Where is MAURA MURRAY

Missed the discussion on the other forum until just now...have extracted some quotes...gotta' run, but this one by Mason is excellent...happy to share it:

"Peri,

You're forgetting that Fred Murray filed his lawsuit in late 2005, approximately 18 months after Maura disappeared. At that time, the NHSP still considered her to be a missing person. The State did not reclassify her case as a criminal investigation until later.

The critical point that I focused on was the NHSP's refusal to tell Fred Murray anything during the 18-month period that Maura was officially considered a missing person.

Police generally are more willing to share information about a missing person with the missing person's family than would be the case in a criminal investigation unless they believe there is a possibility that the missing person fled because she was afraid of someone in her family. This is the point that you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge, Peri. This point is fatal to your argument.

In other words, your entire argument is 100% bullshit.

Also, even though you and I agree that Maura probably is dead and a victim of foul play, I must again point out that the NHSP's decision to reclassify her case as a criminal investigation does not mean the NHSP ruled out that she's alive or ruled out suicide. Police don't have to rule out two out of three possibilities to classify a case as an investigation of the the third and final possibility.

Your saying that when the NHSP reclassified her case as a criminal investigation it did so because it ruled out that she's alive and ruled out suicide makes as much sense as someone saying before the reclassification that its initial decision to classify her case as a missing person meant it had ruled out death by suicide and death by foul play.

Your reasoning also is fatally flawed by your stubborn refusal to consider the effect of his lawsuit. By reclassifying her case as a criminal investigation, the NHSP had a much stronger legal argument against disclosure. The trial court's order after the Supreme Court's reversal of its first order and the remand to reconsider his arguments in light of its opinion resulted in the trial court denying him everything he wanted except for a few trivial and unimportant matters that he could have cared less about. Therefore, he did not win anything except an expensive bill for legal services.

I've pointed this out to you several times, but you keep repeating the same bullshit argument over and over as if by mere repetition you will somehow convince everyone you are right.

You have about as much of chance of convincing anyone with a brain that you're right as you would have convincing your neighbors that the Earth is flat if you stood on a street corner in your neighborhood and screamed over and over that the Earth is flat.

It's irritating, annoying, and the more you repeat it, the crazier you sound.

Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle. Enough already!

Come on ducks! Your arguments are now peripathetic.

Can any one of you walk and chew gum at the same time?

I suppose you could summon Sophie Bean. She's always good for a bunch of screams."

WHITE WASH wrote:

I disagree especially since CW was not
named a supect by LE only in the minds of some.
Nor do I find it professional for a PI
to post such findings on line!
What's good for goose is good for the gander FireCat.
We can agree to disagree on this point!
<quoted text>

Guess we shall.:)

Good to see you back. Hope all is well....

by peri at p. 101 11:20

"Fred's abili has been checked, he has never been interrogated as a suspect in Maura's disappearance, questioned yes, but not as a suspect as his alibi checked out. Information comes from the family. I am certain law enforcement initially suspected Fred, Billy, other family members and friends, however when that did not pan out LE moved forward."
********
so information about Fred's alibi has been related directly to you from "the family"?
which person(s)?
you are certain Fred's alibi has been checked? and that he has never been interrogated as a suspect?

i've been sick to my stomach since day one, duck meat is very greasy.

Snowy White wrote:

Why did Maura delay in getting her driver's license until 20ish? Unusual under most circumstances.
Is it possible her father was a force of excessive force/discipline? Might he have valued his vehicle as much as his daughter....such that her wrecking his car was a heated topic/issue?

For one thing, she went straight on to West Point, where she wouldn't be allowed to have a vehicle, or even leave campus for a while. This might have had a whole lot to do with it, IMO. If you're not going to be allowed, why bother?

I do have a colleague whose 21 year old daughter is just now learning to drive. In her case, it's a matter of rampant environmentalism. She bikes or takes public transport almost everywhere, because she's conscious of her carbon footprint.(she's also vegan...it's a whole lifestyle for her). Not saying that this was Maura's reasoning AT ALL. Just saying that while it's weird, it does happen for numerous reasons.

