Where is MAURA MURRAY

Are you kidding?
We are babysitters 24/7!
Shame on anyone who didn't drop what
they where doing and remember every
second of that faithful night!

LA LA LA for those who live in the REAL WORLD they have custody battles they
are fighting,jobs they are doing,
could that actually be why people just
recall every second of the night?

And seriously what's the point?
To have you call them nasty little names? Pick it all apart and tell them
they are wrong.

When was the last time any of you
step up to help someone in need? Please tell us the
cases you have help with personally cause
you went out of your way to do the right thing? Crime is everywhere!
How time you have spent interviewing
with LE,PI's, the Press, Family ect...
Do you friggin even have a guess how
much time people involved gave? For
what your arm chair opinions?

Please.......

Looking4AMoose wrote:

<quoted text> You've never originally brushed something out of your mind then realized later, that it might be important?

I'm not a Nancy Grace fan, but some of the comments on this article come from students who were at UMass with Maura. There are a lot frustrating inaccuracies in some comments, but the ones from people at UMass are worth looking at...

http
://edition.cnn
.com
/2008/CRIME/11/25/grace
.coldcase.murray/
index.html

I also agree with what Moose, Suzanne, and WhiteWash have been saying, in terms of FACTS new to posters, allowing some of us to reevaluate the likelihood of foul play. It does, as Suzanne said, make me more "comfortable" with this strange and tragic mystery, if only because we might better understand why Maura wanted to leave, and might increase the chance she is alive.

IMO new information (to us, not to LE) has made Maura's disappearance and LE's handling of it much more understandable. Plug the facts into some "algorithm for missing people" and the most likely outcome is not foul play at the snowbank on 112.

I was thinking about how Monahan asked RO if she saw ANYone walking on foot. That was closer to the store than the weathered barn, in an apparently different juristdiction too. That was what time again?
Piecing together....if it wasn't Maura or the troubled youth call,.......
maybe it was whoever CW recalls seeing, dashing along.
Did police look into this? Not expecting an answer.......

Thanks for the CNN/NG report Quija.(btw, before I die, I must find out what your name means :>).

Two particular comments I found interesting/informative:

I went to UMass when she disappeared. It's a very sad story and I still check for updates randomly. But this article isn't the whole story. The week before she went missing she was in a car accident with her father's new car. As far as I know there was no repercussions for this, but she was upset. Friends say that she never drove her car (the Saturn) further than the grocery store because it wasn't dependable, so it was quite a shock that she drove it out of Amherst, much less up to NH. One of my best friends was working dorm security the night she left. She knew her casually and said she wasn't herself, very withdrawn and dazed and alone, not forced or rushed.

and

I went to school with Maura; I started her wikipedia page with just a few lines late last spring. Some of us thought the investigators should have seized the computers in the library at UMass to search for clues-- she didn't necessarily use her own computer to disappear, she was too smart for that.

http://
www.edmunds.com/toyota/
t100/1996/consumerreview.2.htm l

"Best I've ever owned

Written by: Fred Murray on 02/16/2004

Detailed Ratings
Overall Rating

Performance: 9 Fun-to-Drive: 10 Build Quality: 10
Comfort: 10 Interior Design: 9 Reliability: 10
Fuel Economy: 10 Exterior Design: 9


Vehicle

1996 Toyota T100 2 Dr SR5 Extended Cab SB

Review

Has been the best vehicle I've ever owned. Doesn't drive like a truck, more like a luxury car. Has gotten a steady 19.5 to 21.5 mpg on the open road since the first day I got it and thats with a full top camper. Even when loaded, handling is solid and responsive. Driven every day to work and back. Still looks like a new truck.

Favorite Features

Confort, power, handling, reliability.

Suggested Improvements

A change in tires to Michelin all terrain.

Was this review helpful? Yes No "

Benjamin Franklyne wrote:

http://
www.edmunds.com/toyota/
t100/1996/consumerreview.2.htm l
"Best I've ever owned
Written by: Fred Murray on 02/16/2004
Detailed Ratings
Overall Rating
Performance: 9 Fun-to-Drive: 10 Build Quality: 10
Comfort: 10 Interior Design: 9 Reliability: 10
Fuel Economy: 10 Exterior Design: 9
Vehicle
1996 Toyota T100 2 Dr SR5 Extended Cab SB
Review
Has been the best vehicle I've ever owned. Doesn't drive like a truck, more like a luxury car. Has gotten a steady 19.5 to 21.5 mpg on the open road since the first day I got it and thats with a full top camper. Even when loaded, handling is solid and responsive. Driven every day to work and back. Still looks like a new truck.
Favorite Features
Confort, power, handling, reliability.
Suggested Improvements
A change in tires to Michelin all terrain.
Was this review helpful? Yes No "

Ben,

There are 285 people in the United States with the name Fred Murray.

