Where is MAURA MURRAY

whiston wrote:

hi all.Joe Mcgee mentions in his story for the concord monitor that.Sarah Alfieri met Maura when they both worked at galleries.did they work together.did they work at more than one gallery.CITIGIRL could you call Sarah and ask her if she worked with Maura and where.the video of Brook Bennet at the cumberland farms in vt has been shown over and over.just guessing here .Maura was not alone on the video at the bank or liquor store.still guessing. the ATM was a drive up and Maura was not in the saturn because it was either gone or being concealed.also Mauras older sister Kathleen had Mauras computer for 3 months and did not look at it as was posted here.Billy Rausch and Julie Murray are both west point grads .whats wrong with this story.why would the family not put out any facts about Mauras life.what do they know that could do so much harm and to whom.if Maura chose to leave without a trace some of the above would make sense .would she have put herself on camera in 2 places if she planned to vanish.which brings me back to did she even leave amherst. keep digging philip

Good questions.

How do you know the ATM was a drive-up?
Was it attached to a branch office of a bank or just by itself in a parking lot? Sure it was not a kiosk-style with doors?

The Brooke Bennett case is a little strange, at least to the public, I think.

Two things caught my attention about the security tape. First, there was little if any reason for Miss Bennett to have gone into the store. She didn't buy anything or even have much to do with the uncle. It was almost as if they were there in order to document their presence, although I cannot imagine why.

But what really caught my attention was the woman who was standing near the window, upper left corner, and obviously was watching Miss Bennett and the uncle leave. She then immediately leaves in with what might have been some urgency, also apparently without having made a purchase and follows Miss Bennett. Like she was expecting her or heard some conversation between Miss Bennett and her uncle.

It seems unlikely in the extreme, but I have to wonder sometimes if there isn't a kind of underground railroad for victims of abuse. Which, frankly, I would applaud. If someone cannot reasonably get away from their antagonist and there is a history of violence or abuse, then "disable" the abuser or completely disappear. Or both.

For example, I am extremely happy to see at least a few women now getting early release from jail after having been convicted of killing their abusive husbands. These women never should have been convicted in the first place. They should have been rewarded.

Sorry, Whiston, just noticed you were hypothesizing about the ATM.

hi Beagle i dont know if the ATM was a drive up or not.take care philip

BeagleBart,

Sorry to learn of your nasty experience there.

Perhaps it would be time to try to get the local/regional New England media interested in Maura´s case again?
It seems to me, from what I have been able to see, that their coverage has been pretty much nil for some time now. Not good.

Another thought:

It was recently pointed out on this board that the unknown Maura look-alike in the Barton,VT, church back in June 2005 actually had signed the visitors book with the name "Raykel".

Unless this young lady more or less forged her signature, it should certainly be fairly easy to compare her hand-writing with that of Maura´s.
A hand-writing expert would be able to tell a lot here! Was this ever done?

This kind of comparison might of course prove to be vitally important in order to rule this possible sighting out or not.

Does anybody here know whether "Raykel´s" signature in the vistors book was ever checked out properly?
I wish we could find this out as soon as possible!

Comments & ideas, please.
Thanks!

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text>
Speaking of Billy, does anyone think its odd that he's so tightly involved with the Obama campaign but has yet to mention his missing girlfriend? Seriously, wouldn't you mention it if you had the press eating out of your hands?

Just as odd as the tight involvement of the Grafton County Sheriff in the McCain campaign. Which is... not odd at all. Or is it?
Seriously, does everything have to be a conspiracy?
Perhaps Bill enjoys continuing his service to his country in a civil manner. Perhaps it also helps to take his mind off of the pain of Maura's disappearance. Whether he has or hasn't mentioned Maura makes no difference.. it wouldn't be on topic for a presidential campaign video and would probably be edited out of the final production.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>Pike we have nothing to hide. We have been out there searching for Maura for over 4 years. Finding Maura is our number 1 priority.

Has anyone been searching in the Amherst/Northampton area? Along the Connecticut River?

Saturnus wrote:

<quoted text>
Just as odd as the tight involvement of the Grafton County Sheriff in the McCain campaign. Which is... not odd at all. Or is it?
Seriously, does everything have to be a conspiracy?
Perhaps Bill enjoys continuing his service to his country in a civil manner. Perhaps it also helps to take his mind off of the pain of Maura's disappearance. Whether he has or hasn't mentioned Maura makes no difference.. it wouldn't be on topic for a presidential campaign video and would probably be edited out of the final production.