My assumption that in Maura's case her immediate relocation to West Point had a lot to do with it.

Anne wrote:

Sara, I have been involved with Maura case about 4 and a half years. I never considered FM a suspect. That may be partially as I know LE question family first for involvement before moving on to others.
While I'm hear for any newcomers, FIT refers to a light moment members of the MMM were jokingly referred as Fit by Weeper,(forum in training) as investigators. Ducks were a fun night when a family member ran petrified from what she thought were attack ducks. Despite the betrayal by many these were things that lightened moments of tension, along with the tent, we went willingly or jokingly were sent by a moderator. It was a way of sharing in a real sense and releasing pent up anguish and frustration. I think it is important to know this as these symbols are continually desecrated here. It helped us be productive.

Not to be mean but I havn't seen any enlightenment in this case of who took her or if she is even alive, my question is how has any of this been productive?

sophie bean wrote:

<quoted text>
Got a daughter, Mason? I expect not.
Got empathy, Mason? Certainly not.
It's called grief, Mason. Apparently something that you've never experienced. He talks about his daughter as if she's missing and he's afraid that he will never see her again. Apparently you find it "unclean" and somehow perverse that a parent would be so upset over the loss of a nearly adult child.
Would it be more or less tolerable to you if a parent had actually had an adult child who was murdered, and who expressed similar grief and outrage?
If you have proof of anything, as self-proclaimed "officer of the court" -what are you doing here?
Why are you not presenting your fabricated proof to LE, as you are obligated to do as a self-proclaimed "officer of the court"?
Are you a defense attorney for someone with something to hide, Mason?
Doing a little pre-emptive trying of the case in the court of public opinion?
Ever hear of this thing called disbarment, Mason?
That is, assuming that you actually are a lawyer. We've seen nothing but your assertion to prove that claim.
Oh, I forgot - you "work with serial killers."
My mistake.

Gee Sophie you are right on the money today, not that you have not held this believe from the get go, I have maintained my silence on the issue of identity for sometime, until it has become blantanly obvious, but since I have been banished to hades, all bets of dignity and decorum are off.

The serial killer association and Mason's fasination with sexual dysfunction and blaming Fred have become overty obvious. I crossed referenced serial killers mentioned by HIS SELF, to be an ESTEEMED lawyer, and associated with the aforementioned, this is total poppycock.

But we can see this for what it is, everyone on the net gets to say what they want, but words belie often who people say they are, and tell a story.

Fred L/Mason: the story you paint though your words is anything but pretty, and no need for a freudian analysis to make that assessment of the inner workings of your mind. You would scare a child, you have scared me, and there is no up end scenario here, other than you are distrubed. Very distrubed, and have an agenda.

Who is paying you?

I hope someone is paying you, then perhaps you are not as sick as is perceived.

The court of public opinion, is not looking so good in your defense, so post your associations with the said serial killers or balarney on you, and that said, even the presence of proof of your associations with the said, still at the end of the day, you are very creepy. Good luck with providing the information.

It should take you less than 3 minutes if took to finds Fred's address because you are SO famous, unlike Fred who is just a working joe, with a missing daughter.

Ironically, I searched for hours for your association with serial killers, nadda! Ziltch!
But perhaps you are an undercover, deep undercover associate with serial killers? The internet doesn't seem to know YOU. ODD!

In the final analysis I don't care, a rat's @$$
because you are beyond the beyond, however, those reading here of the defamation of Fred's character
need to know that the source of this information comes from a very distrubed individual.

