Where is MAURA MURRAY

Detective Columbo wrote:

Is it POSSIBLE that Maura did have a previous acc. in the woodsville area on Feb. 9th 2004. Is it also POSSIBLE that a person came along with a truck, maybe even a RED ONE and this person stopped to help her. Maybe this person in the truck offered her a tow to his garage or house Possibly on Rte. 116, Benton Rd. Maybe this person offered to help her fix her car and she took him up on the offer.
While being towed by chain or tow strap when the vehicles reached the sharp turn at The Weathered Barn the 2 vehicles became detatched from each other or collided with each other. This would mean Maura's Saturn rearending or going under the back of the truck.
SO....Is it POSSIBLE that the Thud that was heard could have been the collision between the 2 vehicles and the Acceleration could have been the truck taking off from the scene. The person realized he would be in trouble for removing the Saturn from the 1st. acc. scene, towing the vehicle for more than 1 mile with a chain or strap. He might also think if Maura had been drinking this would add more problems for him.
Is it also POSSIBLE that this truck could have been the same truck that was parked on BH Rd. on this same night.
Remember the RED TRUCK that slowed to check out RO and was at the store when she arrived there. RO stated this truck also left the parking lot shortly after (a few min.) she entered the store and headed easterly towards the Weathered Barn. Maybe this truck encountered Maura and her saturn between the store and the Weathered Barn, broken down or crashed. So he offers her the help and she accepts.
So this would leave Maura at The Weathered Barn scene with a disabled vehicle. She gathers her things and walks away from the scene and is Possibly picked up at the corner of BH Rd. and Rte. 112 (where the dogs tracked her scent to).
Where did she go and with whom?

Is it possible that all this scenario was prearranged/planned?

Dawn wrote:

EWB
whitmanhanson express is one of them. they quote both butch saying he NEVER told media she was intoxicated and Fred states that he NEVER denied she was drinking.
http://www.whitmanhansonexpress.com/index.php...

LETS"S LOOK AT THIS:(MY COMMENTS WILL ALL BE IN CAPS)
Haverhill Police Chief Jeff Williams states in the article that an eyewitness to the crash described Murray as unable to stand on her own and slurring her speech. Williams also quotes the eyewitness as saying Murray “begged me not to call police.”(MAURA WAS SAID TO HAVE TOLD HIM SOMEWHAT FLATLY THAT SHE'D ALREADY CALLED AAA AND BUTCH WALKED AWAY MUTTERING TO THE EFFECT THAT HE KNEW THAT WAS A LIE, NO CELL RECEPTION. NOTICE HOW IT SAYS HERE THAT BUTCH WALKED BACK TO HIS HOME. BAD REPORTING OR PART OF WHAT HE SAID EARLY ON, WHICH WAS THAT HE RAN BACK DOWN THERE, AND I TOOK THAT AS 2 TRIPS. WHAT STANDS OUT TO ME IS THAT SOMEONE WAS SEEN WALKING AROUND THE CAR. IF MAURA WAS UNABLE TO STAND ON HER OWN, WHAT KICKED IN? I MEAN, I KEEP WONDERING IF THERE WAS ANYONE ELSE THERE. IF BUTCH WAS THE ONLY WITNESS TO THE ACTUAL 'CRASH', THEN HOW CAN WE SAY THE ORANGE PEELING COUPLE (JM AND VM) DIDN'T SEE SOMETHING SOONER, OR HECK SOMETHING LATER? THEY COULDN'T SEE MAURA AT THE CAR ONCE BUTCH LEFT. WAS THAT THE SECOND TIME HE WAS THERE...IF WHAT HE SAID AND WHAT 'S REPORTED HERE IS TRUE? NOTICE HOW IT SAY'S WITNESSES AT THE SCENE......WHAT WITNESSES AT THE SCENE? THAT IMPLIES MORE THAN ONE PERSON, AND AT THE CAR TO BOOT.
In the Haverhill police’s initial press release, a few days after the crash, they describe “witnesses at the scene” who reported a single female “impaired due to alcohol consumption.”
In the days that followed, it became apparent that the only eyewitness to the crash was Butch Atwood, a local school bus driver who lives about 100 feet away from where Murray crashed. Atwood has denied saying he believe Murray was intoxicated, to several media outlets as well as the Express when he was contacted for last summer’s “Maura Murray is Missing” series.{sidebar id=1}
Atwood said Murray was having difficulty getting out of the car because the door was stuck against a snow bank. When he asked if she wanted him to call police, Murray said not to bother, as she had already called AAA. Although Atwood doubted she could have gotten through to AAA, he advised her to put on her hazard lights to avoid being struck by oncoming cars and walked the 100 feet or so back to his home.(AND HERE I'D LIKE TO REMIND ONE AND ALL THAT THE LIGHTS WERE ALREADY NOTED TO BE ON BY AT LEAST 4 PEOPLE IN 2 SEPARATE HOUSES.