Good morning White Wash and all,
White Wash,
If you would not mind, I was wondering if you could make a list of all the so called facts we have been fed that you feel are bold faced lies. I have always felt something was missing from this story, but don't have the inside information to know what is a lie or fact. I think your specific information would be helpful to everyone on this forum.
Regards,
Sara

sophie bean wrote:

It is perfectly clear that anyone who dares tread here who holds any opinion other than that Maura was a ne'er-do-well who deserved whatever happened to he, and her family is merely concealing her ne'er-do-well-ness (cleverly concealed by her academic and athletic accomplishments) is not welcome.
Wait, did I say "not welcome"?
I should have said "will be treated as the lowest of the low, most evil, most depraved, most guilty of SOMETHING creature to ever walk the planet."
Rename your little crap-fest the "Maura Murray bash here" - how productive.
But look out for karma, It's a real bitch.

Must we be subjected to this vile, hateful, venomous explosion of rage?

Sophiebean, Show us where someone, anyone called Maura a ne'er-do-well.

You and your cohorts have destroyed the life of an innocent man, how dare you call anyone "cruel, heartless, cold" (your words). You and the other core members of FIT have painted a picture of SBD, his aged mother and his wife as all being complicit in the disappearance of Maura. You drove SBD out of his home and forced him to move to a distant state where he was not known and would not have fingers pointed at him.

As if this wasn't enough you then went on to implicate and smear several other local citizens and then this metastasized until just about everyone in that region was suspect if not in the crime then in the cover up of a crime.

And then you accuse people on this forum who are seeking the truth of engaging in a "crap-fest." In other words if we don't buy into your view of what went down we are are the lowest of the low.

And then of course as usual we are threatened with karma, being told in your words that it is a real bitch. Well then watch your back because you and others who have destroyed the lives, livelihoods and reputations of innocent people are in for a big wallop of much deserved karma.

I get it now Firecat - You are the Mommy and we are the squabbling children. Well this brat is the rebellious one showing a desire to resist authority, convention and control.

For 4 years or so SB, Mcsmom, Peri, EWB and others had their way spewing their venom and hatred all over the Internet forums. And now a few people dare to talk back to the bullies??? And we hear 'how dare you?'.

I believe Maura ran away to start a new life. This causes an hysterical outpouring of venom from the usual group of people. They never attack what I say because they can't, so instead they attack me personally.

I defend SBD and the locals so this makes me the devil.

They won/can't debate what I say, they can only attack me. When I use the pronouns I/me, I am also including all the others who have been subject to the same kind of attacks.

sophie bean wrote:

I believe that most people here have a sincere interest in finding Maura, however much we might disagree. Most of us can do so respectfully. I am beyond sick and tired of being accused - especially by one person - of being a member of the "elite FIT" chosen sekritly to leak tidbits of misinformation. Best thing to do about that nonsense is to ignore it, because it does NOTHING to help find Maura.
Angry? You'd better believe that I'm angry when someone here has no reason to be here but to trash Maura, her family, and people who are concerned about her. That's as low as it gets.

Once again: Who trashed Maura? Cite your examples of Maura being trashed or shut up..

To Whom It May Concern:

Debate is a form of argument in which one side defends a proposition and the other side attacks it. You are not engaged in debate because you have not attacked my position. If someone doesn't have the facts or logic or intelligence to attack a position, they often resort to the pathetic tactic of attacking the person who takes the position. That's what you have done. If you don't agree with what I have said, put up or shut up.

Debate is the art, skill and science of convincing the other party by means of reason and logic that they are wrong and you are right. It requires objectivity and a logical mind. Spewing venom and hate is the antithesis of logical debate.

Suzanne wrote:

I get it now Firecat - You are the Mommy and we are the squabbling children. Well this brat is the rebellious one showing a desire to resist authority, convention and control.
For 4 years or so SB, Mcsmom, Peri, EWB and others had their way spewing their venom and hatred all over the Internet forums. And now a few people dare to talk back to the bullies??? And we hear 'how dare you?'.
I believe Maura ran away to start a new life. This causes an hysterical outpouring of venom from the usual group of people. They never attack what I say because they can't, so instead they attack me personally.
I defend SBD and the locals so this makes me the devil.
They won/can't debate what I say, they can only attack me. When I use the pronouns I/me, I am also including all the others who have been subject to the same kind of attacks.

