Where is MAURA MURRAY

Beagle wrote:

When did Maura Murray leave West Point (USMA)?
How many classes or semesters did Maura complete at West Point?
When did Maura first attend UMass?

I believe Maura left West Point before the end of her second year. I don't know the other answers.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>Thank you very much.
Are water exercises very common for someone with the kind of leg injury Maura Murray had? Hardly ever used? Used most of the time? About half and half? Just looking for a ballpark guess as to whether Maura was using a swimming pool before she disappeared. Again, thank you very much.

I have no idea. They are often prescribed by doctors and/or physical therapists, if it's a serious enough injury to go to one. I DO NOT KNOW IF THAT WAS THE CASE WITH MAURA. I also don't know if she was someone who would follow through with those sorts of exercises. I, for one, was told if I wanted to cross-train through a couple of stress fractures last year, I could swim or do "water running."

I love the water, and I love to horse around in the water, and I love to kayak. But I am not a good swimmer, by any stretch of the imagination. I am, to be entirely accurate, a "non-drowner" at best. Coupled with my limited access to a swimming pool, that pretty much meant I did not do that.

I CANNOT ANSWER THIS QUESTION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AS IT PERTAINS TO MAURA. Usually these exercises are given for someone who is in active training and cannot lose conditioning. I don't know if this was the case with Maura. I simply don't. I don't know how bad her injury was--it doesn't seem to have prevented her from running altogether--or how interested she was in water sports, or if she even saw anyone about the injury or just went about the "RICE" (rest, ice, compression, elevation) strategy that is common.

(I've been wondering, since answering your question originally, if this meant if you were going to go off on a chlorinated swimming pool tangent......guess now I know.)

Beagle wrote:

I'll repeat that found three reputable people. I requested they tell me that Maura Murray was asked to leave West Point because of an honor code violation. All three complied.

haha.

OK, everyone, just let it go and keep brainstorming without the WP source information, if the lack of named sources makes it sound like bull to you. It probably makes no difference, anyway, except in support of Maura being upset and unsure of her future. I know many have confirmed this for themselves after understandably not believing me. I do apologize for acting like I'm withholding some "gem", but it's only the names of those who told me.

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
positive:
*a future between Maura and Billy was understood to the degree that it was shared with Sharon
*goals were considered and formulated with regard to graduation/marriage/honeymoon
*that these plans were communicated to Sharon, either by Billy and/or Maura
her disappearance was/is an otherwise inexplicable conclusion to a positively anticipated outcome.

thank you for explaining

friend of maura wrote:

This is common knowledge in certain circles of people who are close to the family.
http://www.geocities.com/maura_alive/Index.ht...

anyone wishing to report this post to the police and the one on geocities and other claims made by posters who are witholding information from a criminal investigation or stating untrue allegations may complain in writing to:

missingpersons@safety.state.nh .us

Snowy White wrote:

<quoted text>
not really

Yes, yes I really do find it odd.

Nice Work Snowy Thanks so in Jan 2002 she was running so how about 03 and 04 any way to get those stats?

Snowy White wrote:

searching is still a bear on Topix, and one of my computers is slow to load...so "someone" who posted on the 'new' site about Lady Gray's previous links to Maura's team participation at UMASS may forgive me for asking repetitive questions. i won't hold my breath.
meanwhile, google brings up 2002 stats.
http://www.gonu.com/wtrack/2002/tuftsinvit.ht...
regardless, my original question was pointing toward WHEN she was injured, how long she might have been benched/sidelined from UMASS team practice/competition, and whether the injury would have prevented her from competing during the year she disappeared.
the questions were prompted by Beagle's insistence that vitamins/supplements may be involved...and i'd think conclusions can't be drawn without the above information.

Well if Bill and Fred took a key that
was hiding on the Saturn to start it
at Lavoies my GUESS whould be there
where no keys or Lavoies or LE would
have given those to Fred.