Johnny Bravado wrote:

<quoted text>
earthburner (aka "Mastermind"),
Despite the fact that it's been at least 2-3 months since I've even logged onto or posted anything in this forum, you are sadly still so deeply distraught over me publicly explaining the truth about you being a sincere cowardly loser in every noteworthy aspect of life that you think obsessively over me throughout every single day of your life, which you prove to everyone in nearly every single post you make regardless of how irrelevant I am to the context of the posts. You and I both know that each and every time that you look in the mirror, you see nothing but a shameless coward. You will never respect yourself, nor will anyone else who knows you intimately. Given the content of your posts, how could you? You and I both know that you have to live with this every single day of your sad life, and the fact that I brought this truth out by simply analyzing your posts eats you alive. Every single statement I've made in this summary thus far can also be applied to your boyfriend, "Benjamin Franklyne", who is one of the only people alive as dreadfully pathetic as you and who also obsesses over me to such an absurdly repugnant extent that he also repeatedly mentions my name in posts that I have nothing to do with on a forum that I haven't visited in months. The only difference between the two of you is that Benjamin Franklyne accepts the fact that he has always been a cowardly loser with no friends or social life his entire life and is content with the fact that he will remain this way for the rest of his sad life while you, on the other hand, are still attempting to come to grips with this reality. I suggest you seek advice from Benjamin Franklyne on how to be content living such a cowardly life, and then perhaps you won't cry and obsess over me, which, by the way, I find quite flattering. I advance my most sincere pity to the two of you.
For the rest of you, most of whom I respect, you may recall that I was attempting to interview the SBD in Florida. I cannot and will not discuss anything that took place, especially in an open, public forum, and particularly in this open, public forum. However, I will say that any information that was learned was passed on directly to both the NH LE and a 3rd party with ties to this case (I cannot elaborate on that party for obvious reasons). I hope that those of you with genuine concern for Maura and the Murray family are satisfied in knowing that any and all information I may have gotten was given to the appropriate authorities. My recent experiences have rid me of any desire I had to post on these forums, so I don't have any intention of posting again. To those of you who share the same genuine concern for Maura and the same sincere desire to solve this case as I do, I hope you understand my position, and I wish you the best of luck.

ok that is just plain stupid when earthburner calls you out and you havn't posted in months but within minutes you see the message and post, thats just really funny bravo hahahaha

Snowy White wrote:

by peri at p. 101 11:20
"Fred's abili has been checked, he has never been interrogated as a suspect in Maura's disappearance, questioned yes, but not as a suspect as his alibi checked out. Information comes from the family. I am certain law enforcement initially suspected Fred, Billy, other family members and friends, however when that did not pan out LE moved forward."
********
so information about Fred's alibi has been related directly to you from "the family"?
which person(s)?
you are certain Fred's alibi has been checked? and that he has never been interrogated as a suspect?

Absolutely certain, no doubt. I am not obliged to reveal which family member, but will leave this to the family member if they wish to reveal this information. Asked the question and was answered by email this past week.

Sorry not to post the source, but the question was asked in confidence after your posts, and knowing that Mason would be back with an attack on Fred, and the recent distrurbing geocities postings. I took the opportunity to ask a number of the family issues of misinformation regarding the investigation AND involvement of Fred Murray in his daughter's disappearance. I know that my answer be boo hooed, I accept the flack and fall-out.

I know too that if LE believed Fred had anything to do with Maura's disappearance or was hidding information, the investigation would have taken a much different approach, and they would be hounding the life out of Fred, and LE has done anything but leave the family in the cold, like so many other families.

In a way I don't fault LE, I know they work with too few resources, and are understaffed, overworked, have little access to resources for forensic analysis and fight the tide of lack of evidence and ever mounting crime.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
And you're someone who taught at a law school that closed, and is under investigation, because of monetary scandal and accusations of fraud. Weren't you an associate dean there when that happened?
Unlike what you've said about Weeper and Columbo, these are FACTS.

I was one of two whistleblowers who were fired without cause for exposing that the Dean and the Assistant Dean were running a Ponzi scheme stealing student loan money. The Assistant Dean also was running a scheme awarding grades for sex.

The other whistleblower is a highly respected former circuit court judge named John John T. Daughaday. Our efforts produced a civil RICO lawsuit filed in federal court against the Dean and bthe Assistant Dean. The case was settled three months later and we were reinstated with full backpay.

Unfortunately, the new school (Barkley School of Law) born out of the former school (American Justice of Law) was multiple millions of dollars in debt due to the financial misdeeds of the former Dean and Assistant Dean. The new school collapsed under the debt and was unable to renew the contracts of all faculty members on August 31, 2008. It ceased operations effective December 31, 2008, and is now in bankruptcy.

