Where is MAURA MURRAY

EWB/Snowy:

I hope that neither of you are leaving, don't know what this is about, other than it is a rough go here. Hope you will reconsider as Maura needs all the help she can get.

red truck at gallery and red truck at Stage Stop Store, one in the same, this seems a quantum leap, and obviously there is information unknown to me that could lead a person to come to this conclusion.

I think it important to weigh the behavior of the red truck driver witnessed by RO. The intial impression he left her with was one of fear and suspicion. Given that initial impression I have always felt this driver was a predator and on the prowl. The truck driver did not give me the impression of waiting for someone specific, or that he was a look out. Just my opinion.

I believe that the truck driver might have been detered from picking up anyone there by W's husband being in the laundry mat.

Suzanne wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks, that explains the two different dates.

Yup, you're welcome. Apparently it was so much fun to film they did it again!

peripeteia wrote:

I believe that the truck driver might have been detered from picking up anyone there by W's husband being in the laundry mat.

If you are talking about the laundry mat in the store I don't think it would be possible for a driver to know that someone was in there due to it being in the basement with no roadside windows.

good morning~

it is very difficult, frustrating and time-consuming to attempt to respond to others whose views are fixed and immovable.

Shack's lengthy post at General Discussion/p. March 20 8:56P, p. 64 represents, to me, a basic position born of suspicion.
suspicions, as opinions, can be endlessly argued. facts cannot.

defaulting to the dynamics of the past prevents progress.
finally, a few days ago, some compassion and apologies were extended to WW.

Shack, and "the founding mothers" (a less perjorative term than "old timers") have attributed "sins" by certain groups of people, who have become consistently and willingly "blamed"....especial ly LE and local residents, in general. individual local residents are targeted, as well.

Shack's summary, while cathartic to her, is accusatory to many others.

expressing heartfelt compassion for Maura and her family is kind, but is it unhelpful for individuals to overidentify and personalize the experience.

to all, please ~

LET NO ONE HIDE BEHIND MAURA MURRAY'S NAME TO MAKE A CLAIM FOR YOUR OWN GOODNESS WHILE CASTING A NEGATIVE LIGHT AGAINST OTHERS.

i believe it is pretense to speak on behalf of Maura.

i know that Maura is someone else's "child", not your own.

as strangers, you do not share Maura's physical, emotional and intellectual characteristics.

her disappearance and/or potential loss is only indirectly yours by way of your interest and presence. there is no "ownership" of this young woman; she does not belong to strangers.

maintaining a fixed view prevents collaboration.

social allegiances and emotional attachments prevent open-mindedness.

open-mindedness is necessary in considering the innumerable possibilities relating to Maura's disappearance.

open-mindedness is also necessary in accepting tolerating others.
invariably, as Ben Franklyne reminds us, the messengers are shot along with the message. we are ALL guilty.

i can believe Helena's health was affected by her involvement with a previous forum.
to a much lesser extent, my physical health is being affected, as well. perhaps i do not mesh well with this highly intense and interactive format.

the subject of Maura's disappearance is worthy, but i feel the obstinance, undertones and hostility are wearing.
accusations flow in all directions and by everyone. no one is exempt.

i apologize for my contributions to perceived negativity, as interpreted by my willingness to be direct, and to seek at a deeper level the hairball, so to speak, that prevents progress over 5 years.

JMO that the red truck driver's "unstealthy" behavior makes him seem like someone who was looking for a person he lost.

If the red pickup was on BHR, as Columbo said, pulled over and was out of the vehicle by the woods, it really sounds like someone ran away from him.

Still curious about footprints on Marrotte's property.

Did Fred smoke cigarettes? Was he drinking alcohol in moderation in 2004? Did he drink beer? I think we heard that Maura wasn't crazy about beer.

Like many families, IMO, alcohol was a part of their lives; from various articles (which I know can be totally inaccurate --- i was just 180 degrees misquoted in yesterday's paper!!!), it seemed like Maura enjoyed alcohol, her mom and Kathleen did, and her dad enjoyed it when he was younger.

Mason/Fred, thanks for giving thought to my post. I just do not get the feeling that Maura was picked up by a perp in that neighborhood. IMO, in general if anyone was harassing, stalking, or blackmailing Maura, she'd go to Fred to fix it.

I'm just at a low point, so forgive me in advance. I think there are some who have confused the fact that Maura's family cannot divulge details regarding her disappearance, which conitinues to metasticize into a family of hidden secrets, and worse, obstruction of justice.

For example...Kathleen was targeted yesterday for not cooperating with the contents of Maura's car and computer. We've all seen the photos of the contents of Maura's car at the Wells River Motel, an the pi's requested a copy of the computer hard drive and were denied.

Perhaps the "founding mothers" were just better at understanding the dilemma the family faces in the quest for information on a public forum, Information that can only flow one way.

No hairball.

We're the cesspool.

LE and the PI's are the Liquid Plumber.

like EWB, i am reluctantly called back, in my case, by Shack's erroneous conclusion in response to my tireless effort to communicate clearly.

please keep in mind that my mentioning my community at all stemmed from a direct question about whether i feel reasonably "safe" from crime in my community.