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
Bill checked out information re: 1996 Saturns and posted it on the other Maura forum, and you are correct the mechanism available now which shuts off an engine automatically was not available in
1996 Saturns, apologize for my error in information, this applies to new models.
What the Saturn did have was a Electronic Data Recorder EDR/Vetronix Corporation, California
The following list is of 1996 model cars that come standard with EDRs, according to the Accident Reconstruction Network:
Buick Riviera
Buick Skylark
Chevrolet Astro
Chevrolet Camaro
Chevrolet Cavalier
Chevrolet Express
GMC Safari
GMC Savana
Oldsmobile Achie
Oldsmobile Aurora
Pontiac Firebird
Pontiac Grand AM
Pontiac Sunfire
All Saturn models
what an EDR keeps in "Black Box"
speed preeceeding prior to and at time of crash
RPM's
if a car skid
if a car was TOWED
throddle position
seat belt engaged or not engaged
braking, if and when applied
time of airbag deployment
ignition cycle
diagnotic trouble codes
whether the car moved after the accident (backed up as indicated by JM)
*air bags in Saturns have known to deploy with being involved in an accident, i.e floor pan stricking an object, such as snowbank, bumpy roads, and simply for no reason deploying, and known also not to deploy in an accident.
Change topic: QUESTION: How were the keys removed from the ignition if the car was in neutral? Is it possible to place the car in NEUTRAL without the keys? Did someone jimmy the
ignition to extract the keys?
Change topic: The EDR will answer a number of questions as to whether there was a previous accident before the one at the Weatherbarn,
and perhaps if the car accident at the weatherbarn was stagged.
Presumably a law enforcement reconstructionist has examined the data from the EDR, and compared this information with the physical data from the accident scene at the weatherbarn.
*My personal opinion is that the information from the EDR should be made available to a private autoreconstructionist for a second opinion, this is often done, a second autopsy, other forensic labs etc. in criminal cases where evidence findings are in dispute. The information from the EDR would answer many questions and rule out the varying testimonies of the witnesses, which differ greatly, and the EDR information would be indisputable determining if there were two accidents and if the airbags deployed at the accident at the Weatherbarn.
p.s. I know you have questioned the car in neutral position, here and previously on the MMM forum? Do we have an answer how the Saturn keys were extracted/or the car placed in neutral with no keys?
What th

Dark out JM must have great night vison
to measure 33 feet from the center line
knowing it wasn't his property.

Choose not to get involved the night
of the accident. Very interesting statement Art.

It was 06 when I witness he and Weeper
chatting in his drive way!

The FIT where all up at arms that
nobody came to help her in the middle
of now where! And JM is the star silent
Witness!

Interesting well atleast to me since regardless of the position of an accident I still would have called
911 especially given the location of
JM house assuming the Westmans called
would be a huge gamble.

Old Timer wrote:

WW wrote:
"Obvisously JM was home odd he didn't come out since the accident was on his property!
Even odder that he didn't call 911 to report and accident on his property!"
==========
The accident might have happened in front of his property, but NOT ON HIS PROPERTY. The state owns to 33 Ft. from the center line, this makes the trees by the accident scene owned by the state. JM did not call 911 probably because the accident was Not on his property and really had no reason to call. He probably figured the westman's had called and also saw the bus stop there, maybe he did not want to get involved.
Art

It wasn't I who posted the records where
destroyed at West Point.

I didn't state she was asked to leave UMASS!

I stated my sources have comfirmed she
was asked to leave West Point since I
did not have written comfirmation I didn't publish that. Doesn't mean
I don't believe my source nor I have
given up trying to get that comfirmation.

And to be clear again I know who and what I am! I have zero NEED to prove anything
to you or anyone on this website!

Please enough with the water torture I'm all set with the Threats but thanks!

I trust my sources I can do zip about your trust issues.

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
That is the point WW, people state things, they are researched and found out to be true or not to be true, such as Muara was NOT asked to leave U of Mass, and Maura seen in this place and that, and when the notion doesn't pan out; do they leave it go, NO they do not, ad infinitum it is repeated.
Your "great source" (strange source of words) that told you Maura was asked to leave West Point, I presume this to be a leak, either from West Point, University of Mass or the police, and as some of the other information you present seems to be a leak from police, I suspect this is your GREAT source.
Forgot Ouija mentioned it as well, sorry.
Since it is military it is doubtful the records were destroyed. Why would they be destroyed unless Maura filed a complaint and it was covered up, why would they ever be destroyed? My guess if this happened the source is traceable, as military information is secret, and information on applications to University's are confidential as well, and since Maura was not in the business of revealing information about herself and the Murray family have not stated this, then someone who worked on the inside and revealed the information or it came from the police.
If true it got leaked. Stating uequivically military records were destroyed says it came from the inside, someone on the inside would be the only way to know if the records were destroyed. If the records destroyed then how is the information available to a plebian.
No matter the source, how do you figure if Maura was asked to leave West Point that it had anything to do with her disappearance in Haverhill? Someone followed her to Haverhill from the University of Mass and was stalking her and thus the reason for her flight from school. This implies a fairly complicated operation, and one likely needed more than one person. Why too if someone was being followed would they go to the back woods, without cell phone coverage, in a poorly working car, and a Maura never have driven in the winter before, seems like there would be safer places to hide out THAN in the White Mountains and ALONE. Seems very unlikely. Unless of course Maura filed a complaint re: sexual harrassement and someone had reason to keep her quiet.
I'm sorry to doubt the information, however, that is the problem without stating sources, and information that either the family does not know or witheld, it is not rocket science to follow the possible sources.
There are many untruth floating around, and you seem to be the author of some of them, so you will pardon if I question your "Great Source."
You state a fact, and when challenged you don't respond, that is your choice, except you simply diminish your credibility in my eyes, others are free to choose what they believe.