WHITE WASH wrote:

Corn beef hash the next day must be a close second in my book!
<quoted text>

oh god yes. The worst thing in the world (as a Catholic) is a St. Patrick's Day on a Thursday, thus forbidding red flannel corn beef hash the morning after, as it's a Friday in Lent. Grrrr. Fortunately, that didn't happen this year. Breakfast party at FireCat's!

WHITE WASH wrote:

Anything is possible but we DO KNOW THAT HPD did not respond to an accident prior to the 7:30 accident that we have proof of with what information we have so far.
Maura's scent ends at Bradley Hill wasn't it you that stated you spoke to a witness who saw a red truck on Bradley Hill? Why didn't the witness call the police? If this person did pick up Maura why didn't the dog follow
her scent up the hill?
Does your witness on BH match that truck
details that RO gave?
HPD also stated that they where aware of RO statement and where aware of the
truck.
You inspected the car did you find
evidence of strapping or chains? Strapping would leave material fibers ect. Chains would leave marks.
Just my opinion anyone who attempts this activity usually have the knowledge
to pull it off and isn't that the whole
point of having someone in the towed
car to hit the brakes?
You are suggesting that the Westman
watched an accident between two cars
and didn't report it? But they reported
everything else why not the other rig?
<quoted text>

Actually, the police logs I have mostly start around 7:30, so I *DON'T* have proof of that. Especially since the logs themselves are incomplete, in the sense that in addition to beginning after the alleged first accident, not all jurisdictions are represented.

WHITE WASH wrote:

If they can pee in a well I think they
should get a prize Wowzer isn't that
a feat?
Aren't those covers dug down a few hundred feet? And a couple hundred pounds in weight?
<quoted text>

They must have very good aim.....(no pun intended, Quija....)

I'm not accusing anyone of anything by the way. I'm just wonder too how this went down and in what order.
Looking4amoose, yes, it could have been set up. It's just debatable to me if Maura would up and leave, and/or if she had help.

AGAIN:
"In the days that followed, it became apparent that the only eyewitness to the crash was Butch Atwood, a local school bus driver who lives about 100 feet away from where Murray crashed."
THE ONLY EYEWITNESS. SO WAS HE WAS COMING AROUND THE CORNER AND COULD BARELY SEE THE DARK CAR, HALF IN THE ROAD? AND HE'S THE "ONLY" EYEWITNESS. HOW CAN THEY SAY THAT? JM SEE'S THE CAR BACK UP AND IT IS NOW OVER IN THE DITCH MORE OR LESS....OR WAS IT? MAYBE TOGETHER (BUTCH AND MAURA) TRIED TO MOVE IT ON OUT AND THAT'S WHERE THE SOUNDS CAME FROM? THE W-MANS LOOK OUT AND SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING AND THEN STOP WHEN THEY SEE BUTCH IS THERE. CAN SOMEONE PUT THIS IN GOOD ORDER? THAT WOULD BE A GOOD START, AN ACCIDENT RE CONSTRUCTIONIST SO WE CAN GET THE BEST PICTURE OF THOSE FIRST MOMENTS THAT ALL EYEWITNESSES RECALL WHAT THEY THEMSELVES SAW....IN ORDER!

White Wash wrote:

What crowd?
Art? Running?
<quoted text>

Marks was very into art and theater and he was an on-again, off-again runner, which was/is characteristic of many in the "crowd" I referred to, but it's not the main event or the relevant glue or whatever.

Take, for example, a drug dealer and his "employees" and business partners and associates. They might deal in drugs, but doing so does not define them to the exlusion of all else in their lives. They may all be NASCAR freaks. Or all into the local music/art scene. Or whatever. There are all different kinds of drug dealers in this world.

2-Part Post

I posted the following 6 questions in the General Discussion section on the other site on Tuesday.