STANDING oo00ooVATION FOR YOU MS SUZANNE!

Couldn't have said it better!

Suzanne wrote:

<quoted text>
Must we be subjected to this vile, hateful, venomous explosion of rage?
Sophiebean, Show us where someone, anyone called Maura a ne'er-do-well.
You and your cohorts have destroyed the life of an innocent man, how dare you call anyone "cruel, heartless, cold" (your words). You and the other core members of FIT have painted a picture of SBD, his aged mother and his wife as all being complicit in the disappearance of Maura. You drove SBD out of his home and forced him to move to a distant state where he was not known and would not have fingers pointed at him.
As if this wasn't enough you then went on to implicate and smear several other local citizens and then this metastasized until just about everyone in that region was suspect if not in the crime then in the cover up of a crime.
And then you accuse people on this forum who are seeking the truth of engaging in a "crap-fest." In other words if we don't buy into your view of what went down we are are the lowest of the low.
And then of course as usual we are threatened with karma, being told in your words that it is a real bitch. Well then watch your back because you and others who have destroyed the lives, livelihoods and reputations of innocent people are in for a big wallop of much deserved karma.

Hey Sara,
Bold Faced lies.
1. Maura was asked to leave West Point.
2. Maura was upset that weekend and Fred's statement of "we'll work it out as we always do" proves that.
3.Maura took her car and drove it to the
White Mountains.
4.Maura was drinking DNA from the air bags will prove this.
5.Maura locked that car and walked away.
6.People indeed did search for Maura.
7.People indeed did search for Maura repeatly over the years.
8.LE left several messages for Fred Murray who was out of town and on
a cell phone and this is LE fault how?
9.If LE managed to reach Kathleen & Maura's Mother's proves they indeed where search for Maura long before stated by Fred.
10.There was no damaged caused by the towing company.
11.The storage of the car while impounded was correct.
12.CW was not running his mouth in the
stage stop. He indeed told his neighbors
who told him to call the police and he did. The wife told the store own who called Fred.
12.PI's had been hired earlier and quit
why?
13.People on this forum have proven over and over they can get a response from LE regardless may not be the answers anyone wants but they get answers.
14.People have smeared every person out there who came to help someone who didn't want their help. TFW,BA,CW
everyone from NHSP to the local deputy
have been accused of terrible acts.
Seriously someone who walks away from
an accident that deployed the air
bags didn't want to be there. And
many saw only one pair of foot prints!

Are you good or should I keep going?

Sara wrote:

Good morning White Wash and all,
White Wash,
If you would not mind, I was wondering if you could make a list of all the so called facts we have been fed that you feel are bold faced lies. I have always felt something was missing from this story, but don't have the inside information to know what is a lie or fact. I think your specific information would be helpful to everyone on this forum.
Regards,
Sara

WHITE WASH wrote:

Hey Sara,
Bold Faced lies.
1. Maura was asked to leave West Point.
2. Maura was upset that weekend and Fred's statement of "we'll work it out as we always do" proves that.
3.Maura took her car and drove it to the
White Mountains.
4.Maura was drinking DNA from the air bags will prove this.
5.Maura locked that car and walked away.
6.People indeed did search for Maura.
7.People indeed did search for Maura repeatly over the years.
8.LE left several messages for Fred Murray who was out of town and on
a cell phone and this is LE fault how?
9.If LE managed to reach Kathleen & Maura's Mother's proves they indeed where search for Maura long before stated by Fred.
10.There was no damaged caused by the towing company.
11.The storage of the car while impounded was correct.
12.CW was not running his mouth in the
stage stop. He indeed told his neighbors
who told him to call the police and he did. The wife told the store own who called Fred.
12.PI's had been hired earlier and quit
why?
13.People on this forum have proven over and over they can get a response from LE regardless may not be the answers anyone wants but they get answers.
14.People have smeared every person out there who came to help someone who didn't want their help. TFW,BA,CW
everyone from NHSP to the local deputy
have been accused of terrible acts.
Seriously someone who walks away from
an accident that deployed the air
bags didn't want to be there. And
many saw only one pair of foot prints!
Are you good or should I keep going?
<quoted text>

Thank you for this information White Wash. I hope my questions are not making you upset as that is not my intention at all. I am just trying to muddle through then murky waters.
I am a little confused though.
Are these things listed the lies i.e (Maura was asked to leave West point),(Maura was upset that weekend and Fred's statement of "we'll work it out as we always do" proves that),(Maura took her car and drove it to the White Mountains). So are you saying Maura was not asked to leave West point, Maura was not upset that weekend, Maura did not take her car to the White Mtns?
Sorry for the confusion, but appreciate you answering my questions.

