criminal investigation and the cold case squad will be looking into her disappearance when they become operational.

If I offend anyone I apologize, and I wish there was just the faintest hope Maura is alive, but law enforcement has never indicated any glimmer of hope that this is so.

Peter Hinkle, Rep. N.H. indicated that when a cold case squad is established, cases like Maura's and other disappearances and murders will be investigated.

I have no desire to hurt or injure anyone, especially Maura's loved ones. Nor do I know if there is information to indicate Maura is alive that may not have been revealed to the public.

DetC, appreciate a fact....it is much needed....
the truth is needed, especially whereas some in that neighborhood and the allies have had varying stories that have become lore. CW's version has beome lore. All that is needed is the truth.

quoted from the "new forum" -
Shack wrote:
The following is about NH criminal activities..but not specifically Maura...within my last few years here n there on a few different NH Forums, I have found many references to the position that NH
inherits Massachusetts "nere do wells"...even Chief Williams, HPD, referred to "transients"...It has been implied that criminal elements have drifted North from MA. Well, I guess it must be so. After today's Grafton County Court session ended, Massachusetts trash that had indeed migrated North has become a NH treasure, as has been defended by some. One down...actually 2, Ind...cato:.. how many more...? I want one more......
All I want is for Maura's demise to be vindicated....(Yes, something I wouldn't say 4 years ago...out loud..only my feelings...she is in heaven) I'm sure there is room in jail for one more.
********
Mason, i fully agree with your position (p.62 Gen'l Discussion) on the state of our prison system, and fundamental changes suggested to align

i'd remind Shack that it is not known whether a crime has been committed against Maura; therefore, "jailing" is not the moral "justice" equivalent.

while you condemn an entire state for exporting a "criminal" to NH, recall that NH-born Liko Kenney killed a police officer...FACTS are on tape. had he lived, i'd hope your idea of "justice" would have extended to his "crime" as well as to the as yet unnamed "nere do well" you've presumed to have killed Maura.
"justice" is not "revenge".

You are WRONG CW AND THE NEIGHBOR WHERE TALKING IN CW's HOUSE WHILE PUTTING IN
A SLIDING GLASS DOOR UPSTAIRS! It was his
wife who said something to Wini who called
Fred.

So it wasn't in the store and it what I was told came directly from the one of the
PEOPLE INVOLVED!

But then again everything has to be SPUN TO FIT THE FIT!

Detective Columbo wrote:

WW wrote:
"Just for the record this IS IN CORRECT since I heard it directly from someone involved.
CW told a neighbor what he thought he saw someone running around that time frame.The neighbor
took him about the date and he checked his records and they where the same night!
This neighbor told the Store Owner who was relaying every piece of information to Fred!
So she picked up the phone and called Fred and
told him!
And CW did contact NHSP himself but by that point
Fred was in his face w/the PI's and it instead
of letting LE handle it well you got people
refusing PI's searches!
Does not mean that CW has not been help NHSP!
This is just ONE OF THE MANY THINGS THAT are misleading about this case!"
**********
CW and a neighbor/friend were talking IN THE STORE and the owner "WM" overheard the conversation. Somehow the info was given to LE and they then went to CW house to talk to him about the sighting. CW did not go to LE, they went to him.
Also at that time there was only one PI helping the Murrays and that was me. I have never talked to the CW, but Fred has.
CW refused a search of his property LONG BEFORE Fred Murray even knew about him. I think I might question where the info came from and if it is viable.

Please find Shack's statement copied below from p.63/findmauramurray forum at 2:52A/Sun., 3/15.

Shack seems to long for the glory days where a select group of participants shared her opinions, as well as a defined and appropriate expression of dismay about the appearance of Maura according to her standard of reverence; hence, today's critical atmosphere at Topix.

Without participation or open feedback from Sharon or Helena she finds little value in the current conversation and the opinions of others. By comparison, the content is shallow and off-topic.

Perhaps a solution is for her to re-create what existed...surely the control element can be duplicated, along with its original effectiveness, as well.

Part 1

It is becoming about 4 years (Spring 05) for me that I first heard words about Maura missing on 112,in Haverhill?, Woodsville?, Bath?, Swiftwater?, NH. "Some man is going around town being a PIA, looking for his daughter"...I spent most of the Summer of 2004, in a town 20 miles away; into the Fall and Winter there on weekends;..heard nary a word until Spring of 05...? The only newspapers that I read up there were the JO and NCN...occasional Bridge. I didn't have TV and my parents had only fuzzy maybe WCAX? even with antenna, on their TV. Somehow, I missed any media attention. I recall one of my first Posts exclaiming the need of King Kong bellowing from the States Golden dome.