I think the poster was saying that if Billy had time and energy enough to devote to Obama's campaign, then why not time and energy to discuss Maura's disappearance a little, especially when he could be so helpful. Presumably, he as assisted LE, which is the actual investigative service here, not a discussion board, so I can see the previous poster's point, but I sure can sympathize with Billy's not wanting to publicly talk about a very painful part of his past. He, like everyone, has to go forward.

Did he also lose a sister? Way too much pain for such a young, upstanding guy. Best of luck to him.

just me--Paris wrote:

<quoted text>Are you serious? That's just wrong, I hope you find out that some kid is out of hand or something. Do you really feel that this bit of info you referred to would make someone come to you like that? Maybe you should ask editors to take your addy off.

Thanks, but if I cannot go to the police, for reasons I've already stated, and if I cannot trust a PI, for unstated but solid reasons, and if I cannot indict someone myself, which I sure cannot do, then the only choice I have is to get him or her to come to me.

It may be unlikely, I suppose, but somewhat possible that the perp or perp's confederate was in my backyard a couple of nights ago. So my address stands.

Those who want to apply pressure to Haverhill, hoping someone there will come forward, well, that's your perogative. But I'm applying it, a little differently, where I think the problem is - between Bellows Falls and Amherst/Northampton. I'm just not expecting them to "come forward" in the same way.

The name "Quelland" mean anything to anyone? Thanks.

What happened to Vasi's clothes that he was wearing when he was taken from the scene by ambulance?

whiston wrote:

Maura was not alone on the video at the bank or liquor store.still guessing. the ATM was a drive up and Maura was not in the saturn because it was either gone or being concealed.also Mauras older sister Kathleen had Mauras computer for 3 months and did not look at it as was posted here.

I don't understand this. Are these statements where you are "just guessing" ? Because they're pretty bold statements to be making.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't understand this. Are these statements where you are "just guessing" ? Because they're pretty bold statements to be making.

Yeah, I wondered that, too, at first, but I think he is, in fact, "just guessing."

hi all ,go back one sentence on my quote.'just guessing here'Maura was not alone at the bank etc...Beagle thank you for the input.yes i am just guessing and reasoning.the bold statement again considers where did Maura work .did she work at more than one gallery.why did she not tell her family where she worked ,where her clinicals where ,what her class schedule was .4 1/2 years after Maura vanishes and this is still not available.i am still looking for another missing persons case where this information is not public knowledge.Brianna Maitland black lantern etc..was something found on Mauras computer when Kathleen and mrCarpenter had it . Anne please call me take care keep digging philip

BeagleBart wrote:

What happened to Vasi's clothes that he was wearing when he was taken from the scene by ambulance?

I'll go ask him, back asap, depends how soon he responds, thanks

I often wonder what a thread like this can accomplish. Everyone has questions of different kinds. Many posters criticize the apparent direction that some posters' questions imply. There are a few skirmishes from page to page – but, ultimately, over what?

No one here is going to accuse a specific person of having abducted Maura. I doubt this thread is going to find her alive. Few of the "facts" (used in a relaxed sense) discussed are new. There is mainly just a re-hash of old "facts." And the accuracy of many, if not most, of those facts is disputed anyway. For example, Kathleen had the computer. Kathleen did not have the computer. Isn't this the kind of fact that should have been established beyond dispute years ago?

Everyone has a question or makes a comment, but almost no one spreads out anything like a unifying theory. As far as I can see, there is only one real theory - which still needs lots of examination - that can explain everything from start to finish. And that theory gets attacked simply for being more complete than any phantom or implied theory. Simply asserting that Maura was abducted in Haverhill or that the police lied at one point or another does not come even close to being a useful theory. Fragment, yes; theory, no.

Even if all posters were happily in accord with one another, it is hard to see what can realistically be accomplished under even the most cooperative and dedicated circumstances. It's a little like trying to solve a crime by having a cocktail party. Nothing against cocktail parties, but there are obviously better reasons for having one.

I'm not putting anyone down or being cynical. I'm just not sure what we can actually DO. Most of the old "witnesses" are tired of talking and are zipped up permanently now. Newspaper accounts, while valuable in some ways, are hardly rock-solid factual.