1. Was Maura paid with paychecks issued in her name or by direct deposit into her bank account? If the latter, she would not have been concerned about waiting in Amherst to receive her paychecks. Also, if by direct deposit, I can't imagine her not using her ATM card to access those funds later in the week unless she lost her card, she was incapacitated, or she was dead. Also, if her phone never was detected pinging after 7:30 pm EST on 2/9/2004, I believe these two factors come close to extinguishing the possibility that she started a new life.

2. If she was paid with paychecks, she had good reason to delay her departure from Amherst until she received and cashed or deposited the checks. Since she didn't delay her departure, her belief in the necessity and urgency to leave Amherst obviously trumped her desire and need for extra money. Before she left town, she might have arranged to have a friend pick up her checks and deposit them into her account as it would have been possible to do that. I haven't read anything regarding this possibility. Does anyone recall anything about this?

3. According to newspaper reports, she withdrew $280 using her ATM card in Amherst at 3:40 pm EST on 2/9/2004. We don't know how much cash she had in her possession before the ATM withdrawal, so we have no way of knowing how much cash she had when she left town. I don't know for certain, but I believe banks impose a daily limit on the amount of cash that a depositor can withdraw using their ATM card. Does anyone know if her bank had a daily limit and, if so, what it was? If she had $500 in her account, for example, but was limited to withdrawing $280 using her ATM card, she had sufficient time to go to her bank and withdraw more than $280 at a teller window, or drain and close the account. Since she opted to use her ATM card and left before she received her paychecks, I'm inclined to believe (a) she intended to return to Amherst before the end of the week,(b) she intended to commit suicide and only needed enough money to get to her destination of choice, or (c) someone else who knew her PIN did not want to risk discovery by attempting to withdraw money at a teller window. Alternative (a) seems more likely than (b), given the textbooks that were in the Saturn, unless they were there before she decided to leave and she decided against carrying them back to her room before she left. Alternative (c) remains little more than a theoretical possibility unless someone can come up with a viable theory regarding that person's identity and motive.

Part 2 -- FINAL

4. I'm confused by the SBD's statement that the female had the deflated airbag pulled up partially concealing her face. Assuming his statement is true, was she attempting to hide behind it, or was she trying to cover herself to retain body heat? I need more information about airbags to answer this question. How elastic are they after they are deployed and the interior air pressure subsides close to the ambient air pressure? Could she have concealed her body completely? Why bother to try since the vehicle that stopped was a school bus and the driver likely would call 911 to report the accident because the Saturn was partially in the E/B lane?

5. I agree with Peri's point that we don't know how how much time passed between the accident, FW's 911 call, and the SBD's arrival. Newspaper reports state FW and TW heard the accident shortly after 7 pm, but the 911 call was logged in at 7:27 pm. I find it difficult to believe that FW waited 25 minutes to call 911. However, if she did wait that long, what was the driver thinking? Wouldn't the driver have realized that the cops were going to arrive pretty soon? If she were intoxicated, wouldn't she have abandoned the vehicle immediately? Why didn't she? Was she expecting someone? Was someone with her? Someone who concealed himself with the passenger side airbag by leaning over and placing his head in her lap? Might two people have walked away from the Saturn after the SBD left?

6. Finally, what happened to the paychecks, assuming Maura wasn't paid by direct deposit? LE could have given them to the Murrays after copying them. Copies of checks are routinely admitted into evidence in legal proceedings as an acceptable substitute for the originals. The gallery could have been identified because its name would have been printed on the check.

Fred

WTF-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Beagle, buddy,
I said two things that really need to be kept in mind.
First I said known, KNOWN to me. If you know something that disputes that then let us know.
Second, I was always poor writing style to use the phrase “in my opinion”. Clearly its my opinion because I am writing it. I still use it on public forums to help people know that its not a fact, its just my thoughts, as I did in this case. So, I’ll try again and I’ll write it slower this time. In…. my….. opinion.
That’s all it is nothing more. If you think that Maura was a drug dealing, crack whore with ties to the Russian mafia and satanic cults then that’s all fine. A little proof would be useful if you want me to change my opinion not just make obscure references that I really don’t have time to search out. Too lazy, sorry. I’ll read information, I’ll even research some information, but I won’t go on snipe hunts. If the information is there then just post it and reference it like anyone else would.
Bill

I'd think you knew there were limits as to what could be posted. Let's say Maura Murray was killed and I knew the killer. I might not have proof, but I could not and would not post information as specific as the killer's name. Going to LE is not an option. What is obscure to people in Connecticut about people in Amherst is not obscure to people in Amherst. Amherst is where Maura Murray disappeared from. Not only that, a lot of detailed theories and so-called information has been discussed for years about Haverhill. Somehow Haverill info is not obscure.