WHITE WASH wrote:

Well if Bill and Fred took a key that
was hiding on the Saturn to start it
at Lavoies my GUESS whould be there
where no keys or Lavoies or LE would
have given those to Fred.
<quoted text>

I completely do not understand this post,
presumably LE/Lavoies got a key from a dealer
Fred arrived with a spare key,
Fred picked one up at the Saturn dealer,
law enforcement found the keys in the car,
an extra set the was hidden above the wheel.

LE had already entered the car and conducted a
search, airbags and other evidence were taken
into evidence from the car, i.e. 5 litre wine box
Is this your meaning.

The point is how were the keys extracted from the car when the car was in the position of neutral?

Possible answer:

all cars with a console, have an opening into the gear shift, small hole, it is possible to insert a screw-driver into the hole and the gears can be moved to the postion of NEUTRAL. Also, a jimmy could be used to open the car, long alloy metal
(soft) with hook like feature at end.

LE obviously used a jimmy to access the car, these are widely available, tow truck drivers have these, and any number of other individuals,
and it is possible to make one.

It is possible to break into someone's car no problem, possible to place car in neutral,
possible to move or tow a car

Safety feature of cars, if they are abaondoned, keys are lost, ignition broken. The steering mechanism remains locked.

Conclusion it is a possibility that the saturn
was moved, towed. Keys cannot be extracted from
a vehicle when the car in in neutral.

Therefore one can conclude, Maura did not leave the car in the position of neutral, it is doubtful
she knew about the screw-driver in the gear shift
and she would have had no need to do this, unless at the scene of the accident she lost her keys?

The evidence suggests the car was towed or moved
after the accident by someone other than Maura, speculation and assumption deducted from evidence,
re: doors locked and car in position of neutral.

Yesterday a Mazda car salesman/dealer
showed me the small opening on the console of
a Mazda, I inserted a screw driver and moved
the gear to the postion of neutral, piece of cake

Fancy cars have a gear lock/unlock box, can be
placed in locked postion to reduce the possibility
of stealing the car, by towing, jump starting.

Sara wrote:

<quoted text>
It seems odd to me that Maura had talked about a wedding date without having a ring/official engagement or telling her father.

Sara, the commitment and plan to marry could have easily pre-dated "the ring" by days/weeks/months/years. after all, Sharon's knowledge of an anticipated engagement did not constitute a formal announcement.

of course, stability according to the couple's educational status/current and future employment/geographic location would also factor in.
and the cost/puchase of the desired ring is also a timing consideration.

IF Fred was/is a disapproving father...as some statements suggest (my extended apologies to Mason), then Maura certainly might not have shared her plans with him.

makes perfect sense to me.

WHITE WASH wrote:

Dark out JM must have great night vison
to measure 33 feet from the center line
knowing it wasn't his property.
Choose not to get involved the night
of the accident. Very interesting statement Art.
It was 06 when I witness he and Weeper
chatting in his drive way!
The FIT where all up at arms that
nobody came to help her in the middle
of now where! And JM is the star silent
Witness!
Interesting well atleast to me since regardless of the position of an accident I still would have called
911 especially given the location of
JM house assuming the Westmans called
would be a huge gamble.
<quoted text>

JM cannot be held to a standard that his neighbours did not hold up to, no one came out to help or to check on the accident victim, until the SBD came alone. JM appears to be the only witness who has not CHANGED his testimony of what occured at the scene of the accident, so indeed he is the "Star Silent Witness".

Given your statement that FW states that SBD came
along only a BRIEF period after the accident,now 1-2 minutes and not 5 minutes as previously stated by FW. It is possible JM might not have looked out immediately, and since he saw the car back up and park parellel to the driveway, he might have assumed that the person was OK, at least capable of backing the car up.

Thus perhaps in his mind it was a fender-bender,
the evidence at the accident scene; hearing only
a thump, and the person backing up the vehicle
perhaps he assumed it was a wait and see event,
and if SBD was litterally on the scene within a
minute, I see no negligence on his part, re: his
disavantage sight plane of the accident scene re: cover of trees, seeing no one else came out of
their house to check things out, given he is much
older than his neighbours, and the person in the vehicle was able to drive, JM appears to have acted appropriately.

He likely assumed the SBD was going to call 911, and given the SBD left the scene as reported by
FW after only a brief period, 1-2 minutes, previously stated 5 minutes. JM diligently watched the school bus driver, and he reported that the school bus driver , "backed his bus up the driveway and remainded there a long time",(the SBD was obviously in no hurry to call 911, also JM could visualize the person outside the car (shadows) and the trunk and inside lights turning off and on, therefore since the SBD seemed to be in no hurry to call 911 and the person was outside the vehicle, to JM likely there appeared to be no immediate danger or a necessity to call 911.