Fortunately, Judge Daughaday (who was appointed Interim Dean of the Barkley School of Law) and the rest of the faculty, including me, were able to help all but a few of our students transfer into other law schools where they are performing very well academically.

Our faculty was rated exceptional by the ABA.

Principles matter to me and my students mattered to me. I will live or die by my principles, doesn't matter which outcome.

I doubt you can say the same.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
For one thing, she went straight on to West Point, where she wouldn't be allowed to have a vehicle, or even leave campus for a while. This might have had a whole lot to do with it, IMO. If you're not going to be allowed, why bother?
I do have a colleague whose 21 year old daughter is just now learning to drive. In her case, it's a matter of rampant environmentalism. She bikes or takes public transport almost everywhere, because she's conscious of her carbon footprint.(she's also vegan...it's a whole lifestyle for her). Not saying that this was Maura's reasoning AT ALL. Just saying that while it's weird, it does happen for numerous reasons.
My assumption that in Maura's case her immediate relocation to West Point had a lot to do with it.

unusual/flimsy excuse? obtaining a driver's license is a heralded 'right of passage' to independence.
transportation is an asset for summer employment.
i'm stuck here.

Mason wrote:

<quoted text>
So, you're one of the authors of the she's-alive-and-living-with-a- hunk-in-the-Province-of-Quebec letters.
Better call the cops and let them know because I'm sure they want to verify that statement.
We aren't playing Clue here.
That's showing in the theater across the street.

Again I say you stated she is dead well I ask again how do you have so much information about Maura? Did you kill her?

above posting should read, member of family,
issues, and NOT number of family issues

only asked one family member questions regarding Fred's alibi and whether or not he was suspected and interrogated as a suspect in Maura's disappearance,

sorry for the error.

peripeteia wrote:

<quoted text>
Gee Sophie you are right on the money today, not that you have not held this believe from the get go, I have maintained my silence on the issue of identity for sometime, until it has become blantanly obvious, but since I have been banished to hades, all bets of dignity and decorum are off.
The serial killer association and Mason's fasination with sexual dysfunction and blaming Fred have become overty obvious. I crossed referenced serial killers mentioned by HIS SELF, to be an ESTEEMED lawyer, and associated with the aforementioned, this is total poppycock.
But we can see this for what it is, everyone on the net gets to say what they want, but words belie often who people say they are, and tell a story.
Fred L/Mason: the story you paint though your words is anything but pretty, and no need for a freudian analysis to make that assessment of the inner workings of your mind. You would scare a child, you have scared me, and there is no up end scenario here, other than you are distrubed. Very distrubed, and have an agenda.
Who is paying you?
I hope someone is paying you, then perhaps you are not as sick as is perceived.
The court of public opinion, is not looking so good in your defense, so post your associations with the said serial killers or balarney on you, and that said, even the presence of proof of your associations with the said, still at the end of the day, you are very creepy. Good luck with providing the information.
It should take you less than 3 minutes if took to finds Fred's address because you are SO famous, unlike Fred who is just a working joe, with a missing daughter.
Ironically, I searched for hours for your association with serial killers, nadda! Ziltch!
But perhaps you are an undercover, deep undercover associate with serial killers? The internet doesn't seem to know YOU. ODD!
In the final analysis I don't care, a rat's @$$
because you are beyond the beyond, however, those reading here of the defamation of Fred's character
need to know that the source of this information comes from a very distrubed individual.

Google me: Fred Leatherman, attorney.

Then we'll talk.