Shack's indirect reply on another forum:

"Recently in the Topix Postings, there was made mention to the effect that Haverhill would appear to be a town in which there might be "one way in and one way out".

in fact, I was describing MY TOWN and MY COMMUNITY as having entrance and egress by "one way in and one way out". NOT HAVERHILL.

she went on to appropriately describe "access" in the Haverhill area.

...and writes:

"It is indeed a small community, however the many roads within, are like a lab rat maze and only locals would know those
inner roads, as to exit/egress. An outsider could be still still driving around in circles trying to get out. The Towns/Precincts roads have a spider web like formation. "

in these instances, when imprecise language and meaning is misinterpreted and falsely attributed, then perhaps i have failed to communicate very well.

mcsmom wrote:

I'm just at a low point, so forgive me in advance. I think there are some who have confused the fact that Maura's family cannot divulge details regarding her disappearance, which conitinues to metasticize into a family of hidden secrets, and worse, obstruction of justice.
For example...Kathleen was targeted yesterday for not cooperating with the contents of Maura's car and computer. We've all seen the photos of the contents of Maura's car at the Wells River Motel, an the pi's requested a copy of the computer hard drive and were denied.
Perhaps the "founding mothers" were just better at understanding the dilemma the family faces in the quest for information on a public forum, Information that can only flow one way.
No hairball.
We're the cesspool.
LE and the PI's are the Liquid Plumber.

mcsmom,
I'm sorry if I posted upsetting speculations. What I was trying to say was that in a close family a strong mom, dad, bro, etc. will often take on the role of being the "go to" person for problems that come up. There's nothing wrong with that. That's the sign of a strong family. But it appears that something -- maybe incomplete disclosure (or something totally different)-- caused LE to withhold information from the family. Whenever I had a car accident, etc. my wonderful bro and dad helped or even took charge. I have no idea what they would say to LE if they were in Fred's shoes. All I was speculating was that Fred, like any good dad, was trying to help his daughter in some way, and an unforeseen problem arose, that Maura disappeared, and that it was difficult to figure out how much to reveal of it, if the dad wanted the case to be taken seriously.

mcsmom wrote:

I'm just at a low point, so forgive me in advance. I think there are some who have confused the fact that Maura's family cannot divulge details regarding her disappearance, which conitinues to metasticize into a family of hidden secrets, and worse, obstruction of justice.
For example...Kathleen was targeted yesterday for not cooperating with the contents of Maura's car and computer. We've all seen the photos of the contents of Maura's car at the Wells River Motel, an the pi's requested a copy of the computer hard drive and were denied.
Perhaps the "founding mothers" were just better at understanding the dilemma the family faces in the quest for information on a public forum, Information that can only flow one way.
No hairball.
We're the cesspool.
LE and the PI's are the Liquid Plumber.

perhaps i am logical enough to recognize that this entire conversation about 'finding Maura', with all of its surrounding nuances, will remain a conundrum...complete with the appearances of ill will, suspicion, and accusations due to the necessity of operating with only partial/factual information.

i immediately understood and still sincerely appreciate the dilemma that exists between having to hold information where it belongs in an active investigation against revealing details that may not belong in the public domain and/or would be harmful to the ongoing investigation.
for the most part, i've advocated for the former.

if you and others recognize the tumbling downward aspect of how the Murrays are being portrayed as "...to metasticize into a family of hidden secrets, and worse, obstruction of justice.", then it can be reasonably assumed these communities of forums may be harmful to Maura Murray/family.

here we find a double-edged sword, and assume it cannot work both ways.

i will boldy suggest that if PIs desire to monitor and informally tapp the public for information via community forums...then the individuals who regard themselves as 'semi-private investigators' and venture guesses many times a day about Maura's disappearance can hardly be held liable, in most instances, to potentially obstructing justice given they are working from a paucity of factual information.

as a further consequence, it is likely the conversations will proceed without resolution, even in the face of diligent and creative efforts,...for the very reason that facts are, appropriately, limited to family and the proper authorities.

that said, withholding information is a tease to those who are 'sleuthing' with all good intent, and a frustration for others who see the overview and recognize lack of progress.

i'm becoming convinced that there can be no consensus of opinion achieved and that reasoning will remain a circular endeavor by the very nature of the task.

with this understanding, i can release myself and others from any expectation to achieve more than has already taken place.

peripeteia wrote:

red truck at gallery and red truck at Stage Stop Store, one in the same, this seems a quantum leap, and obviously there is information unknown to me that could lead a person to come to this conclusion.
I think it important to weigh the behavior of the red truck driver witnessed by RO. The intial impression he left her with was one of fear and suspicion. Given that initial impression I have always felt this driver was a predator and on the prowl. The truck driver did not give me the impression of waiting for someone specific, or that he was a look out. Just my opinion.