WTF-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Two deaths, separated by seven years and 2000 miles. Who both lived in Mass at one time. I don’t even know what he died from, do you? He could have died from pneumonia or cancer. How does that tie into the grand theory?
An asteroid passing within the orbit of the moon is a near miss (240,000 miles). When it actually goes right through the middle of the earth were it was seven years earlier, you know what they call that? Nothing because it has no freaking meaning.
Sorry, but I'm going to need a little stronger proof that Maura and David were connected to Whitey Bulger and Winter Hill Gang than this.
Bill

2000 miles? That's absurd. Why do you try to make this junk up? 2000 miles? Less than 10 percent of that. Maybe less than 99 percent of that.

Dawn wrote:

Snowy,
I would imagine Pansie writing style is very differnt from mine. We all know that Beagle is always spot on. We know several posters have commented they had look up some of the words he used. I do think some of his poster's are contraversial - However, I don't think anyone can disagree he is obviosly very intelligent and very well educated. He also does not come across as snooty because he is well educated or from New England

Actually, when I was much younger, I got a really great date from a woman sometimes worked with at Sky Harbor in Phoenix. I begged both of us out of a party by saying that I was really an east coast snob and had to decline. Worked great; no party, but one of the best dates ever. So sometimes it's useful to be snotty, even when you're not.

WHITE WASH wrote:

If they can pee in a well I think they
should get a prize Wowzer isn't that
a feat?
Aren't those covers dug down a few hundred feet? And a couple hundred pounds in weight?
<quoted text>

The cement covers on a dug well are above the ground. An artesian also sticks up out of the ground.
Either one would still be a feat.

whiston wrote:

hi Dawn i could come up with plenty of places that would know which mystery gallery Maura worked at,including the IRS and student employment office at umass Amherst.The bigger question as was asked by Mason on the other forum is why is it so important to keep it from the public.I cannot get my brain around that reasoning and yet still say Maura took out 280 dollars and used birth conrol pills,sent emails ,called her teachers etc.As WW asked how did Maura get the Salamones number and as i said only Maura knows if she called them for a place to stay, they dont' remember the call from Maura.take care philip

There is a gallery that, sort of, is no longer there, but was there in 2004. Which may be the reason it's not mentioned. Also, this gallery

Wowzer wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm going to be very upset if someone pees in my well. If I pour a glass of my crystal clear spring water and it comes out yellow someone is going to be in big big trouble.
I don't know why someone would want to pee in a well either especially if it's their well.:O

But just in case, they bring in big trucks full of stuff like chlorine. Which you obviously should never mix with ammonia. Bad, bad, bad for the kidneys.

Mason, my thoughts to #2 above was
just that there was no activity on any of her accounts after that final withdrawal. But Maura may have had access to another card in the works. Not saying this to be so, but a fake ID, some help from a bank teller friend, a new card and pin number and it could take her pretty far. Waitperson jobs, jobs where they don't check much on your background. After the employee new hire went into effect, the IRS wanted the real social security number of my best employee. She faked it and didn't file for many years.....book keeper actually caught it.

oh, and she fled to the hills when we confronted her. No notice, didn't ask for partial check, nothing. Just ran off after 4-5 great years with the company.

Detective Columbo wrote:

Once the westman's heard the thud and acceleration she walked to the window from where the computer was. If it took her even a few seconds she probably would not have seen the truck because it would have turned up BH Rd.
I am stating that she at least walked to the corner of BH Rd. and Rte 112, after that one cannot be sure.
I wish I knew why Maura left Amherst, but I do not have that info and not sure if anyone really does. Maybe someone, but noone that has given the info as of yet.

You should call yourself damage control. You avoid info about Amherst like the plague. You go out of your way to make sure very little comes out of Amherst.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>I'd think you knew there were limits as to what could be posted. Let's say Maura Murray was killed and I knew the killer. I might not have proof, but I could not and would not post information as specific as the killer's name. Going to LE is not an option. What is obscure to people in Connecticut about people in Amherst is not obscure to people in Amherst. Amherst is where Maura Murray disappeared from. Not only that, a lot of detailed theories and so-called information has been discussed for years about Haverhill. Somehow Haverill info is not obscure.

Good reminder, thank you. I'm like a parrot sometimes, braawwck