I don't see how discussing the same things over and over for years is going to – putting it bluntly - lead to a body, which is what is necessary. I don't see many new facts being put on the table. Apparently, no family member or close friend of Maura's is saying much, if anything, and maybe for very good reason. How many posters on this thread have met Maura? For example, I was surprised that Helena – no reflection on her – had never met Maura. If Helena has never met Maura, who has? One or two? Ten or twenty? I have no idea.

Is there any reason a family spokesperson and/or LE could not say, just one time, whether or not they would like this discussion to continue? And if so, in what way is it valuable?

Should this thread continue on in the sort of aimless direction it has been taking? Or should it be more organized? Or both? More like a team-work thing? Less organized?

I know that half or more of this thread's posters are transplanted from the XM site, and it appears that many of the non-XM'ers that were posting here have pretty much evaporated – quija and Wowser to name just two.(Maybe quija is on vacation in Wellfleet.:)

I'm not saying there should be no discussion. I'd just like to know what we're supposed to be accomplishing. Hopefully, it's something positive.

Any thoughts? Ideas?

BeagleBart wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks, but if I cannot go to the police, for reasons I've already stated, and if I cannot trust a PI, for unstated but solid reasons, and if I cannot indict someone myself, which I sure cannot do, then the only choice I have is to get him or her to come to me.
It may be unlikely, I suppose, but somewhat possible that the perp or perp's confederate was in my backyard a couple of nights ago. So my address stands.
Those who want to apply pressure to Haverhill, hoping someone there will come forward, well, that's your perogative. But I'm applying it, a little differently, where I think the problem is - between Bellows Falls and Amherst/Northampton. I'm just not expecting them to "come forward" in the same way.

Thanks for explaining that. I'm still trying to understand what happened to you as I did not post or read on MMM for awhile after Christmas time. And I'm putting things together from things you've said indirectly. I hope to understand as I reread.

Well, it seems YOU'VE been doing a lot of digging lately, and so has Just/Paris, and Whiston, and lord knows I've been finding out interesting things.

Whiston, I kept reading and got your gist eventually. Slow as toad today, sorry for the misunderstanding. I get it now!

Annnnnd, I never finished my thoughts to you, Beagle. Twould seem to me that we're still learning things. Hopefully as we continue to learn, we'll be able to have enough facts to come up with more concrete theories than "is in hiding/ran away/was abducted" which, given the paucity of facts, is pretty much as specific as a theory might be able to get yet.

I know that Helena, for one, is not against further discussion and digging--as far as I can tell, she's all FOR it. She simply couldn't maintain the site any longer. No reason to see that as a call to dissuade us.

In many ways, even if they don't post, I suspect it actively ENCOURAGES family members to see us still out here hashing away at things. This way they know we're still looking.

which we are, fred. Promise.

FireCat wrote:

Annnnnd, I never finished my thoughts to you, Beagle. Twould seem to me that we're still learning things. Hopefully as we continue to learn, we'll be able to have enough facts to come up with more concrete theories than "is in hiding/ran away/was abducted" which, given the paucity of facts, is pretty much as specific as a theory might be able to get yet.
I know that Helena, for one, is not against further discussion and digging--as far as I can tell, she's all FOR it. She simply couldn't maintain the site any longer. No reason to see that as a call to dissuade us.
In many ways, even if they don't post, I suspect it actively ENCOURAGES family members to see us still out here hashing away at things. This way they know we're still looking.
which we are, fred. Promise.

Thanks, Firecat (really excellent name, I have to say). I appreciate your response. Respectfully, though, would Whitson agree that Helena, only as an example, is "all for it?" The diggining, that is. It keeps coming back to the Haverhill re-hash v. the Amherst blackout. That seems to be the stone in the hoof more than anything else. How to resolve it?

Also, has Maura's case been brought to the attention of the Vidocq Society in Philadelphia?

Would there by any interest in or merit to having something similar? Maybe a meeting once every month or two or three? I know it's impossible for some because of distance, but maybe not for others. Perhaps have a speaker or discussion leader? Maybe even a referee in case time-out corners have to be assigned? Just a thought.

I know this is a little off-topic, but I just learned that my cousin Randy Howes (Thomas Randolph Howes (Howes is my middle name)) has been rescued in Columbia, South America. He and two other Americans, were taken hostage over five years ago. There are tears on my cheeks. If they can be rescued, anything is possible. Maybe it can serve as a little inspiration. Again, I know it is off topic, but nothing has made me so happy in a long, long time. Later, maybe a lot later. Peace.