Could we please hear some more about the red truck at the gallery. Because I just read this for the first time a couple of days ago. Is this 'old' news that I somehow totally missed. For those who seek an Amherst connection this could be something to ponder.

elsewherebriefly wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks Anne,
I am leaving once and for all with your kind words.
Just the other day I was thinking to myself how blessed I've been, especially this past year and yes you are absolutely right.
Yes, I will admit that Maura's disappearance has been very unsettling for me. I am 5'7", 125 lbs., my hair is much like Maura's, and I travelled those same routes alone quite a bit for a number of years.
It could have been me and I think of my family being told, "Oh, she ran away and started a new life", while they plead with LE and the public that I wouldn't do such a thing year after year. But, that's moot at this point.
I regret the opinions of the private investigators for the Molly Bish Foundation and the expert criminal profilers are not what people want to hear.

EB, Snowy, and everyone else too,

Take some time off, if you must, but please return. We've squabbled at times, but I respect and value your contributions and will miss them if you don't come back.

I think the frustration of hitting the 5-year anniversary with no solution in sight coupled with a bit of a drought in intriguing, if not promising new ideas, has left everyone feeling depressed. In that state of mind it's easy to feel like all of your efforts and contributions have been for naught.

I've noticed an increase in the level of personal criticism and attacks since the fifth year anniversary and I think it has far more to do with the increase in unfocused depression and frustration than it has to do with what someone may have said. People want to vent and though they may or may not be aware of it, they're looking for an excuse to pick on someone. They see an opportunity and they pull the trigger without thinking how their remarks might offend and wound the targeted person.

People pulling the trigger need to consider the Golden Rule before they type and people on the receiving end need to realize the attack has less to do with the person attacked than it has to with releasing pent-up steam from the frustration produced by our lack of progress.

I believe each of us genuinely wants to figure out what happened to Maura. Some of us believe she was a victim of foul play. Others believe she committed suicide. Still others believe she started a new life somewhere. We have so few facts to work with that it's not only impossible to prove any of these theories, it's also impossible to disprove any of them. I think the opinions we hold are based primarily on projecting our own fears and emotional wounds from growing up in families, managing our families in adulthood, and raising our children.

I joined this forum to help solve the mystery of what happened to Maura only to discover that my quest has turned into a search to find myself. I wonder if any of you have experienced this realization?

CONTINUED

I do think we've reached a point where most of us realize there is little more that we can do unless we are provided with new information. We're stale and there doesn't appear to be much to be gained by kicking the same old battered can around the yard.

During the past few days, I've been thinking about proposing a new plan of action that might lift our spirits and contribute something positive to the larger issue of helping families who have lost a child to handle the experience a little easier. I'm going to post the question this way.

What have we learned from this experience that might help others to cope with the unsolved disappearance of a child?

Some possible subjects to consider might be:

a. interaction and relationship with police, the media, and the local community;

b. what to expect emotionally and how to manage it so that you and your family are not consumed and destroyed by the loss;

c. would new legislation be helpful;

Definitely a short list, but I just want to get something started. I admit that I know little about what has already been done by other organizations, so forgive me if those topics have been covered.

Thoughts??????????

Snowy White wrote:

i
i can believe Helena's health was affected by her involvement with a previous forum.
to a much lesser extent, my physical health is being affected, as well.

I thought Firecat was crazy when she said the forum contributed to Helena's very serious illness. I have since done a total volte-face. And I now agree with her. I understand completely now how stressful these forums can be and how they can subtly and sometimes not so subtly erode your health.

quija wrote:

i was just 180 degrees misquoted in yesterday's paper!!!

This is what I have been saying like a broken record - if SBD told the same facts to five different reporters, then what you would see printed would be five different stories.

Suzanne wrote:

<quoted text>
I thought Firecat was crazy when she said the forum contributed to Helena's very serious illness. I have since done a total volte-face. And I now agree with her. I understand completely now how stressful these forums can be and how they can subtly and sometimes not so subtly erode your health.

i'm convinced it is the sustained back and forth that is cumulative and unhealthy.
if i owned a parrot, it might tell me to STFU for my own sake, at the very least.

Mason wrote:

I do think we've reached a point where most of us realize there is little more that we can do unless we are provided with new information. We're stale and there doesn't appear to be much to be gained by kicking the same old battered can around the yard.
During the past few days, I've been thinking about proposing a new plan of action that might lift our spirits and contribute something positive to the larger issue of helping families who have lost a child to handle the experience a little easier. I'm going to post the question this way.
What have we learned from this experience that might help others to cope with the unsolved disappearance of a child?
Some possible subjects to consider might be:
a. interaction and relationship with police, the media, and the local community;
b. what to expect emotionally and how to manage it so that you and your family are not consumed and destroyed by the loss;
c. would new legislation be helpful;
Definitely a short list, but I just want to get something started. I admit that I know little about what has already been done by other organizations, so forgive me if those topics have been covered.
Thoughts??????????

Something positive. Awesome. I'm all for the perpetuation of hope.

Suzanne wrote:

<quoted text>
This is what I have been saying like a broken record - if SBD told the same facts to five different reporters, then what you would see printed would be five different stories.

Oh god yes! At LEAST 5, lol.