I remain loyal to my attention. However, now I kinda sorta reiterate Citigirl's words to me "I just don't know what to say anymore". More and more I read on Topix/Forum, the angry,surly and bizzare. I don't and will never understand why, when the discussion is supposed to be about the mysterious disappearance of Maura, that sometimes it seems to be
about just anything and everything else. I really don't believe that folks mean to prattle about things that don't mean anything. I think that people are just trying to make any sense of it. I have to trust that the TEAM is really on it....and hope for a "Cold Case" team in NH....

The First Forum had more information....Sharon didn't hold back...(Paris?Peri?)..again and still, I thought that Sharon saw the dent in the snow bank made by the driver's side door made by Maura exiting the car...?...arrgh?) AND, Sharon did visit SBD and posted/related his.
humming of the Twilight Zone, as to Maura's disappearance.(shudder) Also, Smith saying "some of the alcohol was missing"..? How would he know that night..?. Don't forget SBD words that he had been w/LE..
which was a lie. Which really means diddly squat .....I guess.....an ignorant expletive of a wannabee ..?
Also, betcha no investigative forensics or otherwise, testing of Saturn was done before it left Lavoies...(when I joined in the Spring of '05, the Saturn was still at Lavoies...outdoors in a yard)....just sat outside ...puhleeze...then for months, as is the case at NHSP at Twin Mts. Missing Person vs Criminal Investigation....? Which is it really..?
Protect and Serve....BS and Phfftt! Cover it up under the lumpy rug...and hum.....

Part 2

Anyway, slowly after the demise of First Forum and then into the 2nd Forum, the tone changed. Going by memory...pls forgive...within a few months of the Fall of 2006..after the dog search, a few locals came into the Forum and then it seemed to become surly/bizzare. Why? Cuz nobody in their community/area could've done anything bad..? OR the locals were sick of it..? My feeling is that so were Maura's family...sick...of everything. Some of the first info. seemingly disappeared? Helena had had enough, as evidenced by a long hospitalization..Lady Gray took over, by request of the Murray family, with Norma.....Again, there was some order, but some "surly" continued.
Then it came about that a different Towing company Northland was on
duty....and that there were photo's taken that night of Satrun...?

Because I was a newbie, now that I look back, no wonder the family ignored my offer of search(es) within my lake(s) area(s) according to Lake Associations. Just before the October 2006 Search, I suggested a search of my NH property, just to show area others of compliance of empathy?/apathy?. One woman in Benton,(LB) even wrote an editorial in JO as to questioning why some of the populous was resistance of area searches, and putting up "no trespassing" signs.

Sometime recently, a Poster declared that no way that anyone was gonna tear up their land searching over n over for Maura.. I, and anyone with whom I have discussed this, within my neighbors and lake owners have said "No problem"...I do know that if this happened within feet or miles of my home here in MAss, or at Lake....I, and as well as my MA/NH neighbors, would be more than receptive....
If Maura is with the earth, she isn't with the Swiss chard, Tomatoes or Tulips/Crocus....she would be with with Mountain Laurel, Spattadock , Cat Tails, Skunk Cabbage or Fiddlehead Ferns. I say, dig, tromp, scoop, cut....whatever it takes...(fence off your formal English Garden)

Yes, I do believe that Maura didn't do away with herself.....Yes, I believe that Maura didn't relocate for another life...Yes, I believe that Maura is in heaven, not of her choice. Yes, I believe that a dirt bag's communicant will eventually reveal.. And, Yes, my feelings of my ol' NH have been tainted....seemingly "Of, By and For the people" are just words...
Civics 101....should be mandatory........MY NH has changed...it'll never be the same.....

There should be no such thing as the "Big Guys...running the tonwn"....There should be no such thing as the "Upper Crust" or "Dignitaries" ...If you want your off-spring to grow and not want them to be followers...please have them study government and question authority. The Government is you....every Town/City/State
Government is you. Every one of their pay checks are paid by you....ie If your Town's elected are not performing properly, speak up.... Ethically/legally/morally, it doesn't matter if your brother, uncle, cousin gets a pay check from your Town/City/State,, Freedom of Speech.....Your Tax dollars are in use..! If ones mind(s) is idle to this fact..then the repetitive ignorance will be perpetuated......to no good. Idolism will just be passed on to indolence ...

Peri?Scooter?Elsewhere?..you reminded me again for millionth time about the term FIT. The term FIT does, and has appeared to irritate some....Forum Investigative Team......which just goes to show insecurities....that some feel/felt left out. All on the Forum(s) were/are the Forum Investigative Team. It started November 2004.
Hundreds of Posters signed on to the Forum(s) all trying to help find out what happened to Maura.........It isn't a club to which a password, is needed to join. All forum posters were/are the team ....investigating....