Regards

Suzanne wrote:

<quoted text>
Must we be subjected to this vile, hateful, venomous explosion of rage?
Sophiebean, Show us where someone, anyone called Maura a ne'er-do-well.
You and your cohorts have destroyed the life of an innocent man, how dare you call anyone "cruel, heartless, cold" (your words). You and the other core members of FIT have painted a picture of SBD, his aged mother and his wife as all being complicit in the disappearance of Maura. You drove SBD out of his home and forced him to move to a distant state where he was not known and would not have fingers pointed at him.
As if this wasn't enough you then went on to implicate and smear several other local citizens and then this metastasized until just about everyone in that region was suspect if not in the crime then in the cover up of a crime.
And then you accuse people on this forum who are seeking the truth of engaging in a "crap-fest." In other words if we don't buy into your view of what went down we are are the lowest of the low.
And then of course as usual we are threatened with karma, being told in your words that it is a real bitch. Well then watch your back because you and others who have destroyed the lives, livelihoods and reputations of innocent people are in for a big wallop of much deserved karma.

**********

Just one moment here.
I have NEVER once said anything about SBD - to whom I guess you're referring - other than to say that his story is inconsistent, which is nothing but the fact as clear in police and media record. I have OFTEN stressed, loudly, that no one should be discussed as a "suspect" unless they have in fact been named by the police as a suspect.
Every time that SBD's name has been used, I have said "don't use a person's name."
I have NEVER, ever REMOTELY said that I consider anyone local a "suspect" - that's not my job. If there are inconsistencies in accounts, that is well within the purvue of our discussion, and I have NEVER done ANYTHING but that!

When Chris King tried to paint GF as GUILTY of Maura's disappearance, I was the FIRST to say that while I find him scary and dangerous (as he's been convicted!), I do not believe he is connected to Maura's disappearance.

You have NO idea what you're SCREAMING about - with your nonsense about a select insider "FIT" - never existed, is a complete fabrication. The term applied by Weeper applied to ALL in the discussion, as everyone who was there - you were NOT - is well aware, whether they choose to admit it or not.

"Must we be subjected to this vile, hateful, venomous explosion of rage?"
If you're going to attack families of victims in a "cruel, heartless, cold" manner, as you just did Nicholas Garza's, you (personally, unless you're using the royal "we") may continue to expect outrage in response.

Show me, if you can, ONE incidence where I (not "the FIT", but I personally)
"slandered" any local person or anyone, for that matter.
And oh by the way, you can't call it "slander" if I'm inquiring about the potential presence of a KNOWN AND CONVICTED OFFENDER in the area - obviously NOT "a local."

I have NEVER said, and I'd take a whole lot more convincing than I've had to date, that a LOCAL to the area is responsible for Maura's disappearance, If you say otherwise, you are LYING!
I believe that if Maura was abducted, it was most likely NOT by a local!

If push comes to shove, yes, I absolutely believe that those who murdered Chris Gray or Mr. Powell are perfectly capable of abducting Maura. That is not "slander" (or is it "libel"???)- they are convicte felons.

If you've got some problem with all of this, I once again seriously question your interest in finding MAURA.

You want to keep this "all about Suzanne" - it's not going to happen. Period.

No I'm saying that Maura was asked to leave West Point.

Well there are several posts on this forum that
clear depict Maura as being upset prior to the
weekend and after the car accident.

Maura indeed took her car to the White Mountains!

See the problem with Murky Waters is that if someone keeps stirring them they never settle down
so you CAN SEE WHAT'S ON THE BOTTOM!

Sara wrote:

<quoted text>
Thank you for this information White Wash. I hope my questions are not making you upset as that is not my intention at all. I am just trying to muddle through then murky waters.
I am a little confused though.
Are these things listed the lies i.e (Maura was asked to leave West point),(Maura was upset that weekend and Fred's statement of "we'll work it out as we always do" proves that),(Maura took her car and drove it to the White Mountains). So are you saying Maura was not asked to leave West point, Maura was not upset that weekend, Maura did not take her car to the White Mtns?
Sorry for the confusion, but appreciate you answering my questions.
Regards

Just one moment here, Suzanne.