Mason wrote:

Earthburner,
Thanks for posting these letters. Everything he wrote is bullshit, which I know is why you posted them. I can't help myself. Please stop me! I can't stop.
"My daughter, Maura Murray, went missing after a one car accident on February 9, 2004 at approximately 7:00 PM while she was heading east on Route 112 near North Haverhill, New
Hampshire. Eye witnesses place her at the crash site at one (1) to two (2) minutes before the
local police arrived and no one was seen to stop and pick her up in a vehicle. This means that
when the police reached the scene Maura could have been no further than a couple of
hundred yards up the road around the first corner walking away. Another witness who stopped and talked with her reported to the police upon their arrival that the driver of the
car was a young woman of approximately twenty (20) years of age. He added that he thought she had been drinking. There was an empty beer bottle found in the car and in addition,
there was a spider hole in the driver’s side of the windshield indicating that she had struck her
head at impact. The temperature that evening was twelve (12) degrees.
Given these known facts it was grossly negligent of the police to not dispatch a cruiser in
active pursuit in a spirited effort to retrieve an unsuspecting and vulnerable girl with a possible head injury and subject to hypothermia because of alcohol and frigid temperature
before she wandered into the pitch black of the national forest looming just ahead.
The police had full knowledge that if she were to encounter someone with ill intent that she
would have no place to hide, no place to run and absolutely no help available. Furthermore,
duty as well as common sense obligates the police to call ahead to the next town in the
direction they had to assume she was heading. They knew they had not passed her as they
drove east to the accident site during their response to the “911” call. The Woodstock police
were not notified nor asked to send an officer to intercept her by driving west in the direction in
which she was approaching.
She was figuratively and nearly literally “right there” readily available to be rescued and saved
from whatever fate has befallen her. All that the police had to do was to expend minimal
mental and physical effort and my daughter, Maura would be safely here with me today. But,
unfortunately, the police neglected to make even the most basic effort to find her, and I remain
without her now and perhaps forever.
Aside from the fact that his facts are not supported by the evidence and he he knew it when he wrote this garbage, he talks about his 22-year-old daughter like she's his wife.
Now that is one very sick and very disturbed dude.
I feel unclean after reading that letter.
Come on people!
How sick is that?
You know what's worse?
He doesn't even realize it!
That blows my mind!

you know what blows my mind is how smart you think you are..key words are you think

If you call it you'll find it's Laurie's not Fred's.

jmlh wrote:

<quoted text>
Within 3 minutes I was able to find F.M.'s address and phone number. wasn't hard at all.

FireCat wrote:

<quoted text>
For one thing, she went straight on to West Point, where she wouldn't be allowed to have a vehicle, or even leave campus for a while. This might have had a whole lot to do with it, IMO. If you're not going to be allowed, why bother?
I do have a colleague whose 21 year old daughter is just now learning to drive. In her case, it's a matter of rampant environmentalism. She bikes or takes public transport almost everywhere, because she's conscious of her carbon footprint.(she's also vegan...it's a whole lifestyle for her). Not saying that this was Maura's reasoning AT ALL. Just saying that while it's weird, it does happen for numerous reasons.
My assumption that in Maura's case her immediate relocation to West Point had a lot to do with it.

What age are you allowed to drive in MA? What age did she enter West Point?

Mason wrote:

Seriously, rereading Fred Murray's letters made me sick to my stomach.

Seriously which senior center did you say you were in as I would like to come see you and bring you a fruit basket, some ensure, and some prunes

OH MY wrote:

<quoted text>Again I say you stated she is dead well I ask again how do you have so much information about Maura? Did you kill her?

No.

I've never been in NH, VT, or ME. I spent 5 months in Boston in 1972, after I graduated from law school. Then, I moved to Chicago and two-years later to Seattle.

The last time I was in New England was 10 years before Maura was born.

White Wash wrote:

Really?
I disagree how many contacted the bus
company for his trip to wild cat and what
school he was driving for.
How many people have clocked the trip to Lincoln
for CW how about certain people posting about his
children where they went to school.
How about Weeper following CW and parked out there hours taking notes of
who is coming and going?
Do you want to discuss Weeper's chat with CW's girlfriend at the time?
Speaking of smelling like BS!
<quoted text>

Smells like the work of a PI to me.

Tell us about the interrogations, lie detector tests and search warrants issued by police on inviduals, what was LE picking on people for telling the truth? Or because something a PI said to LE. It is unlikely LE's only source of information was the PI's, they obviously found cause to interrogate witnesses and extend the arm of the law to gather the truth.

One sided, n'est pas?