Without JM's testimony, we would not know the car was moved/backed up? FW appears not to have seen the car back up, or witheld this information? SGT S report gives no indication that the car backed up. FW report to 911 operator indicates that the car was backed up, see Grafton
County Sherriff's log.

FW/911 call reported RM 1927-1929
car was headed eastbound, ended up in the Westbound lane, facing Westbound.

Sgt. S 1946 arrival time
car was in heading in eastboundlane, ended up
in eastboundlane facing westbound.

SBD 1928-1929 comes along
call received by Hanover 1943
1943 Hanover calls Haverhill to relay message 1943

Interesting to note: RM makes no note of FW saying that the SBD came alone while they were on the phone 19 minutes per: Grafton
County Sherriff log.

FW allegedly remained on the phone until 1946 when Sgt. Smith arrives, according to YOUR summation of FW's memory of events, yet no mention of SBD coming along.

above statement should read, mistake

JM saw the car back up and park parallel to the road, NOT DRIVEWAY

A blessed Easter to all the posters, and to Maura's loved ones, I pray God Speed Maura will
soon be found.

From reading all of the posts on here, it seems many of the locals posting on here have maintained that in their community people are always helping out each other and look out for one another ie helping pull people out of snow, ect.
I am in no way doubting that this is true as it has been stated many times by a couple of different people. My question is what stopped the witnesses from going out to the wreck and making sure the person did not need help.
They obviously felt it was serious enough to call 911 and they saw
/heard the accident before SBD ever came along.

friend of maura wrote:

This is common knowledge in certain circles of people who are close to the family.
http://www.geocities.com/maura_alive/Index.ht...

Resurrection Sunday?

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
anyone wishing to report this post to the police and the one on geocities and other claims made by posters who are witholding information from a criminal investigation or stating untrue allegations may complain in writing to:
missingpersons@safety.state.nh .us

how disturbing. if i understand corrrectly, "peri" is an anonymous internet poster from nova scotia (my paternal grandmother's roots), who chooses and encourage others to manipulate the limits of free speech and free thinking by suggesting it is criminal to write a statement of opinion on a forum of opinion.
more disturbing, still, is the intimation that she is associated with and respected as an unnamed, but recognized psychic by police authorities by her contributions to several investigations nationwide.
talk about smelling something foul....
peri, your accusation to the poster of the geocities link is threatening, and if you disagree with the statement made, do so by refuting it in fact. otherwise, you're bullying.

Just some things I noticed with that geocities post... The writing doesn't seem familiar to me.... Doesn't seem like anyone who posts here regularly....

Examples:

1. Maura is living a content and satisfying life in the Province of Quebec.

"Content" instead of "contented".
"Province of Quebec" instead of the way most of us just say "Quebec".

2 and 3. Maura's being asked to leave West Point and all the ensuing criticism by her father was the beginning of a certain line of thought for Maura, culminating...

Don't remember ever reading the phrase here "a certain line of thought"

"Maura's being asked" vs. "Maura having been asked"

4. Maura's relationship with William Rausch was near its end. According to Maura's sister Kathleen, they were having 'serious problems.'

No comma before "Kathleen"
Not the usual quotes around 'serious problems'.

5. On the night of February 5 2004 Maura took a break from her job at the security desk at a UMass dormitory to go and briefly get coffee and some food.

Odd word order... "to go and briefly get coffee..." instead of "to briefly go out and get..."

Odd that there's no comma after Feb. 5.....

6. Sometime between 12 MN and 1 AM Maura driving her Saturn struck and critically injured the UMass student Petrit Vasi leaving him for dead.

I have never seen anyone here use "MN" for midnight.


7. Between 2 and 3 AM on the morning of Sunday Feb 8 Maura had a second motor vehicle accident wrecking her father's new car.

No comma after "accident"

8. Fred Murray's new car was towed around 3 AM to his Hadley motel room. Maura arrived at Fred's motel at the same time as a passenger in the tow truck.

Leaving out a comma after after "same time" makes this sentence unclear.

9. Fred was not happy with Maura to put it mildly.

Weird there's no comma or dash after "Maura"

10. Fred Murray has a history of domestic violence.

This is interesting because it's something a neighbor, LE, a P.I., or family member would know about from when Fred lived there and this occurred.

11. She and her new boyfriend travelled in tandem to Route 112 in NH (He was already in Southern NH).

Poor grammar/punctuation in dealing with the material in the parentheses...

ANYway, this seems to have been posted by someone whose writing I'm not familiar with, someone who didn't go to college or wasn't in advanced classes in high school, someone who just quickly wrote this and didn't really care about getting it "right", or someone disguising his/her writing. Don't know what the heck that means...