Part 3

Det.C...appreciate the information you posted, below:
"The CW info came about on April 29th 2004, 2 1/2 months later.
Hard to believe it took that long for him to remember what he had seen considering he lives within a couple hundred yards of the acc. scene and frequented the local store. The area was buzzing about the disappearance of Maura by this time and long before that even. Very interesting how this info came out just days before a search of the immediate area was planned."

I find it totally unbelievable that CW didn't...(no matter what time he arrived home) see the many colored lights.. blue, red, yellow whatever.. that were flashing within those 2ish hours. One night sitting here in my LR, I saw a blue light flashing on my wall....I jumped up to see no vehicle...just the flashing blue light in the dark sky, up the street
around a corner. I agree with Det.C that is hard to believe it took so long for him to remember that night.

Whiston mentioned recently about a former Poster...now I can't recall the name...from Websleuths..but, I recall within the first forum of proper manners, a name of Hydemi. He and I disagreed as to how Maura disappeared. It became a good-natured debate...I long for those days...the days that Anne spoke about whereas people were gracious....(My words, not hers) We, the Forum, interjected bits of humour, but didn't go off on tangents. We remained on the Topic of Maura.

I will, no doubt, stay on the "list of hated"...It doesn't matter. It does, in fact ,help to justify my findings of the "area's state of mind"; and the years of snarls and anger, directed my way, has more than reinforced throughout tie, my every thoughts and opinions.

To anyone who was in the First Forum, specifically in Spring of 2005..do you remember the photographs of a car.....parked beside 112 (by family/friend)...the car was in the right hand side of the road facing East...the photo was accompanied by the words to the effect that that was where the Saturn landed ...only....ONLY...that the car was
found facing West.....?
Also, when one first signed on the the first Maura Forum, there were questions as to one's interests. My interest were, and are Genealogy and Justice. I can't imagine why anyone would be writing/posting on
any of Maura's sites without any interests in justice, it can't at this point be family history...?

AND, BTW check out Topix.Woodsville;.(below) evidently Murder of Conrad; an automobile homicide/accident; Powell/Indelicato; Woodsville Rumble; Christopher Gray and youth of Wentworth are not the only area murders/happenings....now we have a Douglas White Jr.(JO 2/25/09) "Police Looking for Woodsville Man".....(on the VT wanted list) Yes, this segment of NH is within the U.S. Yes, some of us pay attention....Those of you who do not want to want to acknowledge any crimes within a small (under 10k) population and want to snarl about us who do care, why not snarl on a "snarl" Blog. There seems to be a larger percentage for Justice, as apposed to injustice.
I don't want crime in my NH to become a cover up lump in the carpet.....

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/woodsville-nh...

I know I wrote alot ...but, just want to keep the plight of Maura
in the news.....I don't want her "swept under the carpet".....

The information about the Tauton Police
is not quoted it was added by the Author. As you can clearly see Atwood's
actually "QUOTED STATEMENTS".
Now Police Dept have people who assist with Public events. Directing cars ect.
it is possible that Atwood would indeed
have dealings wiht the police in MA.

FireCat wrote:

http://worldnetdaily.
com/
index.php?pageId=35310
<quoted text>
http://ledger.so uthofboston.
com/articles/2005/
02/10/news/news02.txt
<quoted text>

Caledonian-Record Thursday May 6,2004
The witness contacted state police April 29,about possibly seeing Murray the night of the accident.

By NHSP you got proof of that?

Detective Columbo wrote:

Also....CW has NEVER ALLOWED a search of his property by NHSP or PI's. They did get a warrant and the trailer that he lived in while builing his house that he later sold was searched at a location in Lyme, NH. The results of that search are unknown, except by NHSP and other LE.

Fred Murray's own words to the governor
"reported" not LE when to investigated but Fred himself states REPORTED!

Recently, nearly three (3) months after the accident, a motorist who was driving
west on Route
112 at about 8:00 PM on February 9 reported seeing a young person acting
furtively heading
very fast in an easterly direction at a point about four (4) to five (5) miles away
from the scene
of the crash. The time line and description of the individual’s appearance and
clothing fits
perfectly for this person to have been Maura.

WHITE WASH wrote:

Caledonian-Record Thursday May 6,2004
The witness contacted state police April 29,about possibly seeing Murray the night of the accident.
By NHSP you got proof of that?
<quoted text>

Could the Saturn's gearshift have been knocked into neutral as Maura climbed over to get out of the car on the passenger side? Could it have been displaced into neutral while she dealt with the airbag? Maybe as she shifted from F to R to try to get out of the snowbank and failed, she just left the stupid gearshift anywhere?