I have NEVER once said anything about SBD - to whom I guess you're referring - other than to say that his story is inconsistent, which is nothing but the fact as clear in police and media record. I have OFTEN stressed, loudly, that no one should be discussed as a "suspect" unless they have in fact been named by the police as a suspect.
Every time that SBD's name has been used, I have said "don't use a person's name."
I have NEVER, ever REMOTELY said that I consider anyone local a "suspect" - that's not my job. If there are inconsistencies in accounts, that is well within the purvue of our discussion, and I have NEVER done ANYTHING but that!

When Chris King tried to paint GF as GUILTY of Maura's disappearance, I was the FIRST to say that while I find him scary and dangerous (as he's been convicted!), I do not believe he is connected to Maura's disappearance.

You have NO idea what you're SCREAMING about - with your nonsense about a select insider "FIT" - never existed, is a complete fabrication. The term applied by Weeper applied to ALL in the discussion, as everyone who was there - you were NOT - is well aware, whether they choose to admit it or not.

"Must we be subjected to this vile, hateful, venomous explosion of rage?"
If you're going to attack families of victims in a "cruel, heartless, cold" manner, as you just did Nicholas Garza's, you (personally, unless you're using the royal "we") may continue to expect outrage in response.

Show me, if you can, ONE incidence where I (not "the FIT", but I personally)
"slandered" any local person or anyone, for that matter.
And oh by the way, you can't call it "slander" if I'm inquiring about the potential presence of a KNOWN AND CONVICTED OFFENDER in the area - obviously NOT "a local."

I have NEVER said, and I'd take a whole lot more convincing than I've had to date, that a LOCAL to the area is responsible for Maura's disappearance, If you say otherwise, you are LYING!
I believe that if Maura was abducted, it was most likely NOT by a local!

If push comes to shove, yes, I absolutely believe that those who murdered Chris Gray or Mr. Powell are perfectly capable of abducting Maura. That is not "slander" (or is it "libel"???)- they are convicte felons.

If you've got some problem with all of this, I once again seriously question your interest in finding MAURA.

You want to keep this "all about Suzanne" - it's not going to happen. Period.

White Wash wrote:

No I'm saying that Maura was asked to leave West Point.
Well there are several posts on this forum that
clear depict Maura as being upset prior to the
weekend and after the car accident.
Maura indeed took her car to the White Mountains!
See the problem with Murky Waters is that if someone keeps stirring them they never settle down
so you CAN SEE WHAT'S ON THE BOTTOM!
<quoted text>

Thank you for the clarification.

part 1
White Wash, I am confused.
You wrote:
"Bold Faced lies.1. Maura was asked to leave West Point."
You mean that this is true. How, if so, was that proved and by whom? Who asked her to leave, and for what reason? I'm not saying that it isn't true, I'm simply not aware of it. Furthermore, what bearing does this, if true, have on the case?
"2. Maura was upset that weekend and Fred's statement of "we'll work it out as we always do" proves that."
Is this true - or not - in your opinion? There were statements by the supervisor/dorm monitor that she was "hysterical" and neede to be assited to her room - these were, I believe, in the media. Are you saying that she WASN'T upset? Again, I'm just confusd.
"3.Maura took her car and drove it to theWhite Mountains."
To my knowledge, no one here can say that definitely one way or the other - it cannot be a "bold faced lie." We simply don't know.
"4.Maura was drinking DNA from the air bags will prove this."
Again, since this is a scientific test the results of which are not available to us, we cannot know the answer, so it cannot be a "bold faced lie."
"5.Maura locked that car and walked away."
We cannot know this. It cannot be a "bold faced lie"
"6.People indeed did search for Maura."
You can't mean that this is a "bold faced lie." Everyone here knows that some people did/have/do searched/search for Maura.
"7.People indeed did search for Maura repeatly over the years."
as above
"8.LE left several messages for Fred Murray who was out of town and on
a cell phone and this is LE fault how?"
Again, don't see how this is/isn't a "bold faced lie" but you're right if you're saying that it's not LE's fault if Fred didn't answer a mesage they left for him.
"9.If LE managed to reach Kathleen & Maura's Mother's proves they indeed where search for Maura long before stated by Fred."
I just don't understand this one.
"10.There was no damaged caused by the towing company."
Is this considered true or "another bold-faced lie"? I have seen no evidence that the car was damaged by the tow truck at the scene.
"11.The storage of the car while impounded was correct."
I agree, that is a bold-faced lie. To store a car "impounded" in a missing persons case in an unsecured area is NOT correct by any SOP in this universe.