Friday Feb 13,2004
Murray met with reporters in Bethlehem,NH after family members
scoured parts of NH.
"Maura this is me...like always,we will slove this," he said in a plea to his daughter through the media.
Maura who is 5 feet, 7 inches and weighs about 120 pounds, is what the paper lists for a description. On Feb 13th. Doesn't appear to list shoes,knapsack,ect.

According to Helena Murray a "family friend" interviewed Butch Atwood who stated "she didn't look like the pictures"

Friday Feb 27, 2004
The Caledonian-Record
states The family of Maura Murray
have hired R.C. Stevens of PSII Inc. a
Northhampton, Mass private investigation agency.
Where are these records?

According to Det. Col. he became involved in March 04 involved is that the same as being hired? Are you employed as the above PI was?

Ok so we have family then LE then PI's
press back to family,LE,PI's and then
people pick up or turn on the TV to
discover "in the middle of no where" no one bothered to help a missing college
student.

This might be a duplicate -- first one disappeared:

Maura had to be composed to lock the doors of the Saturn (unless it was pure habit as some think), so that goes against the image of her fleeing in panic. I don't think she was intoxicated even though liquor was spilled, and probably could be smelled.(Maybe she had a very little.) If she grabbed some of her things, walked east and waited for a chance to get by the SBD's house... then, she really could've been the youngster seen running by the CW. THANKS, WHITE WASH!!!! In that case, she was seen, what?, 1/4 of the way to North Woodstock or Lincoln? And maybe the Wed. AM call to Billy was NOT hung up in space for days but was really her calling after she had been away for 2 nights.

This is the same stuff we've been going over for years. When a person is "down", she sometimes thinks about those she'd leave behind and evaluates (usually very emotionally) how much those loved ones need her. If she's depressed and had some recent events that make her feel worthless (new car wreck?), she might decide that she is not really needed by anyone; that she's a liability; that someone else can do whatever she was needed to do. If you have children or a sick spouse, you're pretty much stuck in your "job" of love and care. I think the bookmarked page in Not Without Peril (reread it yesterday) was intentional and clear; the introduction to that chapter talks about making tough/almost impossible decisions, unpopular choices, encountering a situation in life for which there is no guide. Today I think that that, along with her mementos, was Maura's explanation and apology.

First off all equipement was parted at on Old Peter's Road.
CW house sits behind TM house so that would block lights!
In fact the neighbors that live across
the street from CW had no clue either
of such activity until the Ambulance turned about on Bradley Hill it was those lights that caused him to look out
their window.
Although there are 5 houses on the drag there is still plenty of woods!
Now there are two ways CW could have come home that night down Bradley Hill
and he wouldn't have probably seen crap
or up Bradley Hill and made seen some lights but since it's not uncommon for
there to be accidents there paid no mind to it! Some people just do not
care what's going on outside their world.

~Shack wrote:
Fall of 2006..after the dog search, a few locals came into the Forum and then it seemed to become surly/bizzare.~

And it is this attitude that caused the locals to leave the forum.
Surly and bizzare were two of the kinder names that the locals were called by this person.
And while condemning and degrading the people and the state of NH by calling them names and saying despicable things about them this person had the audacity to claim NH as "MY NH". Pffffttttt

Whether or not CW came home via 112 or BHR or even if he was home at the time of the acc. he would have seen or heard something. Lights flashing, loud speakers going off from radio transmissions, cars parked on roadway, Etc. How convenient that he did not notice a thing, I believe this to be untrue. CW has also had 3 different accounts of that night as told to LE, PI'S and Fred Murray.

Why did CW and SBD change their stories?

If as CW states he was coming home from Franconia when he reached the immediate area of 112 and BHR,(his house is on the corner) he would have seen something. If he stayed on 112 when he came around the corner he would have seen all the activity, if perhaps he came DOWN BHR he still would have seen flashing lights and activity. IF he had just seen someone running down the road a few minutes earlier and noticed this activity when arriving home he MIGHT put 2 and 2 together. CW is a very smart man, it is hard to believe he would not go talk to LE that night or WAY BEFORE April 29th. 2004, 2 1/2 months later. ALSO how convenient that his info came out about the sighting 4 to 5 miles away just before a planned search of the immediate area of the acc. scene. IMHO

Suzanne wrote:

<quoted text>
Very well done and very interesting. We know very little about Maura, the only person who let us know a little about Maura as a person was Sharon, bless her. Firecat tells me it is none of our business, it is an invasion of her privacy, yet FC has never once commented on the discussion of Maura's birth control pills which I thought was a rather private matter.
NH LE has been roundly, soundly and repeatedly condemned for suggesting that Maura was a runaway. I have always seen it as a real possibility. Adding to your above list is the fact that Maura refused to allow SBD to call for help.

Correct. The presence of birth control pills is openly and frequently noted by duck/FIT, which is entirely inconsistent with other matters attacked by duck/FIT as private. Tells you something.